Cattle Cait
Well-known member
Is Golden (aka Cream, Fawn) dilute of Red? Will breeding Red NZ into my Golden Palomino program have any negative effects on the color?
Red Color Genetics ("Golden" NZ vs Golden Pal photo added)
- Thread starter Cattle Cait
- Start date
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yes, golden, cream, fawn are all A_ __ C_ dd ee
If you breed in red you are basically adding the Dense gene.
If the red rabbit is DD all the babies will be red.
If the rabbit is Dd then half the babies will be red and half will be golden/cream/fawn
it's also possible to get tort from this combo is both parent carry self "a"
If you breed in red you are basically adding the Dense gene.
If the red rabbit is DD all the babies will be red.
If the rabbit is Dd then half the babies will be red and half will be golden/cream/fawn
it's also possible to get tort from this combo is both parent carry self "a"
Devon's Mom Lauren
Well-known member
It might have negative effects if Palomino is chocolate-based and the NZR is black-based... but I am not sure on what a pal is really supposed to be genetically. Can always try and if you don't like what happens just eat your mistakes lol! 
Gold is not the same as cream and fawn in some breeds and cream and fawn are not always the same colors either. Fawn in one breed may be the dilute of red with actual dd genes but in another it may just be a red without rufus modifiers and cream may be the name for the dilute dd instead. Which shows up on the angora sites. Each breeds color names are unique and may have a different genotype (the genetics) to the phenotype(visible color) so we need to be clear on the breed first.
I believe another thread discussed pals being chocolate agouti with nonextension so AA bb CC DD ee instead of the diluted black based AA BB CC dd ee normally called fawn. Breeding in red would change the b to B making them black based instead of changing the dilution. You could breed it back out in 2 generations since once you cross the Bb rabbits you'd just have to cull all the black based which are reds so if there is a good reason you could add and remove reds fairly easily. You would not want to mix diluted red in there since you'd be changing 2 sets of genes and having to breed each out while making a bunch of in between colors.
As you can see this site lists orange, red, and gold under both black based and chocolate based
http://rabbitinfocenter.8m.com/genetics.html
This is one of the angora sites which lists fawn as the same as red just no rufus modifiers which make red brighter
http://www.angorahouse.com/angora%20rab ... netics.htm
I believe another thread discussed pals being chocolate agouti with nonextension so AA bb CC DD ee instead of the diluted black based AA BB CC dd ee normally called fawn. Breeding in red would change the b to B making them black based instead of changing the dilution. You could breed it back out in 2 generations since once you cross the Bb rabbits you'd just have to cull all the black based which are reds so if there is a good reason you could add and remove reds fairly easily. You would not want to mix diluted red in there since you'd be changing 2 sets of genes and having to breed each out while making a bunch of in between colors.
As you can see this site lists orange, red, and gold under both black based and chocolate based
http://rabbitinfocenter.8m.com/genetics.html
This is one of the angora sites which lists fawn as the same as red just no rufus modifiers which make red brighter
http://www.angorahouse.com/angora%20rab ... netics.htm
OK
so red is there all along
it's the orange band in your standard AA BB CC DD EE and here is the kicked WW - wideband
what a red is
is simply a chestnut agouti who has the mid color (orange) widened to take up most the shaft (wideband, which produces a type of fawn/copper by it's self)
ran down to the skin (extension) and up to the tip.
so red is there all along
it's the orange band in your standard AA BB CC DD EE and here is the kicked WW - wideband
what a red is
is simply a chestnut agouti who has the mid color (orange) widened to take up most the shaft (wideband, which produces a type of fawn/copper by it's self)
ran down to the skin (extension) and up to the tip.
Devon's Mom Lauren
Well-known member
Not all red is wideband.. wideband removes the cream belly and eye/ear circles. Most red that is not a Thrianta, is always a non-extension agouti and can be black or chocolate based and full colour or dilute. I am not familiar with the Pals and have no idea if they are wideband or no? I do understand there are two varieties of Pals so they could be anything I guess LOL
Cattle Cait
Well-known member
One of the Pal varities is Lynx, but they're a different ball game and I don't mess with them. All I've got are Golden. I got a "Golden" New Zealand from a breeder who raises Reds and he looks darker then the Pals, maybe he is black-based then?
Devon's Mom Lauren
Well-known member
I would guess that the NZR is most likely black based.. but is he lighter than a normal NZR? If so there is a possibility he is dilute, which would be really rare I would think . Perhaps you could establish a new Golden NZ. as well lol
Cattle Cait
Well-known member
Yes, he is. He's a sort of in-between color, like darker and more ruddy then a Golden Pal but definitely not an actual Red. The breeder says they crop up in his Red line every once in awhile.
Here's a photo of Arthur, the "Golden" NZ, next to Shem. Art is on the left, Shem on the right.
Here's a photo of Arthur, the "Golden" NZ, next to Shem. Art is on the left, Shem on the right.
Cattle Cait":2qiyw2ib said:Yes, he is. He's a sort of in-between color, like darker and more ruddy then a Golden Pal but definitely not an actual Red. The breeder says they crop up in his Red line every once in awhile.
Here's a photo of Arthur, the "Golden" NZ, next to Shem. Art is on the left, Shem on the right.
Just looking at the picture... i think that You might get away with this buck. However ... watch out for smut... especially on the ears of youngsters from the cross.
Devon's Mom Lauren
Well-known member
They are beautiful! I love that colour! Just out of curiosity I would try a cross!!! If it doesn't get what you want at worst you have some meat mutts, at best you will have opened up the gene pool a bit.
