setting up commercial barn maybe!! advice?

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MN gets very humid in the summer and the evaporative system works fantastic. We do have a large barn and are pulling tons of air over the curtains then out of the barn very quickly though. I am talking about a barn that is 60' wide and 600' long with 13 48" fans at one end of the barn and the cooling curtains at the other end. I dont really see why it wouldnt work on a smaller scale though.<br /><br />__________ Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:05 pm __________<br /><br />One thing confusing me. Are you saying you can only pay 2-3 dollars for 50 pounds of pelleted feed? If I am reading that right you are way off you will never find feed near that price.
 
Buying your doe from one place.. Most of the time they have 3 differnt lines that they are working with... If you bring in from different places... You will get into sickness.. I have done it been there. I have learned my lesson on that one. You can get a buck from a dfferent source .. Dont start off big,, THAT is another problem. you should be keeping back your own does to build up your herd slowly. Inbreeding is good .. Not a bad thing. If you have a good line that gives you good weights on kits.. you keep that line going. Here i have not problem getting 40 does from a breeder..
 
DonnerSurvivor":2zkkbiug said:
MN gets very humid in the summer and the evaporative system works fantastic. We do have a large barn and are pulling tons of air over the curtains then out of the barn very quickly though. I am talking about a barn that is 60' wide and 600' long with 13 48" fans at one end of the barn and the cooling curtains at the other end. I dont really see why it wouldnt work on a smaller scale though.

__________ Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:05 pm __________

One thing confusing me. Are you saying you can only pay 2-3 dollars for 50 pounds of pelleted feed? If I am reading that right you are way off you will never find feed near that price.

i'll have to look into that cooling system more.

and yes. thats what my math says anyways. i need to call the places and get current prices though. hopin they are higher then what i saw online.<br /><br />__________ Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:45 pm __________<br /><br />
Mary Ann's Rabbitry":2zkkbiug said:
Buying your doe from one place.. Most of the time they have 3 differnt lines that they are working with... If you bring in from different places... You will get into sickness.. I have done it been there. I have learned my lesson on that one. You can get a buck from a dfferent source .. Dont start off big,, THAT is another problem. you should be keeping back your own does to build up your herd slowly. Inbreeding is good .. Not a bad thing. If you have a good line that gives you good weights on kits.. you keep that line going. Here i have not problem getting 40 does from a breeder..

ahh. that makes sense.

i understand about line breeding but i didnt want to run into inbreeding problems either.

yes i was doing math for 100 does because that is what my investor guy was saying. so i will be showing him that and then math for 40 does. which is what i'll probably go with. need to go over the math for it though.
 
80$ per ton of pelleted feed is not close to the real price of pelleted feed (thats 2 dollars per 50 pounds) Good quality alfalfa is around 250 dollars a ton so a feed company would have to buy the alfalfa grind it mix it with mineral and form it into pellets. Even buying in bulk I doubt you will find high quality pelleted feed for less than 12-13 dollars per 50 pounds.
 
Ohiogoatgirl

One question. Where did you come up with that figure for a 50lb bags of feed for $2? Probably the cheapest you will find will be $12/13 per bag. The cheapest is not the best to raise meat rabbits.
 
ohiogoatgirl":itfsto0c said:
i understand about line breeding but i didnt want to run into inbreeding problems either.
.


You only run into inbreeding problems when you start with poor stock, keep back things you shouldn't and don't cull hard. There was a discussion, where we talked about how many generations rabbits can be inbred, it's way more than people think. So far, the line I have has been inbred for four years. The problems came when I started out crossing. Now that I purified my herd of that line, the kits I have now are far superior than the ones I had last spring. I culled whole litters last spring.
 
You only run into inbreeding problems when you start with poor stock, keep back things you shouldn't and don't cull hard.

I completely agree with this. i run an 18 hole rabbitry so i don't have a lot to work with. i've never outcrossed to another line; all my rabbits get bred back to their mom/dad/grandaughter/grandson eventually. cull hard and you won't have problems.
 
ohiogoatgirl":35lded0k said:
100 does and 15 bucks. average litter is 7-11. sooo.... 100 x 7 = 700..... prices for here are 0.80 to 1.20 per pound and at 4.5 to 7lb per rabbit.... average lets go low with 4.5lbs... so 4.5 x 1.20 = 5.40 ... and 4.5 x 0.80 = 3.60.... so 3.60 x 700 = $2520 .... and 5.40 x 700 = $3780

20% for him = $504/756
40% maint. = $1008/1512
40% me = $1008/1512

1*feed needs 100 does*
growouts will need about 13# feed to make weight. so 13x number of growouts... 13x700= 9,100 ..or.. 13x1100= 14,300
breeding does need ~9oz feed per day. 9x30=270/16= ~17# feed per doe per month. so 17x100=1,700
bucks need ~4oz feed per day. 4x30=120/16= ~8# feed per buck per month. so 8x15=120
9100+ 1700+ 120= 10,920# feed per month
at price needed to buy feed to make any money ($2 per 50#) that would cost... 10920/50= 219 bags. 219x $2= $438 per month in feed.
..or.. 14300+ 1700+ 120= 16120# feed per month
16120/50= 323 bags. 323x $2= $646 per month in feed.

Using your bag figures

219 bags=$2847 (Not $438)
323 bags=$4199 (not $646)
If you are giving him 20% off the top/sales then his part will be as you stated

20% for him = $504/756
just feed = $2847/$4199
Your part = -$831/-$1175 + all other expences

You Can Not Give Him 20% of the sales for his part. It will be hard for the business to make 20% profit to start with. If he gives you enough money to get everything going, he will also need to give you enough money to run your place and feed your rabbits for close a year before he gets a penny of his money back.
 
One important thing i will like to get across here...After your set up and the rabbits are in.. It takes 8 months to get things rolling from breeding to kits and enough to ship out for sales ect... To get a routine down and rolling ,it takes 8 months,Make sure you have enough cash up front for extra food cost in the first few months.
 
Mary Ann's Rabbitry":s2lfq8ug said:
One important thing i will like to get across here...After your set up and the rabbits are in.. It takes 8 months to get things rolling from breeding to kits and enough to ship out for sales ect... To get a routine down and rolling ,it takes 8 months,Make sure you have enough cash up front for extra food cost in the first few months.


--You are right about this. It would be real hard to find 40 breeeding does for sale, much less a 100 that could have you a truck load of kits in 1 month. More than likely have to buy young fryer size and raise them for months before they can be bred.
 
this is how i got the feed price i used

*price per pound*
going price here is 0.80-1.20 for fryers... i need to get feed at $3 for 50# to almost break even with the low price... eek!
3/50= 0.06
13x0.06= 0.78

2/50= 0.04
13x0.04= 0.52

1/50= 0.02
13x0.02= 0.26
 
ohiogoatgirl":16987dth said:
this is how i got the feed price i used

*price per pound*
going price here is 0.80-1.20 for fryers... i need to get feed at $3 for 50# to almost break even with the low price... eek!
3/50= 0.06
13x0.06= 0.78

2/50= 0.04
13x0.04= 0.52

1/50= 0.02
13x0.02= 0.26
Thats not what I was asking---You might NEED to buy it that cheap But Where can you go and buy feed for $2 to $3 for 50lb bag?? Do you think this is possible?
 
OGG - you also haven't mentioned a contract between the two of you ... you will need one and will need an attorney to look it over for you ... another $500 start up cost. Is this person to be an investor that will be paid off and have no further interest in the business, or will this person be a partner of the ongoing business? There is a difference in how you want to structure the deal for each type. If he wants to be an ongoing partner, be very specific about what areas his decision will be sought and what areas are your pervue only!

When structuring your contract, you will want to have it in writing that he will receive his pay-back from the net profits, not the gross profits. That way, until you are up and running and have a steady processor, you don't have his overhead, and when you are getting ramped up to meeting the processor capacity you still won't show a profit for several months to another year! If the business shows a net profit before the 3rd year, then you will be doing very well.

Another thing is to value your contribution of the land use, your time and EXPERTISE and you will need to figure a paying wage for yourself ... whether or not you take that wage ... which can be charged off as your ongoing investment into the business. The land use can be set up as an ongoing expense for the business, or can be part of your contribution valuation.

Have you considered how the business' taxes are going to be setup? I suggest that you consult a CPA for structuring and helping set up your record keeping. Another $500+ startup cost. You also might be able to get a good deal on them filing your quarterly tax reports from your records ... which means they will want QuickBooks or Quicken so you can send them in electronically.

Realize this: you seriously don't want to show a profit for the first few years. I also think you are underestimating your livestock production as far as your animal down time and losses ... it is probably going to be closer to 10% at any one time ... does that don't take on the first breeding and need to be preg checked 2 weeks later, cycling them into the next breeding ... kit losses at weaning, does lost to birthing deaths, etc. On your taxes, you only take off the value of the doe and the loss of progeny for that year, but the company realizes a loss of the lifetime of the doe (about 3 years.)

Something else you might have figured out from what I have suggested is that your "bring to the table" value may very well amount to a significant portion of what the investor is willing to invest. You want this as each partner gets a portion of the net profit/tax burden according to their portion of the initial investment.

Another item for you to consider. Information sharing with your investor. Honestly, you need information (consultations with professionals) to make certain recommendations that he simply does not need to know, nor should he know about them. One thing I have learned with the businesses I have been involved in, DO NOT TRUST YOUR PARTNER further than their interests lie ... his will lie with money and profits, yours will lie with livestock and profits. I am not saying don't treat him as if he is out to steal you blind, but to protect yourself, you need to keep your "business" to yourself and this goes back to what kind of partnership you two will have. In fact, is he aware of your membership in this forum and that you are discussing details here? That could backfire in the future if you two have a disagreement over something.

Now, I am not an attorney, nor a CPA, but I have owned my own businesses, and I have been involved in the startup of 3 other successful businesses. These are items that you should take into consideration. So, don't feel like the lone ranger in this as I have my very own "rabbits for processing" file and have located the land that has a former pig growout barn on it that I am interested in growing into :p
 
Fire-Man":19omuc8w said:
ohiogoatgirl":19omuc8w said:
this is how i got the feed price i used

*price per pound*
going price here is 0.80-1.20 for fryers... i need to get feed at $3 for 50# to almost break even with the low price... eek!
3/50= 0.06
13x0.06= 0.78

2/50= 0.04
13x0.04= 0.52

1/50= 0.02
13x0.02= 0.26
Thats not what I was asking---You might NEED to buy it that cheap But Where can you go and buy feed for $2 to $3 for 50lb bag?? Do you think this is possible?

i dont know how much bulk rabbit feed is going for at the 2 places i can get it. going to be calling tomorrow.

the numbers are just me seeing for those prices how much i would need to buy feed for to make it worth it selling at those prices.
 
ohiogoatgirl":2y8f5qrq said:
i dont know how much bulk rabbit feed is going for at the 2 places i can get it. going to be calling tomorrow.

the numbers are just me seeing for those prices how much i would need to buy feed for to make it worth it selling at those prices.

OK, Let us know what you find out!!
 
my brain is about to explode y'all :x :shock:

s l o w i t d o w n....

*deep breath*

ok i have no clue about anything legality wise about the contract between us, etc. i've not thought anything about it and i dont plan to until i figure out everything else first to know if i can even think about actually doing this.

i do not have the brainpower to think about all the legal things like contracts and paperwork and taxes right now. i'm 100% clueless in that area anyhow.

right now i am ONLY trying to find out approx. price for building, cages, and stock, and feed cost to start and then avg of what it will be per month.
i have to find out how much this all will be (about) before i can decide if i'm even doing it or not to worry about contracts and taxes and the billion other things. i will concentrate on that when i know i can do this at all.


yes i'm NOT planning on a huge 100 doe rabbitry right off the bat. at most it would be 40 does. i just got one drawing for the barn done up. i want to draw it another way too and see which would be better. for space management and all.
 
Ohiogoatgirl can I offer some advise? Instead of trying to re-invent the wheel yourself, why don't you Listen to someone that already has a lot of experience doing this. You have received alot of GOOD information from some Good breeders but you seem to Ignore what they took time to tell you. One big breeder thats been doing this since the 1970's offered you some Great information---he told you earlier in this thread that he made about $2.25 per rabbit if he did everything proper(his words were if you do not stump your toe), but in your figures you are going to make way more than he said he made. If a breeder has been doing it for over 40 years I would feel Honored just to receive this information and Thank him highly instead of ignoring his info. He also told you that feed was $13.75 for 50lb, you turn right around and say you got to get it for $2 for 50lb. Now don't you think if he could get it for less than $13.75 he would have figured out where and how after all these years. You have ignored most of the info they gave you and I have noticed that none of them are taking their time to try to tell you anything now, because you do not listen/read. I personally feel you need to stop figuring crazy figures and go back and re-read your thread from the beginning and do not miss a word, maybe even thank some of them for their info--write down the figures they posted. I think if you will do that when you get back to this post you will have a better understanding of what you are heading into. Best Of Luck to you!
 
Fire-Man":39wqw2o6 said:
Ohiogoatgirl can I offer some advise? Instead of trying to re-invent the wheel yourself, why don't you Listen to someone that already has a lot of experience doing this. You have received alot of GOOD information from some Good breeders but you seem to Ignore what they took time to tell you. One big breeder thats been doing this since the 1970's offered you some Great information---he told you earlier in this thread that he made about $2.25 per rabbit if he did everything proper(his words were if you do not stump your toe), but in your figures you are going to make way more than he said he made. If a breeder has been doing it for over 40 years I would feel Honored just to receive this information and Thank him highly instead of ignoring his info. He also told you that feed was $13.75 for 50lb, you turn right around and say you got to get it for $2 for 50lb. Now don't you think if he could get it for less than $13.75 he would have figured out where and how after all these years. You have ignored most of the info they gave you and I have noticed that none of them are taking their time to try to tell you anything now, because you do not listen/read. I personally feel you need to stop figuring crazy figures and go back and re-read your thread from the beginning and do not miss a word, maybe even thank some of them for their info--write down the figures they posted. I think if you will do that when you get back to this post you will have a better understanding of what you are heading into. Best Of Luck to you!

:yeahthat:

__________ Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:11 am __________

--You are right about this. It would be real hard to find 40 breeeding does for sale, much less a 100 that could have you a truck load of kits in 1 month. More than likely have to buy young fryer size and raise them for months before they can be bred.[/quote]


AND THAT IS WHAT I DID... I bought fryers ..THIS takes time. I dont think she really knows the work involve in working 40 does.
 
Fire-Man":1rk8mtxp said:
Mary Ann's Rabbitry":1rk8mtxp said:
One important thing i will like to get across here...After your set up and the rabbits are in.. It takes 8 months to get things rolling from breeding to kits and enough to ship out for sales ect... To get a routine down and rolling ,it takes 8 months,Make sure you have enough cash up front for extra food cost in the first few months.


--You are right about this. It would be real hard to find 40 breeeding does for sale, much less a 100 that could have you a truck load of kits in 1 month. More than likely have to buy young fryer size and raise them for months before they can be bred.

I guarantee you.....YOU WILL NOT FIND, NOR BUY, 100 good producing does! To think this is even remotely possible is sheer folly. No rabbit person worth their salt will sell 100 of their good does. They would be selling their future. Your best bet for success is finding that raiser that has those 100 does and contract the top 150 fryers from his next round. 120 does and 30 bucks. If they are out of his best producers they'd be worth at least ten bucks a head. Pay half now and half on pick-up.

Give me thirty days and I could have you 100 breeding age does. Naturally, they'd be junk I pick up at auctions for 3-5 bucks a head. Of course, their "mark-up" would be 500%.

Feed @$2.00 per bag?? Point me in that direction. I'll buy 4-5 tons to begin with. I've got the storage facilities to handle that amount. That would be super-duper fantabulous! (BTW:my feed prices came down to $27.20 per 100#)

You have been given facts. You have been given "figures". You have been given knowledge acquired over a span of four decades. I don't know what else can be done to help.

EXCEPT MAYBE THIS: From the time a SUPER-DOE pops out of her mama, until the time comes for you to sell her offspring....A MINIMUM of 280 days must pass. 6 months for her to grow to breeding age is at least 180 days. She's bred!!!! Now add 31 days = 211 days. Super litter might hit 5.5 to 5.75 pounds in ten weeks....70 more days+211 days = 281 days. All of the above is not taking into consideration the "innate ability" of recognizing that "super-doe" when she's a fryer. That....OOG....comes from experience.

That is: If you don't stub your toe !

grumpy
 
Ohiogoatgirl----Other things that I have not seen mentioned is---say you get setup to 100 does "over time" and you do have 1500 kits of different ages in grow out-----whats the chances of the Buyer visiting your place and finding it filthy and Not Buy a One from you or for some other reason the buyer just drops you?? You need to talk to some of These Good People on here and ask that question. You talk about the truck coming by to pick up a load of kits---Have you talked to a buyer that will send a truck to you? How close is the closest buyer to you? If I did what you are figuring/wanting to do I would have to haul my load of kits 250 miles one way---that will sure eat up alot of my profit---sure can not put a few hundred kits in a suitcase and jump in a gas-saver car to deliver them. I would have to find out If I had to deliver 300 kits at one time How big of a truck/trailer I would have to have to do this and would it need to be air conditioned for the summer months and what kind of expence it will cost to set this truck/trailer up and to operate? Sounds expensive!
 

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