Rats Rats RATS!!!

[OneAcreFarm]

OGG, you need some of "MamaSheepdog's Barn-Cats Extraordinaire"!

Our cats are great hunters and come in "decorative" colors.

I've been working on my lines for almost 15 years now, and natural selection has been a real bear. But we have some great cats that hunt well and are "predator savvy" . The ones that aren't get eaten, which is always a big bummer, because it seems like they are always the "favorites".

But the cats we have hunt squirrels, mice, rats, and cottontails, yet leave my rabbits and baby chicks alone. I don't know if it is "nature or nurture" at work, but I have never tried to "train" our barncats to leave domestic animals alone, so it is probably "nature".

I hope that over time you can do the same with your cats and develop a population of good hunters that don't prey on your domestic livestock.

Us too, we have 6 barn cats and they kill rats, mice, moles, frogs, snakes, lizards, squirrels, etc....but I had a month old bunny escape sometime in the night and the next morning it was hopping around in the yard with them. And I feed my barn cats dead kits and rabbits....they just seem to know that unless Mom gives it to them, it is hands off!

 

[caroline]

So I’ve been feeling a little jealous of you who have the great mouser cats. We had one 35 years ago who lived to be 19 but have had terrible luck since then. It didn’t matter so much over the last 15 years because I didn’t have rabbits, so I could ignore any rodents that were living out in the pasture. And since there were no rabbits there was no tasty feed in the barn to nourish the rodents. I didn’t care so much that some of the veggies disappeared. But I DO CARE A LOT THAT THE BLASTED RATS ARE SOMEHOW EATING/MUTILATING KITS EVEN THOUGH I HAVE THE CORNERS OF CAGE DOORS CLIPPED CLOSED AND CAN'T FIGURE OUT HOW THEY ARE DOING IT!

So I was pretty excited when I saw a CL post looking for someone to take some kittens and a mom that were stray in the neighborhood and that they had had fixed. The lady was excited back and sent me pix of several. They look great and don’t look “feral” like she had said they were, since they were coming up to the cat food bowl a cute little boy was putting out.

My question is: Do I need to pen these cats if I get them so they will learn to stay here? Would it be a good Idea to enclose them in my main rabbitry, or would that be nerve wracking to the rabbits since they aren’t used to cats? I can’t imagine it being any MORE nerve wracking than having RATS running around in there and somehow mauling their kits intermittently even though I have a dozen rat traps set out there every night and do catch rats. I even have a family of barn owls living right above the rabbitry in a house that we built especially to house them so they’d get RID of the rats. I know they catch rats somewhere, since I see lots of tails on the barn roof. But still RATS running in my garden and digging under the duck pen and some of the raised beds.

I’d appreciate advice on how many cats to take and the best way to bond them to the barn and its environs.

 

[Piper]

So I’ve been feeling a little jealous of you who have the great mouser cats. We had one 35 years ago who lived to be 19 but have had terrible luck since then. It didn’t matter so much over the last 15 years because I didn’t have rabbits, so I could ignore any rodents that were living out in the pasture. And since there were no rabbits there was no tasty feed in the barn to nourish the rodents. I didn’t care so much that some of the veggies disappeared. But I DO CARE A LOT THAT THE BLASTED RATS ARE SOMEHOW EATING/MUTILATING KITS EVEN THOUGH I HAVE THE CORNERS OF CAGE DOORS CLIPPED CLOSED AND CAN'T FIGURE OUT HOW THEY ARE DOING IT!

So I was pretty excited when I saw a CL post looking for someone to take some kittens and a mom that were stray in the neighborhood and that they had had fixed. The lady was excited back and sent me pix of several. They look great and don’t look “feral” like she had said they were, since they were coming up to the cat food bowl a cute little boy was putting out.

My question is: Do I need to pen these cats if I get them so they will learn to stay here? Would it be a good Idea to enclose them in my main rabbitry, or would that be nerve wracking to the rabbits since they aren’t used to cats? I can’t imagine it being any MORE nerve wracking than having RATS running around in there and somehow mauling their kits intermittently even though I have a dozen rat traps set out there every night and do catch rats. I even have a family of barn owls living right above the rabbitry in a house that we built especially to house them so they’d get RID of the rats. I know they catch rats somewhere, since I see lots of tails on the barn roof. But still RATS running in my garden and digging under the duck pen and some of the raised beds.

I’d appreciate advice on how many cats to take and the best way to bond them to the barn and its environs.

- caroline - I suspect that your post, will be spun off to it's own thread, since the original thread was by someone else that was asking about ways to kill rats - without cats. There is another reason too. You have not provided any background.
- Are the rats getting in the cages, and eating the kits, right out of the nests?
- Are they pulling them through the wire, eating them piecemeal?
- What size is your cage wire?

- As far as the cats, I have seen rats go after cats. If your cages are not succure for the rabbits, it is possible that the kittens will be eaten the same way. You did not say how big the kittens are.?

- Evidence out of context. Info, please! <br /><br />__________ Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:33 am __________<br /><br />I have also seen two or three cats gang up, to take out something. How big are the rats?

 

[caroline]

- Are the rats getting in the cages, and eating the kits, right out of the nests?
- Are they pulling them through the wire, eating them piecemeal?
- What size is your cage wire?

- As far as the cats, I have seen rats go after cats. If your cages are not succure for the rabbits, it is possible that the kittens will be eaten the same way. You did not say how big the kittens are.?


I have also seen two or three cats gang up, to take out something. How big are the rats?

The rats have gotten into the cages & I have taken to using those hinged rings on the corners of the doors to make the space much tighter. This seems to have helped but I have STILL found 4 week old kit mangled bodies in the cages occasionally.

My cage wire is 1x2 on the sides and 1/2 x 1 on the floor.

The kittens are 4 months old and look as big as most full grown cats. There are 4 of them and the mom.

The rats vary in size, young are mouse sized and I have caught LOTS of them. The adults are up to 16" head to tail. They are interesting [besides being disgusting and super annoying]because some have been different colors than brown. Not sure if they are mutants or if pet rats have escaped in the area and interbred with the common rats.

I am definitely going to use the suggestion that I read on another post last night. Plaster mixed with chocolate cage mix in baggies down the holes that I can find.

 

[Piper]

Sounds like the rats are just walking through, your cage wire. Recomendations for cage wire to keep rats inside, 1" x 1/2" and to be sure 1/2" x 1/2". Your cage wire is large enough, that it may only keep out large full grown rats.

http://www.ratbehavior.org/CollapsibleSkeleton.htm
"Can rats really fit through a hole the size of a quarter?
Small rats can, large rats cannot."<br /><br />__________ Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:18 am __________<br /><br />

I am definitely going to use the suggestion that I read on another post last night. Plaster mixed with chocolate cage mix in baggies down the holes that I can find.

I would still recomend the cats, too.

 

[garden lady]

- Are the rats getting in the cages, and eating the kits, right out of the nests?
- Are they pulling them through the wire, eating them piecemeal?
- What size is your cage wire?

- As far as the cats, I have seen rats go after cats. If your cages are not succure for the rabbits, it is possible that the kittens will be eaten the same way. You did not say how big the kittens are.?


I have also seen two or three cats gang up, to take out something. How big are the rats?

The rats have gotten into the cages & I have taken to using those hinged rings on the corners of the doors to make the space much tighter. This seems to have helped but I have STILL found 4 week old kit mangled bodies in the cages occasionally.

My cage wire is 1x2 on the sides and 1/2 x 1 on the floor.

The kittens are 4 months old and look as big as most full grown cats. There are 4 of them and the mom.

The rats vary in size, young are mouse sized and I have caught LOTS of them. The adults are up to 16" head to tail. They are interesting [besides being disgusting and super annoying]because some have been different colors than brown. Not sure if they are mutants or if pet rats have escaped in the area and interbred with the common rats.

I am definitely going to use the suggestion that I read on another post last night. Plaster mixed with chocolate cage mix in baggies down the holes that I can find.

I do not think cats can FIX the problem for you or the OP. They can control it AFTER the problem is fixed. Either a professional needs to come and wipe the rats out or a lot of poison. All cats and rabbits should be moved and then place the poison and LOTS of it. Let it do the job. Wait and then go pick up dead rats and after you do not see any then go get ALL the poison. Write down where you put all the bait. I would do it to feel safe that a cat did not find the bait later on. The wire is big enough to let in SEVERAL small rats to eat the kits. If owls can get the rats then they can move out of the way of the cats. It would take a lot of cats to kill that many rats. When I had the rats move in I did not have any mice or rats in our home because the cats could get under and around the house, but they could not get in the barn where the rats were because that is where the dogs were. I raised dogs. The dogs would catch one now and then, but they are smart and they do not go where they are going to get caught, so they will travel where the cats can't. We used very small wire on the rabbit hutch because of horrible stories I have read of coons pulling chickens apart. :x :shock: My friend had an owl doing everything possible to get to her chickens and I hear an owl in the neighborhood. :x I am not sure if even mice could hurt the rabbits. Picture 3 or 4 at a time eating in a sack of grain or something left open and you go to look in the sack and several mice run out. They could also do that with the kits. I know cats are good, but there could be hundreds in the walls and tunnels and even kittens could get hurt.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

caroline - I suspect that your post, will be spun off to it's own thread, since the original thread was by someone else that was asking about ways to kill rats - without cats

There is no need to split this topic, since rat control is of interest to us all, and any and all methods or combinations thereof should be considered. This is a public forum, after all, and people may do a general search for "Rat Control" and it is convenient to have all options discussed in a thread.

Do I need to pen these cats if I get them so they will learn to stay here? Would it be a good Idea to enclose them in my main rabbitry, or would that be nerve wracking to the rabbits since they aren’t used to cats?

Yes, you should keep them confined for at least a week, if not more. I would put them in the rabbitry. My cats do not bother the rabbits, and the rabbits are acclimated to our dogs and cats. Rex rabbits seem to me to be a very confident breed of rabbit, that tend more to curiosity than flight. I have had a couple of occasions where some of my growouts got loose (my fault- didn't latch the cages), and they were hopping around the yard with cats everywhere. I think it is there confidence that made the difference to the cats, since our cats do kill and eat cottontails.

I’d appreciate advice on how many cats to take and the best way to bond them to the barn and its environs.

I would take them all. Some may escape, or the owls may get them. Feed them in the barn, and provide some boxes as hiding places for them. Some "feral" cats will become tame over time. We have a few that don't like to be touched, but when you sweet talk them they start rolling around and purring.

If you want to train them to come in at night for their hunting duties, ring a bell or make a distinctive whistle when you feed them. I feed my cats night and morning, giving only enough that they eat it within an hour or so. Contrary to popular belief, a well fed cat makes a better hunter. Underfed cats are not as patient, and will miss more often than a well fed (not fat!) cat.

Since some of the rats are so large, I would definitely continue with the traps and try the "Killer cupcakes". Do try to keep the mix out of reach of the cats- the baggie idea may not be the best option since the rats can move it. Small piles in the tunnels may be safer, or you could place some in containers with entry holes large enough for the rats but inaccessible to the cats.

then go get ALL the poison. Write down where you put all the bait.

Rats and mice will often carry the bait to other locations if it is not in a secure bait box.

 

[MaggieJ]

I've used glass jars pushed under the chicken house open end in to contain the plaster mixture. Seemed to work fine.

1"x2" wire is, unfortunately, an open invitation to rats. I've known small ones to get through 1"x1" even, though it is not common.

You can make a bait tube out of PVC tubing. There is a picture of a manufactured one, last picture on the page. Should not be difficult to make a red-neck version for a lot less money.
http://www.pestfix.co.uk/rat_bait_stations.asp

 

[garden lady]

If you want to train them to come in at night for their hunting duties, ring a bell or make a distinctive whistle when you feed them.

I heard my neighbor calling their cat with this nice little whistle sound. Am I the only one that goes at the top of their lungs, HERE KITTY KITTY KITTY KITTYYYYYYYY!! HERE KITTY KITTY KITTY KITTY KITTYYYYYY! :thinking: :lol:

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Am I the only one that goes at the top of their lungs, HERE KITTY KITTY KITTY KITTYYYYYYYY!!

The sound of a bell travels further, and can be used by anyone (pet sitter, etc.) to call them home. We don't call our cats back because we don't lock them up at night, plus they know when feeding time rolls around.

 

[caroline]

I appreciate the cat suggestions and the bait tube idea.

My excitement for the day was my shopping trip to Home Depot to PU the plaster. The "associates" there didn't know what I was asking for. Several had very puzzled looks on their faces when I asked where it was. Then they asked me what I wanted to use it for That was an interesting conversation... Anyway I finally found someone a little older than the workers strolling the floor and he suggested I buy fix-all, which we have used around here before. Since that seemed like their only option that was close, I got a box of it. Then I stopped at the grocery outlet and got 10 boxes of cake mix. on to the 99cent store for snack baggies...
At home I decided to add some cornmeal to the formula and so I now have about 20 little baggies of deadly dessert for the resident rodents, with lots more ingredients to make more as needed.

I'm going to put them down the holes that I located as I was raking manure this am, since the kitties aren't here yet. And then I'm going to work on the PVC holders for long term use.

Moving over 100 rabbits and getting an exterminator in here and dealing with the long term consequences of putting toxins into my place just isn't going to happen here. I have too many animals that would be endangered to want to go that route.

I will keep setting traps and look forward to making some of those bait tubes for longer term use.

thanks for all the support and ideas. I'll keep you posted.

 

[Stormy]

I’d appreciate advice on how many cats to take and the best way to bond them to the barn and its environs.

I would take them all. Some may escape, or the owls may get them. Feed them in the barn, and provide some boxes as hiding places for them. Some "feral" cats will become tame over time. We have a few that don't like to be touched, but when you sweet talk them they start rolling around and purring.

If you want to train them to come in at night for their hunting duties, ring a bell or make a distinctive whistle when you feed them. I feed my cats night and morning, giving only enough that they eat it within an hour or so. Contrary to popular belief, a well fed cat makes a better hunter. Underfed cats are not as patient, and will miss more often than a well fed (not fat!) cat.

then go get ALL the poison. Write down where you put all the bait.

Rats and mice will often carry the bait to other locations if it is not in a secure bait box.

Great advice, MSD. It wasn't until cat #4 - the one we almost didn't keep (I fostered kittens) - that I struck solid gold with a cat who prefers to spend all day hunting mice and rats!! And gophers! Yes, he's brought back giant rats almost as big as he is, and he's not huge, at 9 lbs. While he eats his kill, he still demands two solid meals a day! We don't know how he does it, burns off a lot of calories, I suppose! He needs regular worming though from time to time, when we notice his flanks sink - the downfall of eating rodents is eating their fleas and getting tapeworm.

Unfortunately, he prefers to hunt the fields and possibly our neighbors property - we see him carry his rats in from the woods. But what about my external laundry room? We have rats that come out at night, and we don't let him out at night. So we're at a standoff. I've been too terrified to put poison out, I had a cat die of that once. I know how these guys catch and eat all the rodents. I am going to read all these threads to see if there is another way. We've tried snap traps and the expensive electric ones, nothing has worked...

 

[GBov]

That is a very interesting observation about the calmness of tame rabbits not triggering off the hunting urge of cats. My cats not only dont bother the rabbits but I feed the cats in the sand bottomed colony and the rabbits come right up to the cats while they are eating to see if they have anything nice to eat. Rabbits make funny faces when tasting dry cat food :lol:

Once all my cages are in one place I am going to lock all the cats in with the rabbits at night and let them loose during the day. That way the cats are locked up safe and what remains of hte rat population should be kept at bay.

What with the raccoons and rats, I feel rather under attack right now :x

But with one young raccoon "resting" in the fridge for a fried 'coon dinner next week, a new trap ready to be set tonight and the cake mix bought to go with the plaster that I am buying tomorrow, the terminator with in me is a happy woman :twisted:

 

[3mina]

That is a very interesting observation about the calmness of tame rabbits not triggering off the hunting urge of cats. My cats not only dont bother the rabbits but I feed the cats in the sand bottomed colony and the rabbits come right up to the cats while they are eating to see if they have anything nice to eat. Rabbits make funny faces when tasting dry cat food :lol:

Once all my cages are in one place I am going to lock all the cats in with the rabbits at night and let them loose during the day. That way the cats are locked up safe and what remains of hte rat population should be kept at bay.

What with the raccoons and rats, I feel rather under attack right now :x

But with one young raccoon "resting" in the fridge for a fried 'coon dinner next week, a new trap ready to be set tonight and the cake mix bought to go with the plaster that I am buying tomorrow, the terminator with in me is a happy woman :twisted:

Hehehe....

 

[Stormy]

If you want to train them to come in at night for their hunting duties, ring a bell or make a distinctive whistle when you feed them.

I heard my neighbor calling their cat with this nice little whistle sound. Am I the only one that goes at the top of their lungs, HERE KITTY KITTY KITTY KITTYYYYYYYY!! HERE KITTY KITTY KITTY KITTY KITTYYYYYY! :thinking: :lol:

Garden Lady - Maybe so! I don't know where you live if its an issue... but if you call your cats the same way any stranger can, they can also cat-nap your cats for their own devious purposes. Unfortunately this happens all the time. Training a cat to respond to the common phrase "here, kitty kitty" can put him in danger of his life, because he'll respond favorably to the phrase he's used to from you.

When that was pointed out to me years ago by a woman who called her cat using "bunny", I stole that idea for my previous cats and called "buuuuunnnyyyy!!". For my dog, I clapped my hands in a certain way, which saved on my throat for yelling for her, and whistling is unreliable for me and with dogs timing can be critical. I also found it didn't attract people's attention to me - or my dog - because no one was even aware I was calling my dog!! So for correctional measures we went uncaught (like if she was somewhere she didn't belong...)

Nowadays, out in the country, I just call each cat by name or shake the hairball treat container to bring them all running!! The horse however, gets a special whistle

Now, armed with more possibilities... you can devise your own special call! (ps if you have food they learn really fast

 

[garden lady]

If you want to train them to come in at night for their hunting duties, ring a bell or make a distinctive whistle when you feed them.

I heard my neighbor calling their cat with this nice little whistle sound. Am I the only one that goes at the top of their lungs, HERE KITTY KITTY KITTY KITTYYYYYYYY!! HERE KITTY KITTY KITTY KITTY KITTYYYYYY! :thinking: :lol:

Garden Lady - Maybe so! I don't know where you live if its an issue... but if you call your cats the same way any stranger can, they can also cat-nap your cats for their own devious purposes. Unfortunately this happens all the time. Training a cat to respond to the common phrase "here, kitty kitty" can put him in danger of his life, because he'll respond favorably to the phrase he's used to from you.

When that was pointed out to me years ago by a woman who called her cat using "bunny", I stole that idea for my previous cats and called "buuuuunnnyyyy!!". For my dog, I clapped my hands in a certain way, which saved on my throat for yelling for her, and whistling is unreliable for me and with dogs timing can be critical. I also found it didn't attract people's attention to me - or my dog - because no one was even aware I was calling my dog!! So for correctional measures we went uncaught (like if she was somewhere she didn't belong...)

Nowadays, out in the country, I just call each cat by name or shake the hairball treat container to bring them all running!! The horse however, gets a special whistle

Now, armed with more possibilities... you can devise your own special call! (ps if you have food they learn really fast

The here kitty kitty came from my mother when I was a kid, so I guess she did that, so all my cats came to that over the years, but right now all we have for an outside cat is an 18 pound male that nobody could get near. He only lets my family and my brother near him. He would rip somebody to shreds if they actually could pick him up. His name is Mister and we do call here Mister, kitty kitty kitty. We have 2 other cats, but they do not go out. Times have changed from when I was a kid and cats and dogs ran loose. I was outside the other day and saw a police car turn around in the street and wondered what he was doing and realized he was following a dog. The dog went home with the police car going right in the driveway to talk to the owner. If I could get Mister to stay in the house I would, but that will never happen.

 

[Piper]

looks like a mix of Persian and Eygptian Black and White. I love Eygptian black and whites!
He is gorgeous!
- So, do you have to still use rat bait, or does he help take care of the rats?

 

[garden lady]

looks like a mix of Persian and Eygptian Black and White. I love Eygptian black and whites!
He is gorgeous!
- So, do you have to still use rat bait, or does he help take care of the rats?

We do not have rats or mice where we live now, but he takes care of the birds. :x I have moved all over. The place that had the rats was 30 years ago in Kansas.

 

[Stormy]

Beautiful cat!!

Yes, its funny how the times have changed... when I grew up we just let our dogs walk themselves all over the neighborhood!! Something we freak out about now when we see our neighbor's dogs!! (we are trying to keep the rabbits a secret from them.... shhh!)

 

[mystang89]

The very best rat control is a resident mink or weasel... but of course, once the rats are gone, they may turn on your chickens, rabbits etc. We have had three rat population explosions in the eleven years we have been here. In two cases, a mink and a weasel cleaned them out. I've often wondered if a domestic ferret could be trained for rat control.

The second best control, in my experience, is poison. You do need to be prepared to walk your area and dispose of dead or dying rats before your other critters can eat them and suffer secondary poisoning. Over a two week period, I gathered up about 30+ dead and dying rats when we put down poison. Yuck!

:yeahthat: a bit more of :yeahthat: with a side of :yeahthat:

Had the same problem..except it was with chicken run. Either way, I had to use poison and was out for the next couple of weeks cleaning dead corpses, some which started to really stink. Kinda bad timing because I'm trying to sell the house at the same time I'm trying to kill the rats but lucky for me.....no one is even calling to look at the house....lucky....me...
P.S. Poison