Riddle me this?!?

[TerriG]

Wtheck? We are 3 generations in on these satin torte does (finally have good mothering and personality!) and we have a surprise in the nest box. Both the buck and doe are raised out from our stock. We usually get Palaminos/Buff, Torte, and ermine, and then satin varieties of each of these. We have no dilute in our genetics.

We bred a first time satin torte doe to her sire. This is what we got:


We have never had a gray kit, but especially not this satin chrome look!


Hoping it is a doe!

For reference, this is a previous satin litter


One of the satin torte kits from a previous litter


One of our regular/non-satin litters

 

[Susie570]

I don't know if it's the lighting or what, but that kit almost looks electric blue. :shock:

 

[katiebear]

If it's not the lights that is one remarkable kit..very pretty. .I would definitely be keeping it.

 

[Dood]

My guess is Siamese satin - called sallander in other breeds - it's basically a torted chinchilla

And as Sky's the Limit likes to say " recessives are FOREVER " :mrgreen: go back through the pedigree and see if there is a common ancestor that could have passed it on - after 4 years of inbreeding my purebred AmChins (3 does and 2 bucks) I just got chocolate chinchilla kits :x they have one doe in common 3 and 4 generations back - the same doe who when test bred to my Flemish x and Mini Lop bucks was found to have self, REW and non extension :evil:

 

[twr]

Both the buck and doe are raised out from our stock. We usually get Palaminos/Buff, Torte, and ermine, and then satin varieties of each of these.

Well based on that (and assuming ermine is A_B_cchd_D_ee):

• You should also get the occasional sallander aaB_cchd_D_ee
• The mystery isn't so much how you got a blue-looking kit as how you got a self-looking one given that all your colours are ee.
• If you are thinking the blue-looking kit is blue self (aaB_C_ddE_), then the mystery isn't so much where the dd came from as how you got E_ given that all your colours are ee.

Does it actually look self, or is it noticeably lighter on the back? (I can't tell, it just looks shiny in the photo). What colour was the buck? Assuming the buck was also tort then a strangely dark sallander seems most likely.

Edit: Trying to clarify after Dood's query.

 

[Dood]

Both the buck and doe are raised out from our stock. We usually get Palaminos/Buff, Torte, and ermine, and then satin varieties of each of these.

Well based on that (and assuming ermine is A_B_cchd_D_ee):

• You should also get the occasional sallander aaB_cchd_D_ee
• The mystery isn't so much how you got a blue-looking kit as how you got a self-looking one given that all your colours are ee.

Does it actually look self, or is it noticeably lighter on the back? (I can't tell, it just looks shiny in the photo). What colour was the buck? Assuming the buck was also tort then a strangely dark sallander seems most likely.

Not sure what you mean as torts are self based and the dam is tort and was bred to her father who must carry self to produce a tort daughter :shrug:

__________ Tue May 12, 2015 5:06 pm __________

Do you mean it "looks" like a self ____ ?

If so then yes - Siamese Satins (aa B_ cchd_ D_ ee ) are unusually dark sallanders and could pass as Siamese sables (aa B_ cchl _ D_ E_ ) in other breeds

 

[ladysown]

looks like siamese sable.

 

[Miss M]

Um... I need that chrome kit. :fainting:

 

[twr]

Not sure what you mean ...
... Siamese Satins (aa B_ cchd_ D_ ee ) are unusually dark sallanders and could pass as Siamese sables (aa B_ cchl _ D_ E_ ) in other breeds

I meant that the blueish kit looks like aaE_ but can't be if both parents are ee. Given that the original poster mentioned dilute I was fixated on blue self, but siamese sable would have the same problem. If satin's general tendency to intensify colour can darken sallander to the point it looks like siamese sable I guess there is no mystery.

 

[TerriG]

I will have to get some pictures in the sunlight after this thunderstorm passes. It looks like it is just a solid color, like a satin gray/blue. Both parents are satin tort. I have seen others on rt mention "chrome" kits, but this is the first time I have seen it in person. It is quite striking. <br /><br /> __________ Sun May 17, 2015 11:47 am __________ <br /><br /> Updated picture from today (lighting still isn't great). Eyes are just starting to open. I have already been informed that this kit is staying no matter the sex it ends up being (that's from my husband!). We think he looks like a little koala bear.

 

[Miss M]

I have already been informed that this kit is staying no matter the sex it ends up being (that's from my husband!). We think he looks like a little koala bear.

Actually, it's my kit. It just ended up in your doe's nestbox somehow. :yes:

 

[TerriG]

Unfortunately, this kit died tonight. It, and one litter mate, developed some kind of enteritis. They were too young for it to be weaning enteritis. The rest of the litter looks fine so far. May have just been something genetic. We were looking forward to keeping it and watching it grow. It had a great personality. Very sweet and playful.

 

[Miss M]

Aw... I was really looking forward to more pictures as it grew up!