Shades of Gray

[Susie570]

Are SOOOOO confusing!! :/ It's made even worse because there are different standards depending on breed and what country you're in.

Does ANYONE have access to a good, simple (none of the ee/aa/bb/cc stuff lol) description of what defines the different shades of gray??

I've looked and looked for the information online and what I DO find, I end up with my eyes crossed because they start talking about the alphabet soup of genetic codes which makes no sense to me. I don't want a degree in genetics, I just want to know...

WHAT DEFINES THE GRAY SHADES??? lol

What EXACTLY defines a lilac as a lilac? What do you look for VISUALLY (not genetically)? An 'opal'? 'Smoke'? Pearl? Steel? Blue? Black? and the other shades of gray names?

The one thing I THINK I understand about it, is that gray pops up because of a 'dilute' gene, but that means nothing when you're trying to look at a gray bunny and tell someone what color it is.

HEEEEELLLLLP

 

[Dood]

Have you read this post? post239422.html?hilit=%20George#p239422

 

[Susie570]

Have you read this post? post239422.html?hilit=%20George#p239422

I had not seen it, but just read it.

If you add self (aa) to a chestnut coloured rabbit you get blacks = aa B_ C_ D_ E_

This does not tell me how to identify the different shades of gray. For example, one might say "A Viennese Pickleater has the following features: Inside of ears - light green, tip of tail - dark green, bottom of feet - orange, Hair shafts - dark green at base, light green in middle, white tips etc."

I mean, everyone seems to know what color a 'blue' rabbit is, or at least they seem to think they do, but so far I have not seen ONE exact explanation of how they come to that conclusion, or the other various shades of gray :/

Edited to add: I've seen a few random, useful comments on other sites. I was told that ALL 'lilac' and 'blue' rabbits are considered 'self colored' (even if it's a broken pattern), so the inside of their ears are dark, like the dark areas of their coats. Since then, I've been told that my buck is 'blue' after saying that the insides of his ears are light pink.

I've been told that 'otter' means, basically 'tan highlights' ??? I think....

Agouti means the hairs have distinct color bands on the shafts.

Those are some of the most precise pieces of information I've gotten regarding color.

 

[Zass]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think grey is chinchilla color in flemish, agouti in dutch, and not a color in any other breed?

So which breed's "grey" are you interested in?

 

[Dood]

I think your buck is a sable agouti :shrug: and defintely not a self blue for the reasons you mentioned

__________ Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:27 pm __________

This website is well organized with a chart like system for organizing the colours and has links to pictures of real rabbits - http://www.nockrabbits.com/coat_colors.html <br /><br /> __________ Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:35 pm __________ <br /><br />

I was told that ALL 'lilac' and 'blue' rabbits are considered 'self colored' (even if it's a broken pattern),

I think you might be confusing the "common names" of different coloured rabbits and the different colour locus

It is true that all rabbits called "blue" should ACTUALLY be called "self blue" because you can have blue agouti, who's common name is "Opal", or a blue sable, who's common name is "smoke pearl", or you can have blue torts no common name, or blue chinchilla who's common name is "squirrel"

 

[akane]

What are we calling grey? Much of what you mention is not really close genetically so you've got a random sampling of colors of which none are specifically called grey.

First all rabbits are black, blue, chocolate, or lilac. Then they can be self black, self blue, self chocolate, self lilac or agouti black, agouti blue, agouti, chocolate, agouti lilac, or black sable (regular sable/siamese sable), blue sable (usually called smoke pearl), chocolate sable, lilac sable.... Many of those have their own color names depending on breed. Chestnut is the most common name for black agoutis and opal is the most common name for blue agoutis. This is why we talk in genetics instead of color names. What exists in one breed may not be at all the same in another breed. Genetically a castor mini rex and a chestnut of another breed are pretty much the same. The rex coat and some other minor differences changes how it looks but it's still the same base genetics for both. The wool breeds are very different when it comes to sable or shaded colors so we really need to know what breed in order to talk in color names. Then we need to know what all you are calling grey. Grey would most often be applied to the chinchilla colors. Blue is blue to most people, not grey, whether it's self blue, opal, smoke pearl....

You might want to get a SOP (standard of perfection) from arba.net . It describes the basic colors for each breed and what details they should have. It actually drives me crazy that they don't use any gene descriptions lol

 

[Susie570]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think grey is chinchilla color in flemish, agouti in dutch, and not a color in any other breed?

So which breed's "grey" are you interested in?

My buck is an American mini lop, if that helps!

__________ Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:16 pm __________

I think your buck is a sable agouti :shrug: and defintely not a self blue for the reasons you mentioned

__________ Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:27 pm __________

This website is well organized with a chart like system for organizing the colours and has links to pictures of real rabbits - http://www.nockrabbits.com/coat_colors.html

__________ Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:35 pm __________

I was told that ALL 'lilac' and 'blue' rabbits are considered 'self colored' (even if it's a broken pattern),

I think you might be confusing the "common names" of different coloured rabbits and the different colour locus

It is true that all rabbits called "blue" should ACTUALLY be called "self blue" because you can have blue agouti, who's common name is "Opal", or a blue sable, who's common name is "smoke pearl", or you can have blue torts no common name, or blue chinchilla who's common name is "squirrel"

The 'common names' thing makes sense. There it's so much to learn about it all. I will look at the link. Thank you for the help.

__________ Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:21 pm __________

Oh! And could you please give a quick description of the attributes of a sable agouti? Is it sable because he has some tan shadowing to his 'gray' areas? Sorry if I'm being so ignorant! <br /><br /> __________ Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:38 pm __________ <br /><br />

Then they can be self black, self blue, self chocolate, self lilac or agouti black, agouti blue, agouti, chocolate, agouti lilac, or black sable (regular sable/siamese sable), blue sable (usually called smoke pearl), chocolate sable, lilac sable....

I understand what 'self' means. What indicates agouti or sable? Or chinchilla? Smoke, opal and pearl?

Then we need to know what all you are calling grey. Grey would most often be applied to the chinchilla colors. Blue is blue to most people, not grey, whether it's self blue, opal, smoke pearl...

I'm saying 'gray' because I don't know what else to call it. See this little hopping bunny icon :bunnyhop: ? That's about the same color gray as my buck, but he's a broken, not dutch pattern.

 

[Sagebrush]

If your bun looks like the hopping bunny emoji then I would say that he is a broken blue. Having not seen a picture of him, I am shooting in the dark here.

 

[curelom]

I understand what 'self' means. What indicates agouti or sable? Or chinchilla?

I've been trying to figure out rabbit colors since I joined RabbitTalk, so I'm really a beginner on this, but I can share some of what I've figured out so far. (More experienced people, corrections/clarifications/elaborations would be welcome!)

It helps me understand what's going on when I think of a wild-type rabbit as sort of a "default" rabbit--unless it has recessive traits, or modifiers that change its appearance, a rabbit's going to be a chestnut agouti.

An agouti is kind of the opposite of a self. The individual hairs on an agouti have bands of color, while the individual hairs on a self are a solid color. An agouti also has white markings in certain places. Like on a wild rabbit.

A chestnut agouti (wild-type) looks brownish, I think? (but has flecks of lighter/darker colors because its hairs have banding). There are a number of other colors of agouti rabbits. A rabbit with chinchilla coloring is a type of agouti; the bands on its hairs will be colored a bit differently than on a chestnut agouti, though. It can be a greyish rabbit (depending on its specific colors, as the chart Dood linked you to shows), but will also have flecks of lighter and darker colors like the chestnut agouti, instead of being a solid shade of grey.

I found a site that has pictures of Holland lops of different colors, and says what they are, and which ones of the colors are agouti and which aren't. I don't know how similar/different the terminology is between Holland lops and mini lops, but I found the site to be instructive. http://www.amysrabbitranch.com/Info-ColorGuide.html

And there's a whole bunch of other genes that can modify what everything looks like. And terminology can vary depending on breed and whatnot. So beyond that, I'm pretty much lost. :| The more I learn about rabbit genetics, the more I realize I don't know!

 

[Susie570]

Ding ding ding! We have a winner! Comparing the detailed information and pictures from the two websites, it appears that my boy is a broken blue chinchilla. I don't know if that's a legit color or not, nor do I know if it's thrown off by the insides of his ears being light, but everything else fits! And, there's a picture of my smug looking boy in my Facebook Album linked on the litter thread and my other genetics thread. I tried to insert a picture from my phone but it's too big.

 

[Sagebrush]

Knowing now that he had white on the inside of his ears, that tells me that he was going to either be chinchilla OR an Opal. Those are both agouti based "blue" colors.

 

[Susie570]

Knowing now that he had white on the inside of his ears, that tells me that he was going to either be chinchilla OR an Opal. Those are both agouti based "blue" colors.

I ruled out opal because he doesn't have a dark undercoat on his belly. Now that I'm back at my computer, I can link in a couple of pictures.

 

[curelom]

He's a handsome boy.

 

[Susie570]

Scarlett's son looks like he's shaping up as a Blue Otter, if I'm correct? Basing this on the tan that is starting to show up on its ears and legs. 10 days old today. <br /><br /> __________ Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:37 pm __________ <br /><br />

He's a handsome boy.

Thank you, he certainly thinks so, as I'm sure you can tell.

 

[Zass]

Vienna marked opal. Opal looks similar to blue otter, but it will have tan ticking in the fur, and adults will have ring color.

 

[Susie570]

Vienna marked opal. Opal looks similar to blue otter, but it will have tan ticking in the fur, and adults will have ring color.

Interesting!! The kit looks pretty different from when it first started getting fur.

 

[Zinnia]

Very CUTE. I agree... a Vienna marked Opal.

 

[Sagebrush]

Love the look of that little kit! I have a few opals in my current litter with Misia. I will try to get some pictures of her 1 week old kits versus the 8 week old that I still have of hers. The 8 week old is also a vienna marked.