registration/pedigrees help me understand

[ruralnurse]

I am not sure if this is the right place for this question. It has to do with record keeping so I hope it is ok here.

I have had AKC dogs and raised a few litters and registered the pups. I have raised and shown CFA Persian cats so understand "registration". I understand pedigrees and how valuable they are for a breeding program. But it does not seem like the registration and pedigrees of rabbits are like those of dogs and cats.

Is there a registering body for rabbits like there is for dogs and cats? Are there those "faux" registering bodies like CKC and APRI (for dogs) for rabbits that one should avoid?

If one was wanting to purchase rabbits that could produce young that could be sold for breeding or show would one want "registration papers"? Or pedigrees?

Thanks for any info!

 

[Marinea]

There is no registering body. Pedigrees are prepared by breeders, and are basically three generations listing breed, color, birth dates, weights.

American Rabbit Breeders Association (ARBA) can register rabbitries, but not rabbits.

 

[powellanimals]

I believe they do register rabbits: https://www.arba.net/registrars.htm

It works differently than dogs. Just because the parents are registered does not make the kits registerable. They have to be seen by a registrar (usually a judge) and not have any DQs and match the standard before they can be registered.

 

[caroline]

Rabbits can actually be registered.
ARBA has both judges, for shows, and registrars, who are authorized to register rabbits who meet the basic weight and breed/variety criteria, and for whom the owner can provide a pedigree of at least 3 generations showing that the rabbit's ancestors were all of minimum weight and recognized variety.

I have never registered any of my rabbits, partly because I have quite a few "unrecognized" varieties in my barn and because it isn't important to me and can get expensive but I do keep extended pedigrees on all my rabbits. I use Globalpedigree.com to keep my records. I like it a lot. And I have at least 7 generation that I can access on all the rabbits. Some I have as many as 12.

 

[alforddm]

In order to be registered the rabbit has to have I think 3 legs toward champion or something similar. They can then be registered with the ARBA and receive a tattoo from the ARBA. With all other rabbits, it is simply done by breeders who prepare the pedigree but there is no official system.

 

[caroline]

In order to be registered the rabbit has to have I think 3 legs toward champion or something similar. They can then be registered with the ARBA and receive a tattoo from the ARBA. With all other rabbits, it is simply done by breeders who prepare the pedigree but there is no official system.

The 3 legs are what is needed to make them a permanent champion. In order to be registered they just have to meet the weight and variety criteria and have no DQs.

 

[ruralnurse]

So it sounds like when most people talk about any type of 'papers' it is a pedigree? And even if you get an un-pedigreed rabbit, if you keep records and breed it and it's offspring, you will eventually have a pedigreed rabbit. And the pedigrees are just assumed to be an honest representation of the animal. So in reality a pedigree is only as good as the honesty of the breeder?

I remember in AKC before they put in the DNA requirements for a certain number of litters per year, people ("breeders") would switch papers around from one dog (or cat with CFA) to another. Obviously not honest or reputable breeders but none the less pedigrees/papers did not always truly match the animal.

 

[alforddm]

The 3 legs are what is needed to make them a permanent champion. In order to be registered they just have to meet the weight and variety criteria and have no DQs.

Your right. I went back and looked it up and they have to be registered to be champion I had it backwards

 

[Ramjet]

So it sounds like when most people talk about any type of 'papers' it is a pedigree? And even if you get an un-pedigreed rabbit, if you keep records and breed it and it's offspring, you will eventually have a pedigreed rabbit. And the pedigrees are just assumed to be an honest representation of the animal. So in reality a pedigree is only as good as the honesty of the breeder?

This is exactly the case .... Only as good as the ethics and honesty of that individual breeder. Be careful who you deal with ....

Yes , you could take unpedigreed stock and produce pedigreed stock in time.

I remember in AKC before they put in the DNA requirements for a certain number of litters per year, people ("breeders") would switch papers around from one dog (or cat with CFA) to another. Obviously not honest or reputable breeders but none the less pedigrees/papers did not always truly match the animal.

I had an issue with this not long ago with my AKC Maltese. The breeder had one registered female and was registering litters from multiple others using that dogs registration .... Needless to say , my dog is still AKC but I can no longer register her pups. That hurts when you are talking about ~$2k-$2.5k per pup.
I just got her fixed to avoid future frustrations.

The breeder in question was banned for life from the AKC.

 

[Marinea]

I had completely forgotten about the champion registering. Sorry for the bad info, and glad I was corrected.

I have yet to be asked for a pedigree for my meat breeders, but I could provide them. I always have my current year record book with me when talking to a buyer. When you go to a breeder, ask questions about things like birth dates, litter sizes, parent colors. You will get a good idea fairly quickly about whether they will be able to provide a pedigree you can rely on.

 

[ruralnurse]

Ramjet - yes there were (and I am sure are) still lots of dishonest breeders of AKC dogs. they are making it more difficult with the requirement for DNA testing. I was sold a blue (rare color) AKC male dachshund from a well known breeder. He was shipped from NC to MT and that along with his price was pretty impressive. We place every pup as a pet that was not to be bred but we wanted to keep a son. Well when it came time to DNA the son, guess what. His DNA results showed that he was not the son of the dog he was registered to have come from. Needless to say that really soured me from then on. We have a litter about once per year now (that male has been neutered) and place them all as pets with an alter contract.

I am asking all of this because I can see that there are lots of alternative "products" from rabbits. I mainly want meat for my family. But I am seeing that it costs the same to feed, house, care for purebred rabbits as it does for "meat muts". I don't have infinite space so I have to decide what I am going to have and make that decision with all the information I can get.

My thoughts are Rex, Satin, Silver Fox, NZW, Californian. I know there are a lot of Rex in my area, occasional Satin and Silver Fox, lots of mixes of NZW/Californian, occasional purebred of those two. Lots of 4H groups and kids in the area. So if I chose a breed that would feed my family, but also appeal to others I would have an additional "out" for young. If they have pedigrees then that may be valuable to those purchasers that would want that.

Thanks everyone I think I understand about the papers that come with Rabbits.
In a nutshell:
- some breeds can be registered but there are certain show requirements involved/they must have attained
- pedigrees are a 3 generation family tree (listing breed, color, birth dates, weights) that also indicates the lines and potential recessive colors, coat, pattern etc.
- pedigrees can be "created" by a breeder by keeping good records and eventually have 3 generations to document
- pedigrees are only as valid as the integrity of the breeder, buyer beware

Thanks so much everyone, this forum is a wealth of information!

 

[MamaSheepdog]

- some breeds can be registered but there are certain show requirements involved/they must have attained

All breeds recognized by ARBA can be registered once they reach senior age. They must be examined by a Registrar and meet minimum weight, be free of DQs, and have a 3 generation pedigree showing weights and varieties of their ancestors, who must also meet those requirements. They do not have to have any "Legs" or show history, but in the eyes of the Registrar must be good examples of the breed.

Some breeds put a lot of weight on GC'd rabbits, but often times in your 6 class rabbits this is not the case since once does reach a certain weight they need to be bred and start producing as opposed to continuing their show career.

- pedigrees are a 3 generation family tree (listing breed, color, birth dates, weights) that also indicates the lines and potential recessive colors, coat, pattern etc.

Those characteristics would be "bonus" information. Pedigrees need only list DOB, breed, variety, and senior weight.

- pedigrees can be "created" by a breeder by keeping good records and eventually have 3 generations to document

Yes. Rabbits are judged on phenotype (outward appearance) as opposed to genotype (genetic history), so even if you introduced a totally different breed into the bloodline to get a particular characteristic (color, body type, etc.), once it is off the three generation pedigree the offspring are considered "purebred".

- pedigrees are only as valid as the integrity of the breeder, buyer beware

True of most anything in life.

 

[ruralnurse]

Thanks again to everyone!

I am one step closer to being an educated and responsible rabbit owner!