Shades of Black

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Zinnia

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The doe is a Tort aa Bb C_ D_ ee. Buck is REW Aa BB cc Dd EE.

There's a 50% chance of this doe carrying cchd and a 50% chance she's got another copy of C.

When I first saw this little litter of 4, I thought she had two Chestnut, a Black and a Blue. But, now the Blue is looking much more like Black.

I'm guessing she carries Chin and one of these Black is Self Chin. Maybe one of the Chestnuts is a Chin, too. Too early to tell, but this is interesting.



 
Thank you for such a wonderful and obvious example of different colored ears! I can actually see it in your picture! :lol: (I read through the color/genetic posts but still don't have a clue, a lot of times they look so similar I can't tell the difference :oops: ).
 
Steel was a thought, but I've had far too many litters from him to think he'd be. The kicker is that the doe's sire was a Steel. But, she's obviously a Tort, so no question there.

If one of these kits turns out to be a Steel, I'll be in trouble!! SERIOUSLY! I just sold some as CERTAIN not to be. I'll be paying for it!

I honestly think the chance is zero.

Here's his record....

Bred to Aa---ee, he produced mostly Chestnuts, Opals, REWs and less often a Blue or Black. This breeding was done twice.

Another doe, Aa---ee produced the same, exactly. Far more Agouti than Solid. This breeding was done twice.

With a doe that was aa---ee, he produced 1/3 Agouti, 2/3 Solid.

With a doe that was AA---Ee, he produced all Agouti and REW. This breeding was done three times.

No questionable kits at all. The only way he could have hidden Steel in these kits so well is by hiding them only in his REW.... But WHY am I shaking in my boots!


I have experienced different shades of Solid colors often. But, never quite this contrast of Black. The one looks much darker than most I've had and the other much lighter. The darker one has an earthy hue and the lighter one a chalky blue hue. I read that Self Chin colors might sometimes express bluish (or rather lack of yellow). Oh, PLEASE let that be it!

__________ Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:01 pm __________

You know what? I'm going to stop worrying. Here's another thought. He's a couple days old. From birth to now he's changed to be much darker than he was. I'm recalling many a REW that looked pink longer than his siblings. They even out within a few days. Maybe this is just hair coming in slower. <br /><br /> __________ Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:36 pm __________ <br /><br />

I'm nervously talking myself out of concern for Steel. There is a nearly equal difference in the two Agoutis... and therin lies a clue. Those white ears are proof enough to me that they are not Steel, yet there is that same color difference.
 
Oh Zass, I sure hope Steel cannot be true. I could barely sleep thinking about it, remembering I just sold two out if this buck "guaranteed" Steel-free to help clean up another breeder's Self lines.

That and.... my best cow lost her tail yesterday... my avatar. :( Apparently another cow stepped on it while she was getting up, as it appears pulled off. My heart just hurts for her. I know there wasn't anything I could have done to prevent it, but still. She's the heart of this farm and although we doctored her up, I couldn't sleep knowing she had been hurt.

OK, back to the kit... So, I ran out to the barn this morning thinking surely, he'll be catching up in his color now. No. He's not. In fact, today it seems clear to me that the Black is the darkest I've ever seen and the other looks like the darkest Blue I've ever seen. I remember hearing that some gene could cause super dark kits, once thought to be Es that was responsible, but later believed to be an entirely different factor.... I have dealt very little with Self Chins because I tried to stay away from Chin in my FA, so maybe I just don't know what Self Chin can look like at birth?? Although I know I must have had them, I don't recall paying attention to them. I just culled the self from any parents I knew hid Chin...

In some light, I swear it's Blue. In other light, Black.

FYI, the dam's mom was aa Bb Cchd Dd Ee and the dam's sire was Aa bb Cc Dd Ese. Dam is surely a Tort
The sire's dam was Chestnut (I've seen pics....not Steel) and his dam is a REW with no evidence of any Steel or suspicions of for at least three more generations back.

He has a record of litters with good percentages of clean Agouti (as opposed to more "Self" looking kits than average for the pairings, which would have me suspicious). I'll need to look back, but I know I have even more litters from him. I realize that with up to half of his overall kits being REW, it would take twice as many to see the averages... But, boy I think he must have sired at least 100 kits!
 
Wow, that poor cow, getting her tail torn off!! It sounds horrible! I hope she heals up well. She is very lovely...what breed is she?

Sorry, I don't want to hijack your thread....back to discussing black bunnies! Hopefully it isn't steel making it look strange... :clover:
 
Awww, thanks. She's a Jersey. A polled mid-sized miniature. Her tail is actually healing up pretty well. I'm considering weaving horsehair into her remaining long hairs to make a longer tail to swish the flies away.

On the kit.... I think I'm seeing a Black Self Chin (I hope!). i'll change my mind a dozen times before I know for sure, though. But, Steel would be a serious long-shot with this buck.
 
the one on the top looks to be chestnut, the one on the bottom looks to be chin. :) Time will tell if I am correct or not. :)
 
Zinnia":2we92pjn said:
Awww, thanks. She's a Jersey. A polled mid-sized miniature. Her tail is actually healing up pretty well. I'm considering weaving horsehair into her remaining long hairs to make a longer tail to swish the flies away.

My initial thought was Jersey, but her black face made me unsure. How tall is she? I had a Dexter years ago that was a great homestead milk cow. She produced about 3 gallons a day, which was too much for my family, but got me into cheesemaking. Her back was about 4 feet tall, or maybe even a little less.
 
Update on the Agouti is they are both Chestnut... I was hoping one would turn up Chin, so I could say Self Chin was more likely the Black difference in the two solid ones. But, no. Still a chance of Chin of course, but I can't confirm it.

The two Black kits still do look different, with one being Bluish. <br /><br /> __________ Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:26 am __________ <br /><br /> Well, I think I have it figured out. The blueish Black rabbit now has grayish eyes instead of brown. This kit is likely Black Self Chinchilla. Interesting that the lack of yellow in Chins is evident as newborns.
 
heritage":yy2ihior said:
Thank you for such a wonderful and obvious example of different colored ears! I can actually see it in your picture! :lol: (I read through the color/genetic posts but still don't have a clue, a lot of times they look so similar I can't tell the difference :oops: ).


Don't feel like the lone ranger ..... I'm glad the colors in my herd are simple .... they confuse me enough as it is.
 
Looks like you got an chestnut, opal if it's blue based or a self chin. I don't really know for sure in some of the photos it looks like a blue based rabbit and in others it looks black based but it's definitely agouti based.
 
They are a Self, Extension rabbit with cchd instead of C. They are supposed to look exactly the same as a normal Self Black, but may have lighter eye color. I read that since Chins have no yellow pigmentation, you may be able to tell them apart because of the cooler hue. This is the case with my litter. The Black Self has the yellow pigmentation and looks normal, while the Black Self Chin (differing only in cchd) looks cooler with it's bluer hue standing out as the yellow is missing in Chins. Many, many Self Chins are passed along as Self. I have sorted mine in the past when I discovered them through breeding. This is the last line of Chin I have in my Self lines.
 
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