Regarding Grace

[PSFAngoras]

I want to thank the administrators for their decision, I believe that you were correct and I am greatful for your choice. I have not been on here long, but one if the reasons that I love this forum so much is that it very much feels like an open, welcoming community.

Many things on here are accepted with dignity, such as when we make mistakes (we're only human!) and are not replied to with nasty comments, but suggestions of help. Also, even in 'arguements' (said so hesitantly, as they are more like a good logical debate) things are not so serious that the posters feel the need to act childish and bash each other for the rest of their time on the forum. It's more along the lines of summing up a good debate. Both hold their opinions to be true and commend the other for their valid points that were given. No hard feelings.

I feel like Grace has violated these principles, and have felt that way since I joined (again, not that long ago, but long enough to see her behavior). She has been very condescending and immature in quite a lot of her posts/threads and I feel like it has been to much social drama.

Again, thank you. It is very much appreciated!

 

[JessicaR]

I just want to say that I think this is a great site! I have found it very helpful and the people on here are friendly. I am glad to be a part of such a great forum!

 

[3mina]

"I'm also starting to regret my own, past venting threads. I have sensed a change in the forum lately, more drama, venting and uhappy stuff both in threads and in the chat box, and I think Grace and I both helped making it that way."

The difference Zab is that you weren't looking for attention, you were asking for thoughts and opinions on things that were bothering you and you welcomed advice and discussion. Grace was not and did not. I believe that even if you hadn't posted your threads the end result would have been the same. There's enough crud out there, don't take on more than you have to.

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

Makes sense, Kyle! After the first time I replied to her on her "vent" thread (and got nowhere), I quit reading most of her threads--too much drama for me. She clearly wanted attention rather than solutions.

To be honest I don't have a problem with attention-seeking, she just went about it in a very immature and overly-emotional way. And she seemed never to realize that offers of possible solutions IS attention, technically.

Like I said maybe being banned is good for her, since she said this forum makes her so anxious and unhappy.

I'm also starting to regret my own, past venting threads. I have sensed a change in the forum lately, more drama, venting and uhappy stuff both in threads and in the chat box, and I think Grace and I both helped making it that way. Let's try to change that again and not over-use the nice peoples compassion here

Don't you dare regret venting, Zab! I've yet to see you stir the pot the way Grace would, and I've yet to see you reject or lash out at every suggestion or offer of advice. We all need to vent from time to time, life can be frustrating and things sometimes come to a head, and we need to let off some steam. Don't think for a second that venting isn't allowed!

There's a difference between venting and DRAMA. Big boatloads of difference.

I get a feeling one of those screenshots are about me. *sigh* And I liked her.

I feel betrayed... and I think that's about the worst thing I know of. I rather take an honest disagreement than someone going behind my back.

If it helps, just take a deep breath and remind yourself that Grace has issues well beyond the norm. And while I can't condone backstabbing, she DID take some pretty ugly shots at the whole forum, so at least it wasn't "personal."

Small comfort, I know, but what can you expect from someone who is both extremely young and EXTREMELY maladjusted? Hopefully she can get help someday.

Were ANY of her circumstances "real"?
Or just figments of her imagination?

I've wondered that myself. Since she kept changing her story, I wondered from time to time if the story didn't change so often because she was lying and kept forgetting who she told what to.

Like I said, can't emphasize it enough, really hope she can get professional help.

If no changes internally occur within this young person they are headed
for a lifetime of unhappiness and mental anguish.

I agree. I even tried to tell her as much in one of those threads. :| It was a hard lesson I had to learn: I cannot change how other people think, act or feel. I can ONLY change myself.

Dialectical Behavior Theory. She needs it. BADLY.

First, I am feeling sorry for and protective of those here who she badmouthed. None of it was deserved. None of it was an accurate reflection of those she wrote about. Some children her age cannot handle adult criticism, no mater how gently phrased, or how constructive. They lash out. I believe that's what we're seeing in her off site posts.

I agree. Like I said, I just can't take it seriously, because of who it is from and why. :roll: I equate it with a childish temper tantrum, because she didn't get what she wanted.

I am also feeling sorry for Grace. Yes, you read that right. She has some issues. Unfortunately, with today's social media, she will undoubtedly "meet" others with the same issues, and she will be validated, and thereby continue her troubling behaviors. I fear she faces a rude awakening one day. Yes, she is bringing it on herself, but I still feel the fall will be hard, and the lesson learned later than sooner.

Me too. I hate to involve myself any further, but I'm half tempted to link her mom to some of her posts in hopes that she might seek help for what I believe to be a critically maladjusted, troubled youth. Maybe then she'd get the help she clearly needs.

But IDK, I'm also half tempted to say "well, not my problem" and leave well enough alone.

I feel like Grace has violated these principles, and have felt that way since I joined (again, not that long ago, but long enough to see her behavior). She has been very condescending and immature in quite a lot of her posts/threads and I feel like it has been to much social drama.

:yeahthat:

Anyways, the decision is a good and sound one. Much kudos to the admins and mods for keeping this forum a safe and inviting place!!!

 

[Zab]

hehe, thanks for the reassurement. 3mina and Kyle. Now I'm even stealing this thread in my attentin seeking! :lol: (well.. I do like attention, who doesn't?)

I'm not overly upset. I was very surprised to find her banned, and to find out about the other posts.. and reading that part I think may be about me caused a wave of mixed emotions.. I can see how she could have been offended by something I've written - not because I mean it in a bad way but because I can't keep my mouth shut about my own opinions, and it is difficult to understand how someone can have a certain opinion without judging those with the opposite thought. But that doesn't make it okay to go behind the persons back.

I hope she finds a way through her problems. I recognize myself in a lot of the posts she's made.. maybe I'm just Zabinizing her (instead of humanising ) but I do see some dots to connect. It's not an easy place to be.

 

[dayna]

I know how hard it is to decide to ban a member. Kyle, I would not disagree with contacting her Mother. Does her Mother know she posts as a much older child?

Myself, being the Mother of an actual 16 year old, would feel grateful if someone contacted me about an issue such as this.

However my 16 year old does not have this amount of "free" access to the computer! I know what she's doing and when she's doing it. lol

 

[Demamma]

If she was my daughter I would want to know.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Thank you all for your kind words and understanding. It comes as no surprise, but it is appreciated!

Banning a member is never an easy choice, and is not a step that we take lightly or make hastily. There is a lot of discussion before we come to such a decision, all the while hoping that the member in question wont cross the line in an irreparable manner while we do so.

I would actually like to take this moment to thank the Mods and Admins of this site. Remarkably, this site manages to be useful and supportive of all the types of rabbit owners, without getting a billion and one people against breeding, meat rabbits, fur, etc.

Allow me to take a moment to thank our members. This site would not be possible without you, and the respect you show to one another. :gold-star:

Your admin/mod team is thick skinned, and we can handle people talking about our moderating style, but we DO NOT tolerate anyone trash-talking our members. At all. Period. This forum is more like a family, and we prefer to keep it that way. :campfire:

:yeahthat:

Hubs gave me a nickname years ago- "Teflon Girl"- because I let people's criticism slide off of me. :roll: I chose my username "MamaSheepdog" because I am fiercely protective of those I love. Don't mess with my "pups", family, or friends, or you just may get bitten.

Grace made the fatal error of attacking my RabbitTalk family, and that is something I will not tolerate.

I am constantly awed by the compassion and wisdom so freely shared when one of our members is having personal problems. This is truly an amazing online community.

To be so dismissive of the help offered is not only ungrateful, but rude. To then misrepresent the facts and malign the very people who offered sincere help is unforgivable.

I am saddened by the hurtful things she said about our community. My sympathies to those who were so undeservedly singled out. :encourage:

DRAMA, DRAMA, DRAMA.....some people thrive on it.

Sadly, this is very true. I avoid those type of people in my personal life. They tend to want to bring you down to their own level of misery.

I am a firm believer that "like attracts like". If you are constantly focused on the "bad" in life, more trouble will come. If, on the other hand, your focus is on the "good", more blessings will follow.

People with a negative outlook bring negative energy with them, and I would much rather be uplifted by positive energy.

I am feeling two separate thoughts about this situation. First, I am feeling sorry for and protective of those here who she badmouthed. I am also feeling sorry for Grace.

I feel sorry for her too.

She has lost the privilege of belonging to this most wonderful forum, but worse yet I fear that if she continues with her behavior she will lose the respect and friendship of those she knows in real life.

Hopefully once she gets past her anger at the situation she will reflect on the circumstances that brought it about.

So many people here tried to help her, but when it comes right down to it, only she can help herself. I hope that she will follow a new path and find happiness and fulfillment in her life.

She is a smart young lady, so I think that she will be able to do it if she puts her mind to it.




:thankyou: MaggieJ and MidnightCoder for bringing RabbitTalk to life! Your hard work and dedication has resulted in a community to be proud of!

I feel very blessed to be a part of this forum because of the opportunity to interact with so many intelligent, compassionate people that otherwise would not be a part of my life. This is truly a wonderful and unique place.

Thank you as well for deciding to make me a part of the Moderating team. It is something that I take great pride in and count as a personal accomplishment.

 

[Cattle Cait]

I'm just laughing my butt off that Tiny Goat appears to be 50lbs. ROFL!

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

I know how hard it is to decide to ban a member. Kyle, I would not disagree with contacting her Mother. Does her Mother know she posts as a much older child?

Myself, being the Mother of an actual 16 year old, would feel grateful if someone contacted me about an issue such as this.

However my 16 year old does not have this amount of "free" access to the computer! I know what she's doing and when she's doing it. lol

That was kinda my thinking. But I also am not fond of drama and I worry that would be "stirring the pot"...or worse, bring some kind of trouble HERE. So I'm still not sure. Weighing my pros and cons.

If she was my daughter I would want to know.

If nothing else it might get her the help and therapy she needs. But again...I don't want to cause MOAR drama.

To be so dismissive of the help offered is not only ungrateful, but rude. To then misrepresent the facts and malign the very people who offered sincere help is unforgivable.

:yeahthat: :goodpost:

People with a negative outlook bring negative energy with them, and I would much rather be uplifted by positive energy.

SO MUCH THIS.

Now that's not to say nobody ever has a bad day EVER, and I know several kind, decent folk on this forum who are having more than their fair share of rotten luck or difficult circumstances right now...but they've never lashed out or backstabbed the people trying to help, either.

So many people here tried to help her, but when it comes right down to it, only she can help herself. I hope that she will follow a new path and find happiness and fulfillment in her life.

So very true. :?

I'm just laughing my butt off that Tiny Goat appears to be 50lbs. ROFL!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Miss M]

I think I remember the incident in the front-page chat, when a mod? admin? was frustrated with the subject - they did their job and told them to take it elsewhere. I remember thinking that the chat wasn't the kind of thing a someone should be greeted with...

Yes, the posts that finally caused them to be told to take it to the "big chat" were graphic posts about culling baby rabbits. Even though the chatbox can be seen only by logged-in members, it is still not the place for that.

Also, the chatbox is more for throwing random thoughts out, or having short conversations. There were some long, fast conversations being held there, which is what "big chat" is designed for. Some of our members who just like to stick a fun/sad/mad comment in the chatbox now and then were frustrated, because their posts would disappear very quickly.

I imagine that most people who've been banned, it was a clear black-and-white rule-breakage or a line they crossed...with Grace it's more of a gray area, as best I can figure it. She tapdanced the line between compliant and noncompliant.

This is basically it. And we really have banned VERY few real members (mostly we ban spammers). One of them we banned three times, as he kept trying with new IDs, and because of odd IP situations, we had to take some time to determine that we were indeed dealing with the same person.

But the others, really, were very black-and-white situations. Coming in, saying outrageous things, the only purpose of which could only be to cause others to lose their minds and freak out. Flaming. Trash-talking Admin and Mods in the open forum (this may sound self-serving, but it actually does not mean that we won't take criticism -- it's the kind of trash-talking we wouldn't allow about anyone, really... and it's against forum rules in pretty much any forum out there). But yeah, that kind of stuff. You send warnings, the behavior continues, you ban.

We typically notify the member(s) most concerned, and leave it at that, saying nothing in the forum. If anyone notices that the banned member is gone, they understand why immediately, because of what the person was doing. Or, at least, that is our hope.

In this case, with the really serious behavior occurring offsite but directed at our members, we felt we needed to provide our members with a reason for her sudden disappearance.

Allow me to take a moment to thank our members. This site would not be possible without you, and the respect you show to one another. :gold-star:

YES. This was my first thought when thanks started pouring in to us on this thread. Without the thoughtful, respectful, kind members we have... it wouldn't matter what moderating we did, RT would not be what it is.

:thankyou:

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

This is basically it. And we really have banned VERY few real members (mostly we ban spammers). One of them we banned three times, as he kept trying with new IDs, and because of odd IP situations, we had to take some time to determine that we were indeed dealing with the same person.

I think I know who you are talking about.

Yes, the posts that finally caused them to be told to take it to the "big chat" were graphic posts about culling baby rabbits. Even though the chatbox can be seen only by logged-in members, it is still not the place for that.

I'm sure there are plenty of people on this forum who keep rabbits as pets and while they can choose to ignore topics about such things, the chatbox, once seen, cannot be un-seen. ABSOLUTELY the wrong place for that!!!

In this case, with the really serious behavior occurring offsite but directed at our members, we felt we needed to provide our members with a reason for her sudden disappearance.

Much appreciated in this instance. Just sorry that the whole thing went down...she DID say some really cruel things, and I am sure that the backstabbing would continue (and still might for a while once she realizes she's banned here) if she remained.

Totally agree with the mods 100% on this.

 

[DogCatMom]

Thank you for removing this source of drama. I cannot say I'm "happy" that she's been banned; that's not the feeling I have.

I am surprised to find that this former member wasn't 15 or so; her drama was very consistent with 15 years old (says the former 7th- to 12th-grade teacher). But I was extremely concerned a few days ago when she signed off--in her signature block, not on a single post--with her full name, given and surname. It was an invitation to Internet trouble of the worst kind.

Imagine: someone, let's call him/her a "creep," has the full name of a minor female "somewhere" in Kansas. The "somewhere" can be ascertained fairly closely by a narrow reading of her posts both here and elsewhere on animal forums. This much, anyone might do out of normal curiosity. But the "creep" decides to go further, reaching out on social media known to be popular with young people (i.e., teens rather than 20-somethings) and contacts Grace by means of one of these media. "Creep" sets up a meeting somewhere close to Grace's home, perhaps in conjunction with a rabbit or goat show.

I think we can all take it from there, and it's not pretty.

If in fact she is not even 13 yet, I would strongly recommend her mother be contacted. If she's 13 or older, I'm not sure what the law/protocol is. People must in general be ≥ 13 to participate in on-line forums. (At least, that's the policy on the ones I'm part of, and definitely policy on the gardening forum I help moderate.)

I spent some time on the "drama" threads, trying to talk her down from the edge (and now I wonder if she was actually on the edge) just a couple of weeks after I joined RT in August. That's time from my life I can never get back. If it helped her, I don't begrudge one second of it. But if the whole situation was faked, then I am very grudging of my time.

We may never know.

 

[Cottie]

I think I remember the incident in the front-page chat, when a mod? admin? was frustrated with the subject - they did their job and told them to take it elsewhere. I remember thinking that the chat wasn't the kind of thing a someone should be greeted with...

Yes, the posts that finally caused them to be told to take it to the "big chat" were graphic posts about culling baby rabbits. Even though the chatbox can be seen only by logged-in members, it is still not the place for that.

If she was my daughter I would want to know.

The problem (as I see it), is Grace provided information she isn't really allowed to share from a legal perspective. I think, for whatever it's worth, it should be shared with her parents electronically, but most of it shouldn't be left public. There are laws governing information sharing from person's under certain ages. My daughter has lost her Internet access at home, almost entirely, for violating them.

 

[Miss M]

I'm sorry! I didn't mean to do that! :lol: I didn't name names!

Regarding information Grace should not have provided publicly, I don't see anything currently on her signature... if there is anything anywhere that needs removing, please let us know.

I do agree that her mother should be informed. (Sorry, Sassy -- I mean Kyle!)

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

If in fact she is not even 13 yet, I would strongly recommend her mother be contacted. If she's 13 or older, I'm not sure what the law/protocol is. People must in general be ≥ 13 to participate in on-line forums. (At least, that's the policy on the ones I'm part of, and definitely policy on the gardening forum I help moderate.)

She is in fact under 13.

Imagine: someone, let's call him/her a "creep," has the full name of a minor female "somewhere" in Kansas. The "somewhere" can be ascertained fairly closely by a narrow reading of her posts both here and elsewhere on animal forums. This much, anyone might do out of normal curiosity. But the "creep" decides to go further, reaching out on social media known to be popular with young people (i.e., teens rather than 20-somethings) and contacts Grace by means of one of these media. "Creep" sets up a meeting somewhere close to Grace's home, perhaps in conjunction with a rabbit or goat show.

This is a legitimate and SCARY concern.

I spent some time on the "drama" threads, trying to talk her down from the edge (and now I wonder if she was actually on the edge) just a couple of weeks after I joined RT in August. That's time from my life I can never get back. If it helped her, I don't begrudge one second of it. But if the whole situation was faked, then I am very grudging of my time.

We may never know.

I agree, Dogcatmom, but I also think of it this way: if she legitimately needed help, and we helped her, then so much the better. If she wasn't and just wanted attention or something and didn't need or WANT help, and we tried to help her anyways, so much the better. I'd rather be blown off and talked trash about by a lying, backstabbing child any day...because it means we won't dismiss or ignore a person in need of help when they really NEED IT.

But yes, I'm sure much of our time was "wasted" on her.

There are laws governing information sharing from person's under certain ages. My daughter has lost her Internet access at home, almost entirely, for violating them.

My son is strictly monitored for online stuff...and he knows the rules: no giving out real names at ALL, don't get any more specific than "Canada" when asked where he lives (hey, let's be honest, Canada is HUGE, so that doesn't narrow anything down!!! :lol, never answer if someone asks how old you are, AND if ANYONE asks for ANY of that he must tell an adult IMMEDIATELY.

Grace is only a few years older than my son. :x Gives me pause when I think about some of the info she's "shared." :shock:

I do agree that her mother should be informed. (Sorry, Sassy -- I mean Kyle!)

LOL!!! Tempted to put "Watch out, I'm sassy!" in my signature. :mrgreen:

I'll ask my ultra-rational friend once I get to their house...if G. agrees, I'll send a message to her mother. Hopefully it will help Grace get the help she needs and will prevent a tragedy-in-the-making, such as the "creep" scenario.

 

[PSFAngoras]

I can see how she could have been offended by something I've written - not because I mean it in a bad way but because I can't keep my mouth shut about my own opinions

That's what I love about RT though, that everyone can post those sorts of things without offending another, instead it is weighed as another, credible option. Sure, what is written my not be agreed upon by all, but we are adults. We realize that not everyone agree wih what we choose, but that doesn't make us wrong. It just means there are other ways to get to the same means.

Don't think for a second that being opinionated is a crime, so long as we don't put down those that don't share our opinion. If anything it just means that when advice is offered, that the OP can read through the advice and opinions on how things should be done and act accordingly to what fields their situation. In my opinion ( ) that's what makes this forum wonderful!

 

[Demamma]

RT'ers are Amazing!!!! Here we are having been put down by Grace given hours to drama to try and help. Even though she is banned you all are still trying to help her and keep her safe. I love Rabbit Talk.

 

[trinityoaks]

Myself, being the Mother of an actual 16 year old, would feel grateful if someone contacted me about an issue such as this.

However my 16 year old does not have this amount of "free" access to the computer! I know what she's doing and when she's doing it. lol

As I found out, Grace is 12 years old, not 16.

 

[Cottie]

I'm sorry! I didn't mean to do that! :lol: I didn't name names!

Muaha! But I did!

Regarding information Grace should not have provided publicly, I don't see anything currently on her signature... if there is anything anywhere that needs removing, please let us know.

I do agree that her mother should be informed. (Sorry, Sassy -- I mean Kyle!)

With the information she gave in her posts, I was able to find her parents' business. I'm sure if I was so inclined the address would be readily available as well. And this wasn't even "stalker" behavior. I looked up her rabbitry, which led to her Google+ page, which had her parents' farm listed. Their FB page, then her mom's posts that revealed her age. Took about 2 minutes.

So...yeah. Anything that references "Whistling Trees Rabbitry" is a hop, skip and a jump from someone being able to manipulate her online and track her down.