San Juan or Missouri Cottontail ?/

[fowlman33]

which one for a meat rabbit, hardy, and possibly sell some to local hunters ???

 

[hoodat]

Cottontails or any other type of American or Canadian wild rabbits are near impossible to cage raise. I've never heard of anyone who was succesful at breeding them in any saleable quantity.

 

[fowlman33]

Actually the Missouri Cottontail is raised very successfully in the Southeast...and in large quantities.

 

[Anntann]

You maynot be allowed to sell San Juans to hunters in most states. It's considered an invasive species by probably 1/2 the states. In fact, there are some places that won't even allow people to breed them. (BIG controversy over that).

There are a couple of yahoo groups, I believe, that are devoted to the San Juan. You might want to start there with your search for answers...I'm not aware of anyone on this board that raises them?

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

San Juans are the same rabbits we raise-- they just were permitted to go feral on San Juan Island when the economy there crashed many years ago--

 

[hoodat]

Thanks for clearing that up Terry. Nature will try to return any rabbits to the original wild state in a few generations if there is no human intervention.

 

[Anntann]

Terry, there are a number of states, particularly in the south, who have banned importation or release into the wild of the San Juans. they're not really the same. They come from the same genetics, but adapted to feral life, like the cottontails do in the states. When brought into the mainland and released, they have been found to take over the cottontail habitat. They are no longer "the same" as the European rabbit raised as a domestic.

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

No form of domesticated animal should be released into the wild-- especially if the 'wild' is not the indigenous areas of the genetics-- I am just pointing out-- San Juans are domestic genetics-- just not developed into specific breeds. Conntontails and our domesticated rabbits do nor share all their habits, but they do share food supplies. That is why in Australia, the introduction of rabbits was catastrophic-- there was a food supply, but no predators! Same is true of the Cane Toad--no natural controls--- In the uS, there are hardly enoug hnatural controls for rabbits in the agricultural areas- introduce a rabbit that does not 'look' the same, and the predator's 'search image' is fooled.

 

[eco2pia]

I gotta say, I agree with terry here about the San Juans. It is like saying a mustang isn't a horse--of course it is a horse, just a different breed, but genetically compatible, same species. They are feral, and selected by conditions for survival, but they are just rabbits.

I am not sure why everyone is so nuts for them--they are mutts, wild in temperament--sure they are hardy, but so is a good meat mutt. I always thought that if you just got some smallish agouti meat mutts, you would have pretty much the same thing from a hunter's perspective, with a lot less trouble?

Why would releasing them be any better/worse than releasing any rabbit? They will all go feral if they are young and haven't been handled a lot, right? And if you cage raise the San Juans for a few generations you will have to select for different traits (the ability to live and breed in captivity for instance) and you will be making them back into domestic rabbits fairly quickly, right? I just don't understand I guess--sure, loading up a bunch of wild caught rabbits and setting them loose somewhere is irresponsible and a dumb idea, but the same can happen even with domestic rabbits, we have all seen feral colonies I am sure--I have seen them all up and down the west coast anyway.

For the OP, I would suggest the smallish agouti meat mutt, unless your local hunter's have a good reason to want one of the other breeds. NZ crossed with a minirex for instance--seems like we have alot of those around here and the agouti color pops out often, and is easy to keep since it is the dominant color.

 

[Cattle Cait]

This sounds very similar to the issues going on right now with folks trying to rescue the feral, island-type goat breeds. Isn't this how the Enderby Island rabbit breed was "developed" though? You'd think a feral breed would be excellent for colony style breeding...

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

Supposedly, the San Juan smells like a cottontail-- and that is why the hunters want them, for dog training purposes. My animal Behaviour and Zoology classes tell me something different-- you start raising an animal in captivity-- it's 'smell' will change. It is believed that wild animals select their mates, by smell, based partly on what the potential males 'immune' smell is like ( seems to also help prevent inbreeding when there are a lot of males available- known as Kinship Recognition) Now, I don't know about you folks, but I can 'smell' the difference between a guy that is 'gay' from one that is 'straight' I can smell the difference between someone I would not want to hang out with versus someone who is 'safe' to be around. Take feral animals, domesticate them, you do change some very small, but important factors. As for the land races of other species--Most of the people who want them- want to preserve the genetics. I really liked my Barbados Blackbelly Sheep--I belong to a consortium dedicated to it's preservation. When I get more-- you can bet, the ewes will not be covered by another breed!

 

[fowlman33]

this seems to be a healthy topic so I will ask for some more advice.....tell me a good meat rabbit that "looks" wild, I have 2 small daughters and if I come home with some cute white and black, white, or white and brown rabbits, its not going to be pretty for me when I start "killing" these little rabbits for food .....

 

[eco2pia]

meat mutts. there are "wild" colored ones all over. agouti is the name of that color, and it is like yellow in dogs--pops up eventually if you cross breed. Cross a NZ with a rex or a satin, say, or a flemish...But someone out there near you has likely already done it, watch the ads and you will find some "brown" rabbits eventually...Or you could go with red-eyed whites--they aren't as cute to some...

All rabbits are made of meat. You don't need a specific breed, just don't pick boney ones!

__________ Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:33 am __________

also re: smelling different, I would think that would be a greater function of "lifestyle" than genetics...ie, what food is eaten, what sort of housing is used. for that purpose, colony raising rabbits in a whole lot of space might help...but then how would you catch them to sell them live?

also, for fowlman33, i have 2 daughters--they love rabbits, alive and fuzzy or fried on their plate...the nice thing about breeding rabbits is there are always new cute ones to replace the ones leaving for freezer camp. Knowing where your food comes from is good for kids. just only let them name the breeders!

 

[RunninMI]

meat mutts. there are "wild" colored ones all over. agouti is the name of that color, and it is like yellow in dogs--pops up eventually if you cross breed. Cross a NZ with a rex or a satin, say, or a flemish...But someone out there near you has likely already done it, watch the ads and you will find some "brown" rabbits eventually...Or you could go with red-eyed whites--they aren't as cute to some...

All rabbits are made of meat. You don't need a specific breed, just don't pick boney ones!

only problem with this is the domestic rabbits just dont smell the same it sounds crazy i know i doubted it when i was told but after breeding and training beagles for years i have seen the difference in a dog trained on somestic crosses and actual wilds. being from michigan where sanjuans are very much unwanted i have used missouri cottontails and they are very good they raise easy in hutch style cageing i didnt have luck in wire boz show style pens though. or a colony would be a good way to do it also. I would suggest missouri cottontails but you may want to check your local laws too

 

[eco2pia]

meat mutts. there are "wild" colored ones all over. agouti is the name of that color, and it is like yellow in dogs--pops up eventually if you cross breed. Cross a NZ with a rex or a satin, say, or a flemish...But someone out there near you has likely already done it, watch the ads and you will find some "brown" rabbits eventually...Or you could go with red-eyed whites--they aren't as cute to some...

All rabbits are made of meat. You don't need a specific breed, just don't pick boney ones!

only problem with this is the domestic rabbits just dont smell the same it sounds crazy i know i doubted it when i was told but after breeding and training beagles for years i have seen the difference in a dog trained on somestic crosses and actual wilds. being from michigan where sanjuans are very much unwanted i have used missouri cottontails and they are very good they raise easy in hutch style cageing i didnt have luck in wire boz show style pens though. or a colony would be a good way to do it also. I would suggest missouri cottontails but you may want to check your local laws too

huh. well there you go. you don't mess with what works i guess. i wonder what it is? maybe wild rabbits need to smell less and learn (are selected for) cleaner habits/less scent? likely only the beagle could truly explain it.

 

[RunninMI]

eco2pia i wish i could tell ya lol it doesnt make since to me and well the hounds have yet to learn to speak to explain it to me lol but if they ever do ill definatly tell you guys.

 

[hoodat]

eco2pia i wish i could tell ya lol it doesnt make since to me and well the hounds have yet to learn to speak to explain it to me lol but if they ever do ill definatly tell you guys.

Wouldn't do you any good. If they could talk they'd just say'"It's a dog thing. You wouldn't understand".