Rabbit zinger?

[Richard & Tresa]

Thanks Sal!

I've got a collection of the bands you use. Purchased a few different strengths for a toy prototype I created a few years back... Now if I can only remember where I put them! LOL! (In the line of work I do, I always buy extras of anything I buy for a project and keep them on hand for future projects. LOTS of components, parts and supplies stuffed into few cabinets! LOL))

What I hope to do, is make a new set of bands and test them on some wood (cross grain and with the grain = different hardness and resistance to the plunger), then I'll take some photos. Cut the wood in half so I can see a cross section of the penetration and measure the depth. If I can post the photos here so you can see them and give me your feedback as to what you think the effectiveness is regarding a sure kill, I would feel MUCH more comfortable using it for the first time.

I'm creating a special 24" x 24" cage with a large top opening door so I can reach in with the gun and pet their heads, getting them used to the actions and environment. I plan on placing a heavy board inside so there is no "spring" to the cage floor during impact, providing a solid retention of the head for a solid hit. I can put the "next in line for freezer camp" in it for a few days so they are more comfortable with less chance for "nervousness.

We only started keeping rabbits this past March, so although we've researched a LOT about keeping rabbits, we've been VERY apprehensive about lifting them out of their cages. We do reach in a lot and pet them, hand feed them treats etc.... We transfer them from cage to cage by using a much smaller cage that we lead them into with treats... Seems to work for everyone involved.

Thank you!

I have some quail chores to do this morning and then off to class. At age 60, I've gone back to school to earn my State Land Steward Certification at the university... (God! It's been decades since I've been in a classroom setting! Didn't realize the level/intensity of work I was getting myself into, but combined with Tresa's State Master Gardener Certificate (she teaches), it seemed like the perfect match.

OK... first cup of coffee this AM, writing too much, gotta get back to work before heading off to school...

And yes, I'm serious about offering help! It's the least I can do for your generous help!

Thanks!

Richard

 

[Salpizz]

I wanted to see how small I can make the Zinger. It's under 11" tip to tip and 1.12 pounds. Works great!
Minimal recoil. This is for my own personal use. Not trying to sell it.

 

[Richard & Tresa]

Holy Smokes!

I disappear for a little while and you have a whole new gun!!!!!

BEAUTIFUL! Reminds me of a crossbow!

Are you thinking about producing it at all? Maybe in the future? Sure looks very manageable! Do you have any issues with the bands slipping inward on the longer retention rods?

Wow!

OK... so here I am with mine:

After cutting down my "Zinger" inspired device, I found that my bands were too long (Very slack in the post-fired position. (Still getting the same distance of travel, just slack when the plunger is in the fired position.)

I created some new shorter bands... still not enough to pass .080" deep into a regular 2"X2" piece of wood.

So I created a 3rd set of bands... Must have gotten tired because the line I used (Kevlar re-enforced 60# braided fishing line), was not tight enough around the bands and they started slipping where they were tied and became slack again.

I started over and created a new set of bands with the same shorter distance. This time I glued the ends coming into contact with "Barge" (Great cement if you're not familiar with it... used for shoe repair and it has a tenacious grip.) I also tied the lines really tight and added a second retaining band of line at each end.

No more slippage!

Fires great but I'm getting less than the original 1/8" to 1/4" depth strike of my larger first version.

The photos attached are striking cross grain and with/into the grain. I figured that the cross grain would give way more and that it would be harder to penetrate going into the grain (makes sense?). Either way, I'm getting .080" to .100" depths (1/8" = .125")

Do you think this will be enough to dispatch a rabbit? You mentioned that you thought 1/8" was more than enough for a Fryer.. Is there a difference in skull thickness/toughness between a 12 week old Fryer (That's how old ours are now and I'm hoping to send most of them to "Freezer Camp" this weekend.) and the difference with the skull of an older "Roaster". We're hoping to wait on three of them to grow a little more to use for Roasting recipes we want to try.

Thanks for any advice you can offer! (I plan on ordering the type of bands you use as I know they're stronger and better suited for this purpose, but all I have for now is surgical tubing.)

Best Always,

Richard

BTY: I drew some lines to follow/aim for and I am getting near perfect strikes regarding accuracy. No jump/recoil at all!

 

[Salpizz]

I think once you get the new rubber you will be able to make better bands that will recover better than surgical tubing. I would shorten your tube length and also bring your termination points about 2" toward the back of the stunner. I emailed you on how you can test this by making a loop of paracord on each side and then if it's better you can move the screws. Fryers are going to be no problem. Roasters maybe require more powerful bands but your going to have to try it. I like to err on the side of overdoing it to be sure. About my new stunner. I'm not planning on selling it but I may take something away from it and eventually use that information to help me make some improvements and a new Zinger eventually.

Check out my video...
http://youtu.be/k_X43JV032E

 

[GBov]

We only started keeping rabbits this past March, so although we've researched a LOT about keeping rabbits, we've been VERY apprehensive about lifting them out of their cages. We do reach in a lot and pet them, hand feed them treats etc.... We transfer them from cage to cage by using a much smaller cage that we lead them into with treats... Seems to work for everyone involved.

Richard

I know nothing about zingers but I can HIGHLY recommend welding gloves with the tips of the fingers cut off for handling your rabbits. Those plus a light canvas jacket made my life so much easier! Even with the best will in the world, my buns cant hurt me any more. :lol:

The zinger looks a fab tool though!

 

[Salpizz]

Yes, rabbits can rip you up especially your wrists and forearms.

So, Richard when are you going to process?

 

[Richard & Tresa]

Hello all...

What a day... This was our first time killing a warm blooded animal (Besides our first Quail a month or two ago... Tey seemed easier to do than our anticipation of having to dispatch our "furry" rabbits.).

All our creatures here are treated the very best we can (Quail, Tilapia, Chickens and...Rabbits)... All our rabbits get toys (cat balls with bells, Medium sized planting pots to crawl into and throw around their cages, Toilet paper tubes stuffed with Hay), We pet them, talk to them... We don't name them though.

Sal, I sent you an email describing our experience (I thought I'd add it here below this post to share with everyone else here). What really had the greatest impact from our first experience was our heart felt reactions... We decided to add rabbits to our Urban Homestead to provide meat protein... We began with Tilapia in aquaponic systems (no problem since we both love fishing.), We then discovered rabbits and started our rabbitry in March of this year. (The rabbits we dispatched yesterday were from our first kindle.) We then got into breeding/raising Quail and entered into "Harvesting" for meat way before the rabbits were ready... The first dispatches were hard for me (Tresa watched and provided moral support and did final cleaning and packaging.) After the first one, the rest were "easier"... I sent 12 of them to "Freezer Camp" that day... Felt better about the process especially when the roosters start crowing and never stop (LOL! Yes, I can still smile).

I dispatched another dozen Quail on Friday. They were scheduled to go and I also thought that processing them before the rabbits would help emotionally. It did... But, Oh My God! the morning of our rabbit dispatch, we were both in tears... We talked a lot about it, brought our mindsets back to what the whole intent and purpose was for raising rabbits...

After spending the morning preparing, building tools, sharpening blades, finalizing the set up of our dispatch area, we finally got down to no more procrastination, no more reasons not to...

All I can say is that Sal's "Zinger" is DEFINITELY worth the money!!! I researched for months on different methods for dispatching... I didn't like the idea of manhandling them for the Wringer, or hitting them over the head, or breaking their necks like Grumpy does... I even designed a guillotine thinking that might be the most humane way... That's when I discovered Sal's Zinger...

I was in between client prototype projects and with a complete shop/studio, I figured I could build my own... I've already shared that after building mine, I realized just how much work Sal put into designing, testing and figuring out how to produce his "Zinger"... I still feel that if I had not already gone past building my won version, my time would have been better spent building more cages and purchasing his "Zinger"... My GREATEST fear was that my version would not provide a clean, instant kill. Eliminating THAT stress alone would have been worth his price!

After three kills, Tresa was in tears... it just felt like we had altered our home/urban homestead sanctuary/paradise, into a slaughter house... it was too much for the both of us. We decided to wait to dispatch the rest today...

I woke up in tears not wanting to dispatch any today... We just finished talking and sharing about our experience and what I discovered, was that for me, the pain, the sadness, the tears... was about having "lost my innocence... Killing those rabbits (My first ever) took away my innocence... Something that could never be undone, never able to go back in time and make "good"... We decided to not kill the rest today... Our refrigerator is filled with soaking Quail meat, Rabbit meat and Rabbit "gizzards"... It helped bring us back to our intent of self sustainability, providing healthy meat for our family and getting better connected to our meat rather than just buying meat from the store in Styrofoam trays wrapped in plastic knowing these animal were not raised well, treated humanely and were filled with hormones, antibiotics and who knows what.

We got three new cages for free on Craigslist and will clean them up and prep them to separate the bunnies we have left to dispatch. We will finish butchering, packaging and freezing our meat this week and I think that will complete the cycle of our intent. Tresa added that for her, it will be much like the quail... For her, sitting down to a rabbit meal will complete her cycle... I agree.

We will probably finish harvesting the three fryers next week. I think we will be better prepared in every way.

Instead of dispatching the rest of the rabbit yesterday, we bred our young CA/NZW yesterday... A MUCH better way to end the day and a further act of determination to continue our intent on raising rabbits for meat...

I just know for certain, that if it had not been for Sal and his "Zinger" (Inspiration and guidance for building our own), things could have gone a lot worse!)

Sorry if I seem per-occupied in my post here regarding the emotional aspects of dispatching a rabbit, but I strongly feel that none of us would be here discussing Sal's "Zinger", if were were not looking for the most humane and instant method to dispatch a meat rabbit. I shared this here for others who might be in the same place we were yesterday and intimidated in any way about dispatching and harvesting rabbits, more from a heartfelt place, but definitely from a position of wanting to guarantee an instant and clean, stress free method of dispatching their rabbits...

The "Zinger" HAS TO BE the best way to go!

Thank you again Sal! (From the BOTH of us!)

Emailed you directly Saturday evening:

Hi Sal,

I again want to thank you from the bottom of my (Our) hearts for inventing your Zinger and supporting my building my own, sharing information, advising, and providing moral support!

You could not have been more generous, kind or gracious...

We planned on dispatching four today... We didn't get started until late... I built a special top loading holding cage for dispatching so they could get used to hands coming in from the top and have room for our version of your "Zinger" to extend up beyond the cage roof. This way, they didn't have to deal with the stress of being moved right before dispatching. I have been petting them on their heads getting them used to the process where I could move from petting them with my hand to replacing it with the gun... Early this morning, I went to pet the first one and he started licking me. From what I've read, this is the highest form of rabbit affection from pet rabbits...

I shared with Tresa when she woke up and we cried our hearts out for quite a while realizing what we were committed to do... (It's just who we are...)

We had everything set up... I hand sharpened the knives I planned to use so they could cut a piece of paper like a razor blade. I built a gambrel with hooks to use para-cord loops to hang them by their legs and put together an old sailing block and tackle to lift and lower while butchering (We studied "Grumpy's" video on RT... We even set up a laptop computer so we could watch his video, pause and continue as I cleaned them.)

By the third one, I didn't need the guide anymore. I cut a sheet of plastic to line the bottom of the kill cage so that if there were any resistance, they wouldn't be able to get any traction that might have moved their heads at the wrong moment... Much easier to hold still. (Two went into that head rubbing bliss when I stroked their heads with the device, the third was not so used to being rubbed... placed some treats on the plastic floor, waited until he went for it and then held his head down for a split second before firing...

Bottom line: The first strike on all rabbits were instant kill strikes (I even had my 22 pistol with hollow points ready just in case)... If I had any doubts that these first strikes were not clean kills, I would have switched to the pistol... Of the three I dispatched, two strikes penetrated with massive bleeding. Kind of "messy" BUT, I was so glad that they did as it confirmed a massive head/brain trauma that could only have mean instant death...

I trust this device for future dispatching (I will certainly order the Green bands and replace the bands I have now...) I can only imagine how much better, your original works compared to mine... I still have a bit of force on the trigger pull, but not enough to interfere with using it.

After three kills and cleaning, Tresa lost it emotionally. I held her and I shared that we might be better off to wait until tomorrow for the last. (We are saving three for holiday roasters, leaving three more to dispatch as fryers.)

Just wanted to share how it went and to thank you SO MUCH!

Hugs from us both!

Best Always,

Richard & Tresa

 

[Miss M]

I totally understand stopping and saving the rest for another day. Every one of us who raises meat rabbits has had a first dispatching day. For a few, it goes off without a hitch. For most, it's very difficult. But having your first meal of rabbit that you raised and butchered yourself does complete the circle. It brings you around to your goal. It helps you focus more clearly on that goal, which makes it easier to continue.

It's never fun, and it shouldn't be. But it does get easier.

 

[Richard & Tresa]

Miss M,

Thank you for your heart felt post... I was like you wrapped your arms around me... no words... Just re-assurance that I'm not a "bad-man", that I'm not wrong for what I've done, that I'm not alone and that many have similar reactions...

As the day went on today, I completed three new small grow out cages to separate our bunnies (11 weeks old), reducing the pressure to dispatch sooner than later... (Still "planning" on next weekend)... Most of all I contemplated my emotions, shared back and forth with Tresa as we worked with the Quail and Chickens...

I now understand for certain that what I am feeling is my "loss of innocence" and it has changed me forever... I know this part would be hard when we made the decision to raise meat rabbits... I wasn't sure how I would feel afterwards (never stepped into this with rose colored glasses... we really "knew" what we were getting into when we chose this path... I just never "KNEW" I would be effected so deeply... (I'm the guy who picks up dove chicks that have fallen out of their nests, puts them into a shoe box under a lamp and then cry when they die... My wife considers me similar to a crusty candy bar... Crunchy outside at times, but "gooey" on the inside.

I am totally committed to continuing our urban homesteading path which includes this difficult task... I also know that I will not distance myself from our grow-out bunnies... (After I transferred the rabbits today so that each one had an individual cage, i spent time with each one, giving them treats, talking to them, petting them if the let me, (pushing a little, but not to the point of stressing them...) Just connecting deeper, giving them toilet paper roll tubes filled with hay and watching them play and boink... I know that for me, this interaction (no matter how hard it makes the task of dispatching them), will always be a part of how I love them, how I respect them and how I show my gratitude for their sacrifice for our personal sustenance... It's why I am on this thread: to find the most humane way to dispatch a rabbit...

In my mind (not my heart), I know this part of the cycle will be easier.... and I'm committed to making this a reality, but (I love this part of what you shared): "It should never be "fun"... but it will get easier."

Thank you so much for your support.

Richard & Tresa

 

[grumpy]

I like the analogy, "crusty-candy bar" . That hits closer to home than I'd
like to admit.

Keep in mind, as the youngster's age out, watch their weight like a hawk.
I've been the "odd-man-out" on this opinion more than once or twice.
Myself, I prefer a fryer that weighs 4#4oz to 4#6oz when I dress
them. Again, that's just my preference. That and a dollar will buy you a cup
of coffee. ????Somewhere???? :x

My customers over the years have become accustomed to this size.
It's a sure guarantee, that the meat will be nice and tender when it's fried
like chicken. Super-good too.

BTW: SAVE THE LIVER'S..!!! They are awesome.

grumpy.

 

[Richard & Tresa]

Regarding dressed out weights:

Our three dressed out weights averaged 3lbs, 4oz... I did a pretty good job dressing them out with very little to no meat loss. We saved the livers, hearts and kidneys but the weights do not reflect those.

They were harvested at 11 weeks. (We don't have the means to weight them live yet.)

Seems like they were small for their age? We have them on 18% free feed pellets and free feed hay (alfalfa mix).

This morning, we started feeding three of the six we have left to harvest, 1 tbsp each of Calf Manna, BOSS and Oatmeal (not instant) in an effort to get them to grow faster.

Is this a good idea? Any other ideas or advice greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Recovering emotionally... Guess it was just something I had to go through, experience the emotions and stay on track. Definitely choosing to stay connected with the grow out bunnies until the end. Looking at dispatching them now as ushering or escorting them out of this world much the same as we did when we handled and hand fed (a couple runts), when they came into this world. (Tresa's doing much better now too...) Looking forward to cutting up and freezing the whole rabbits soaking in the refrigerator, vacuum sealing them and putting them in our freezer, (setting aside our first home grown portions for a meal this week to complete the cycle).

We may or may not dispatch three more depending on what I learn about growing them out faster.

Thanks!

Richard

 

[Zass]

Regarding dressed out weights:

Our three dressed out weights averaged 3lbs, 4oz... I did a pretty good job dressing them out with very little to no meat loss. We saved the livers, hearts and kidneys but the weights do not reflect those.

They were harvested at 11 weeks. (We don't have the means to weight them live yet.)

Seems like they were small for their age? We have them on 18% free feed pellets and free feed hay (alfalfa mix).

This morning, we started feeding three of the six we have left to harvest, 1 tbsp each of Calf Manna, BOSS and Oatmeal (not instant) in an effort to get them to grow faster.

Is this a good idea? Any other ideas or advice greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Recovering emotionally... Guess it was just something I had to go through, experience the emotions and stay on track. Definitely choosing to stay connected with the grow out bunnies until the end. Looking at dispatching them now as ushering or escorting them out of this world much the same as we did when we handled and hand fed (a couple runts), when they came into this world. (Tresa's doing much better now too...) Looking forward to cutting up and freezing the whole rabbits soaking in the refrigerator, vacuum sealing them and putting them in our freezer, (setting aside our first home grown portions for a meal this week to complete the cycle).

We may or may not dispatch three more depending on what I learn about growing them out faster.

Thanks!

Richard

You will get a lot more opinions on this if you start a new thread.

I know I have a lot to say on the subject, but I don't want to de-rail the rabbit zinger thread with it.

 

[Richard & Tresa]

Ooops!

Was still on my first cup of coffee... Didn't think about thread derailment.

Sorry!

I will indeed start a new thread (I've used the search tool but couldn't find what I was looking for.)

Thanks!

Richard <br /><br /> __________ Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:27 am __________ <br /><br /> The last time (my first) I dispatched 3 of our 9 meat rabbits, I (we) were emotionally devastated.

Yesterday, I finished 5 more (We decided to keep one doe for breeder).

I was so much better! Actually... I was fine! No emotional blockages... I spoke to all of them, petted them, gave them a few last treats as part of keeping them calm right up until the end. Discovering my loss of innocence really helped me get a grip on what and why I experienced what I did during my first 3 dispatches... This time, it was all about getting them in the freezer...

I haven't turned cold or loss of heart, just realizing our intent and realizing that dispatching them is all part of the "cycle". Even this morning, the day after, I'm not carrying any emotional residue...

It has been almost a month later (I had so much client work to do... and yeah, I was apprehensive about re-living the pain and sorrow), and they had grown so much more! (Roasters instead of fryers)...

Maybe having 2 rabbit dishes on our Thanksgiving table had something to do with it... Either way, we're breeding one of our does this or next weekend.

Thanks Sal! I would never consider using any other device to dispatch our rabbits... Quick, clean, instant and reliable!

Thanks to others who helped with moral support! We're back on track raising some great meat for our table!

Best,
Richard