Rex + Mini Rex = ?

[GBov]

So I just got some beautiful Rex and in their peds there is Harlequin/tricolor which makes me happy as they are both something I have wanted in Rex for a long time.

However, finding a buck to bring that out is not as easy as I would like, hence my never having gotten the color in the first place. :lol:

I do have a buck that may carry what I want and am trying him right now but if he turns up no tri or harle, and as I am raising for meat and hides ONLY, what would I get if I got, say, a tricolor mini rex buck to cross with my does?

How much will the Mini change the first generation offspring?

 

[Dood]

Breeding to a Tri, you can get Harli and Tri in the first generation if your does are tort or sable point or frosty and in the second or third gen for most other colours

 

[Nymphadora]

Breeding to a Tri, you can get Harli and Tri in the first generation if your does are tort or sable point or frosty and in the second or third gen for most other colours

:hmm:

I personally find the sable points charming... haven't seen a frosty Rex in person yet, but I think I'd be ok if one popped up in my rabbitry, too! :mrgreen:

(I wouldn't be able to show them, sure... but what lovely coat colors!)

Good luck finding a suitable mate for your Harli/Tri's, GBov!

 

[GBov]

Sorry, I should have said, she is broken red, not tri BUT two generations back there is a tri and go back one more generation there is another tri.

My buck is red and may or may not be related or have tri or Harlequin in his line.

Mainly, how much of a size difference should I look for breeding a mini to a standard in the first generation?

I will, of course, give the red buck a try and see what we get - he gets no name until he proves himself - but if I got either a Harlequin or Tri buck in Mini, as they seem to be quite common, I should be sure of getting the color hides I want. Mmmmmmm love tri! <br /><br /> __________ Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:10 pm __________ <br /><br /> Have to ask, what is a frosty rex?

And already, not enough cages!

 

[alforddm]

Red is recessive to harlequin/tri so a red won't produce those except in rare cases where you have very minimally marked harlequin that is mistaken for red.

 

[GBov]

Red is recessive to harlequin/tri so a red won't produce those except in rare cases where you have very minimally marked harlequin that is mistaken for red.

Ah, so the red buck will not produce harl/tri even if he has it in him? Good to know.

I just sent an email to someone selling a tricolor mini doe to see if they have a buck to sell. It may be a stupid waste of money right now but life is so grim and rabbits are such good mood lifters.

 

[akane]

Red will produce tri/harli with tri/harli since it's recessive but it lacks the gene itself. Since red, tort, and related colors are recessive to harli they can't carry it but they will express it if the other parent contributes it. However, markings become much more random to minimal brindling when using such colors and probably would have better odds of good markings from a red than a tort cross. To just express harli rather than go for ideal show markings you can use anything with nonextension (ee) from the red/orange/fawn group of agoutis and all the types of self based torts. The amount of patches you get will vary from good quality versions that end up actually being self tort harlequins (just rare to have it happen) to obvious torts and reds you puzzle over a bit because they only have a touch of brindle striping somewhere.

Frosty sometimes shows up weird on a rex coat. You can get "ghost" mini rex. I no longer know of a good example pic of one but always thought they were extra interesting versions of frosty. It would have a chance of producing magpies instead if chinchilla nonextension rather than sable nonextension.

 

[GBov]

The seller only has a blue fawn tri for sale which is not what I want, I like bright red in tri.

Akane, I will read your post a few more times and see if it becomes more clear to me with caffeine, it is early gibberish right now but only to my brain, not to anyone else good at the genetic bit. :lol: <br /><br /> __________ Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:36 am __________ <br /><br /> So, correct me if I am wrong but if my broken red doe carries harli and the red buck carries harli then together they can produce harle BUT it will most likely be poorly marked or colored?

Have found a harli buck an hour and a bit south of my who looks great, NOT mini and a shocking price :shock: well, to me anyway on my budget but he would give me not only the colors I want but the kits would be pedigreed on both sides so I could perhaps make my money back.

Hmmmmmmmmm how to justify $60 and a two and a half hours round trip for ONE rabbit?

 

[Nymphadora]

Have to ask, what is a frosty rex?

I'm having a great time trying to follow all this as well, but I found a decent resource for seeing examples of coloring in Rex coats (examples are minis, but the fur is the same).

https://wildriverrabbitry.weebly.com/mini-rex-color-guide.html

From their site, here is an example of a frosty:

 

[GBov]

Ah, I had a frosted chinchilla doe once, same color as that. Productive little beastie she was, am sitting beside a hide right now from one of her chin colored offspring. <br /><br /> __________ Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:01 am __________ <br /><br /> Thank you for the picture!!!

 

[Nymphadora]

So, correct me if I am wrong but if my broken red doe carries harli and the red buck carries harli then together they can produce harle BUT it will most likely be poorly marked or colored?

Nope. My understanding from the earlier explanations is that red is recessive to harli. So a red + harli will have harli kits, but red can't "carry" harli, because it would override the red. Like how a solid can't "carry" for broken.

Did I get that right, Akane?

Have found a harli buck an hour and a bit south of my who looks great, NOT mini and a shocking price :shock: well, to me anyway on my budget but he would give me not only the colors I want but the kits would be pedigreed on both sides so I could perhaps make my money back.

Hmmmmmmmmm how to justify $60 and a two and a half hours round trip for ONE rabbit?

Go for it, go for it, go for it! Unless the buck in question's type is sub-par, I'd say see if there's anything else in the area worth visiting, make a day trip out of it, and pick that buck up on your way home.

If his type is poor though... yes you'd get the colors you want, but you'll have to spend a while fixing the type to get it back to standards.

Good luck! :good-luck:

 

[Dood]

Reds, nor fawns, oranges, torts, sable points, frosty, cannot carry harlequin

 

[GBov]

Reds, nor fawns, oranges, torts, sable points, frosty, cannot carry harlequin

Then how do I get them then? Other than buy them already colored, as it were?

The buck I am probably going to go get this weekend is very nicely marked with nice bright harlequin color. Looks good for type as well but one picture is not enough really to tell.

 

[Nymphadora]

Reds, nor fawns, oranges, torts, sable points, frosty, cannot carry harlequin

Then how do I get them then? Other than buy them already colored, as it were?

I'm guessing you'd need to have at least one harlequin parent... and then you can pair him with any of the recessives and you'll still get harli kits.

 

[GBov]

Duh, that makes sense, must be a bit dim today. :lol: I will blame it on bookshelf building instead of natural denseness.

Have spent several hours stripping back two pieces of old growth heartwood pine for the uprights and my hands are zinging from the power tools. Layers and layers and layers of dull white paint but that bit is done now.

Seller has not yet said if I can come this weekend for the buck, there are three but I like this one best for looks.

 

[Nymphadora]

Duh, that makes sense, must be a bit dim today. :lol: I will blame it on bookshelf building instead of natural denseness. .

The bookshelves sound fantastic, though, and I never claim to be 100% awake until at least noon. :lol:

Seller has not yet said if I can come this weekend for the buck, there are three but I like this one best for looks.

I'll cross my fingers for you!

 

[GBov]

Going Sat to get him. Wheeeeee excited!

 

[Nymphadora]

:wbounce:


:cheesysmile:

 

[akane]

Yes red, tort, etc... cannot carry harli so bred together will not create it from nothing but harli is dominant to the gene for those colors (nonextension). Unlike the chestnut or nontort version of selfs that covers up harli. Those 2 and steel are the same location allowing a mix of nonextension, harli, and steel plus the regular gene all to be possible but it doesn't always come out that just the more dominant gene expresses normally rather than messing with the markings. You can have a rabbit with one harli and one nonextension gene rather than 2 harli genes and show up harli. The odds just go up they get poorly marked. Not all quality harli aren't already self or nonextension combo either though and it can be hard to tell if they do come out with good patches and no tort shading showing. It's not a guarantee buying a harli that you aren't getting the same thing as mixing a harli and red but much like the modifiers for broken you are more likely to get better markings from properly marked rabbits than breeding an unknown. Reason I never seriously got harlequins. Pattern genes are often an extra headache to work with if you aren't breeding some non-show stock.

A frosty is nonextension shaded agouti. Like a red but with shaded genes. It tends to get applied to both the chinchilla gene and the sable gene since sable with agouti is more light chinchilla rather than sable colored. If you haven't seen sable agouti the lighter buck here is actually sable or light chinchilla while the darker doe is regular chinchilla.

It's already hard to tell apart but when you wash it all out with nonextension you have to be familiar with how the shading varies to tell them apart and I wouldn't say it's completely accurate every time. Easier if you can see them evolve in color as they grow. They appear similar but will come out differently when mixed with other genes so whether you have a sable based or chinchilla based frosty starts to matter for other colors you want from it instead of just combining more frosty. I'm not entirely sure what exactly happens when you put sable with harli in place of chinchilla.

 

[GBov]

As ever Akane, I am dazzled by your knowledge of genetics.