Rabbit zinger?

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Gearmpr

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Hey everyone, so I really really really like the rabbit zinger, it dispatches the rabbit instantly via killing the brain. Killing the rabbit without any stress or pain. Unfortunately the thing costs $300 which is more than this cowboy can afford! So, being a fabricator/mechanic for a profession, I've been thinking about making my own! It's really a quite simple function and design. I'm thinking about using one 7/8" pipe with a washer tacked on the bottom. Another 3/4" pipe on the inside to be used as the bolt. Milling the bottom 1.5" of the bolt to a 1/2" diameter (to protrude through the washer and stopping on it's shoulders) and using a 6" #49 compression spring as a propellant. The trigger will lock into a notch on the side of the bolt, I'll probably use a nail with a 90degree bend and another 145degree bend. I haven't worked out anything on paper yet, that's just in my head. I want something to kill instantly without the cost (or hunting for) .22 bullets, no throat slitting or breaking of the neck (in my mind they suffer, even if it might be .006 seconds). I want instant brain kill. Any suggestions on a good contraption? And of course, I'll always test the device on a already dead rabbit. <br /><br /> __________ Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:23 am __________ <br /><br /> The inside 3/4" is actually a solid round bar, idk why I said pipe
 
The rabbit zinger is what I want to use for the same reason you state. We already dispatch other livestock on the farm with either a gun or captive bolt gun and I am more comfortable using that method than attempting to break the rabbits' necks.

Unfortunately, I can not give you feedback on your idea of constructing a similar device at home. My neighbor uses a .22 pistol, but then you have to buy ammu and then there is the noise ...

I have decided to bite the bullet, so to speak, and will buy the brand name prefabricated device and look at it as an investment. My rabbits should be able to re-coup the cost quickly either by live sales or carcass sales. Maybe a little garage sale to raise the funds to get the proven equipment?
 
Gearmpr":25nw4dbh said:
So, being a fabricator/mechanic for a profession, I've been thinking about making my own! It's really a quite simple function and design.

I'd love to see if you can pull it off. I did buy one myself and I'm happy that I have it, but I do feel that the zinger is crazy expensive. It really should be a $50-$75 device. Please keep us posted on how you make out.

Here is a video of me using the zinger...

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DF12Wf_zm8&list=TLFC36WjcyAIfoObDDz8WWVtiV3T2kkH1H[/youtube]
 
silver0202":1y59ic2e said:
Gearmpr":1y59ic2e said:
So, being a fabricator/mechanic for a profession, I've been thinking about making my own! It's really a quite simple function and design.

I'd love to see if you can pull it off. I did buy one myself and I'm happy that I have it, but I do feel that the zinger is crazy expensive. It really should be a $50-$75 device. Please keep us posted on how you make out.

Here is a video of me using the zinger...

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DF12Wf_zm8&list=TLFC36WjcyAIfoObDDz8WWVtiV3T2kkH1H[/youtube]


I agree, wayyy overpriced. When I get my materials and my design down I'll be sure to take pictures. Then all I'll have to do is figure how to get them from my iPhone on to here lol.
 
Hello everyone.

I just finished building one from scratch.

My background: 25+years as a professional designer, engineer, prototype developer, motion picture special effects artist. I have a large shop and studio with every imaginable tool available.

I studied the videos and images to extrapolate sizes with a goal to produce a much cheaper (DIY) version (At first, thinking like most here that $300 was too much to charge. I've since changed my mind.) My first choice was extensive use of plastics in an effort to lower cost and time to produce. That failed. My final version (although different in some ways), followed the original design.

Something no one here has taken into consideration is how much time the original designer put into developing, drawing, laying out, calculating mass of the plunger AND the handle (There is a ratio there that is vital. Too heavy a plunger and it won't travel fast enough (velocity), too light a plunger and it won't penetrate. Too light ahandle, and the recoil will pull it up off the rabbit. Too heavy for both and the device becomes difficult to control. Other issues that had to be overcome are the trigger geometry with regards to the plunger release. Even the bungee cords are made from a special rubber (not just surgical tubing.).

It took a LOT of time to develop this device and no one seems to take this into consideration when thinking that this is "way overpriced"... We haven't even begun to talk about the materials (Stainless steel is not cheap)... Metal takes time to machine as do the plastic components. I am guesstimating the inventor is barely breaking even producing these devices!

My hat is off to him (I visited his website but could not find his name... If you are here, please PM me. I would be glad to share some design features of my version and would be glad to just give them to you if you can use them (without charge) as my humble way of thanking you for pioneering this project.

Bottom line: $300 is CHEAP when considering all that has gone into its development and how much work goes into producing them. If I were to charge for my time building this from scratch, I would be charging at least $1,500! (Really!) (I had some time off in between client projects and after months of research, I decided that the "Rabbit Zinger" was the most humane way to dispatch a rabbit with the least amount of stress and the most amount of certainty regarding immediate knock down.) I don't have a lot of money to spend and with time on my hands I decided to build my own. My time could have been better spent on other tasks I need to do around here.)

Note: This may seem like an ad for promoting this device... It's NOT! I don't even know the inventor's name.... My only "knowledge" regarding performance was watching a you tube video of the original device plunging into a piece of wood. From that info alone, I figured mine had to penetrate the wood by at least 1/4" to 3/8" in order to be effective. I have yet to test mine out and will do so first on a dead animal.

To the inventor, my appreciative thank you. To everyone else here... There is a LOT more that went into this that meets the eye and if you're thinking about building one on your own, I suggest you reconsider.

Another note: My name is no more client patents than I can count. I have been recognized nationally as a leading designer/engineer/builder by Time Magazine, Business Week, ISDA and many other organizations. One of my pieces is no permanent display at the New York Museum of Modern Art. (Not bragging, just wanted to share some insight into the source of this post. I have a lot of experience developing products of all sorts.)

I wish everyone the best.

Richard
 
I agree, I too have been trying to figure weight mass and velocity ratios. I did see the video with the penetration to the wood face and that's what I've been trying to mimic without making my device too bulky. I'm still in my design phase, I've been mulling it over with a few engineers I know from my previous lines of work. I have yet to find time to build my prototype. Hopefully I can make something that's effective, even if it is 20lbs :p lol I appreciate everyone's input, though I'm stubborn as a mule and I'll probably spend more time and money striving after the wind haha. The concept just seems too simple for me to give up :/ maybe I'm OCD? Regardless, I'll let y'all know how it comes out when I get it finished finally. I still have a good while before I'll need it
 
I understand the "stubbornness" thing... Especially since it "Seems" so simple!

Even for me with 25+ years of defying the laws of physics creating impossible prototypes for all sorts of clients, I "thought" (like you), that this had to be easy...

Holy smokes! There was so much thought and engineering to get Sal's original design to work! The geometry alone for the trigger interaction with the plunger!!!! I don't like mine at all and will have to try some modifications to get it to release easier... The problem is, in doing so, I run the risk of creating a "hair trigger" or worse: a bolt that might accidentally release on its own!

Once I got into building mine, the "stubbornness kicked in and I just turn back... Now I'm faced with a device that might not work correctly and the point of this device was to have a tool that works flawlessly... I just don't even want to imagine an experience where it doesn't kill the rabbit on the first, immediate pull of the trigger... (I would be heart-broken!)

I contacted Sal (He's a really nice guy!)... I was really impressed with his work and he shared some photos of his next generation Rabbit Zinger and gave me permission to post them here... Talk about SLICK!!!! He's using water jet cutting and polishing to get these components looking so great!

New design, 1.jpg



If I had it to do over again... I think I would have waited until I had the money and pay whatever he was charging just to know that I had a proven design/tool that I could count on...

Back to work here around our homestead... and more time trying to get my captive bolt gun to work easier... There's going to be some more machining for certain... Probably some different elastic bands as well... I also see where I need to add some "mass" to the main body to keep the thing from recoiling... (As it is now, when I fire, there is a tendency for the whole thing to hop (no pun intended LOL!) up in the air which means although I might have the device located at the exact position I want, it could easily move anywhere (maybe even missing the head?) when I fire it...

Hope this helps... I REALLY understand the drive that goes behind "I'm sure I can build this thing"... I was CERTAIN it would be "easy"... Ha!

I know I'm not going to use it on a live rabbit until I can figure out how to make this thing stand still when I fire it.

Best,
Richard
 

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Wow I really appreciate all the digging you've done, can you post pics of what your device looks like? With mine I'm basing my design sorta after the bolt gun used to put down a cow, my propulsion I'm attempting to use compression coils, possibly two staged. My trigger I haven't thought too much on yet, probably something like a fishhook design or pull pin. It'll look like a caveman built it haha, but I'm not worried about aesthetics as I am with function. Like you, if a rabbit suffers, I don't think I could ever kill another. I haven't thought about using plastics, I'm using black steel, aluminum and hard Teflon. My wife is mad at me for having so many projects :p
 
Hi Gearmpr,

I really don't feel comfortable posting photos of my version of Sal's Rabbit Zinger. It's too close to his design and I really respect Sal and his work... (If he comes here on this thread and grants me permission I would)...

However... I am having problems with mine (especially with the trigger release) and using my version as a guide would definitely lead you astray (leading you to have the same problems I'm experiencing! I think the real "trick" to an easy and secure trigger release is getting the geometry (pivot point) between the trigger and the plunger block is critical! I now see where I got it wrong.

I also think I made mine a little shorter (Big mistake!) The shorter length of travel of the plunger, the height of the starting point for the plunger are also critical resulting in my having to use more powerful elastic bands which may be part of what is contributing to the recoil effect. Because I made mine shorter, there is less mass in the handle tube and when I release my plunger, the recoil lifts the business end up off the test wood and I have yet to have a direct/accurate strike on my target... Really scared to use mine as it is because of fear of missing the correct impact spot on the rabbit's skull. (The thought of a miss would break my heart!)

I can see where a spring loaded device might work... however... The tension for pushing/pulling the plunger also plays into the effectiveness. All I can share is that being able to penetrate a standard (non-hardened) 2 X 4 at LEAST 1/8" and preferably 1/4" is your goal. (I exchanged emails with Sal and he shared that my penetration depths "should do the job". I trust him, but in my line of work creating client prototypes, "Should" is a word that leaves room for lots of mistakes. I don't want to make a mistake on dispatching a rabbit, Hence, I'm still trying to "fix" mine so that I reach at least 1/4" penetration without having the recoil "jump" the business end off target. I may even cast a piece of lead to attach to the main tube to see if more mass helps suppress the recoil effect.

Stepping back and looking at mine vs the videos of his working, I can see where this device is like creating a small, automatic hammer. Too heavy a hammer, the more power you need to use it, too small a hammer and it fires easily, but would it have the mass to penetrate the skull. Super fine line to hold... Very much like going to a hardware store and picking out the right hammer for the job. I have sledge hammers out back, a smaller one in the shed and at least a half dozen other sized hammers in the shop. In my studio, I have another half dozen hammers going down in size to "jeweler's hammers" that do not have the mass of the others, but can strike a smaller item accurately without damaging surrounding areas... I have no idea how heavy Sal's plunger is, so I can't be more specific than that (I didn't even think to weigh mine and if I did, I have no idea if that measurement would help considering the problems I'm experiencing. I can share that the diameter of my plunger is just under 1/2" (I had to machine it in a lathe to get it to fit inside of the 1/2" ID tube I found to use as my handle. I don't know the diameter of Sal's plunger.

I do hope this helps?

I hope you understand my respect for Sal and my professional concerns regarding my feeling uncomfortable with posting photos of my version as well as my knowing that copying mine would most definitely lead you in the wrong direction.

I would be happy to offer comments/advice (as I have here) in supporting your efforts to construct your own personal-use device...

Best,
Richard
 
Richard, et al :)....

I appreciate your respect and I am happy to help you out if I can without giving away something I would consider "trade secrets". Richard, I have no problem with you showing your device, but I appreciate your you asking. Maybe say something like "here is my Rabbit Zinger inspired homebuilt device" and I'd be more than appreciative.

My bolt diameter is 7/16" off the shelf.

Richard, 1/4" is overkill for fryers. If you are getting 1/8" depression that sounds sufficient.

I have thought a lot on how I can make the Zinger for a lot cheaper and bottom line is I cannot. I can make a version with a simpler trigger mechanism but it's not professional or reliable enough for me to sell. There's just too many steps that can't be skipped, so instead of making the Zinger cheaper I've designed a simpler device which delivers the same results as reliably as the Zinger and it's something that will be under $200.00.

Regards,
Sal Pizzurro
Pizzcorp.com
 
Huge smile here and goose bumps!

Sal, You're wonderful! SO GENEROUS to offer any info for those that cannot afford to purchase your incredible invention!

My plunger was 1/2" diameter (I had no real measurements to go for and that was the stainless steel rod that was available off the shelf at the local metal supply source.)

Glad to know (and so appreciative for you to share), that 1/4" is beyond what I need to do the job! (Makes me feel more comfortable.)

Now all I have to address is my device "jumping" up (recoil) when I fire. First I need to correct the geometry of my trigger... (Too much force to release it and I loose control over my device.)

Once I get an easier/lighter trigger pull, I will address the recoil by molding a lead bar that wraps partially around my barrel (behind the upwards portion of my plunger release screw), so that it conforms to the outer form of the barrel, is narrow and rests along the barrel. I believe adding this mass will help hold the device still while the plunger is released.

Geeze!!!! You had to have gone through quite a few preliminary prototypes to get your Rabbit Zinger refined!!!!! After building mine, I TOTALLY understand and agree with you regarding the price... As I shared before, if I were to attempt to manufacture this, I just couldn't see how you were doing it and even breaking even! There is a LOT of work that goes into this and with your new version, well... What can I say? It's a piece of art!

So, with your permission, I will post my captive bolt gun TOTALLY inspired by your "Rabbit Zinger"... Very similar but I took short cuts that were easier for me to deal with in my shop and time available...

Since the closest I could guesstimate the plunger diameter, I chose 1/2" diameter (I really didn't have a choice.)... I still had to machine it on a lather to get it a little smaller to fit into the 1/2" thick wall aluminum tube.

I thought that there might be a recoil issue so I also purchased a larger diameter aluminum tube to go around it. I made linear runners that held the inner tube lined up with the outer tube. I then poured a high temp, high mass resin (The grey ring in between the two tubes), to hold everything together and add more mass.

I didn't have anything to bend a thick handle like yours, so I inserted a small length of SS tube for a thinner SS rod handle to fit in. I don't have the equipment to weld Stainless, so I used JB Weld. There is a space where the two ends of the SS handle meet. The springs around the handle hold the handle in place. I roughed the tube and rod so that it would not pivot during firing. When the handle is pulled to one side, the elastic band can be slipped off or put back on. Pull in the other direction and you can do the same with the second band.

The handle and handle pivot unit was machined (Much easier to machine aluminum than your nice Stainless Steel. Again, attached with JB Weld.

The location of my handle, the trigger and the release bolt are WAY OFF! There is too much force needed to pull the trigger and not enough leverage (distance) to do it easy... Still working on that. The result is, that with the force needed to pull the trigger, when it does release the plunger, the knuckles on my other fingers gripping the handle get whacked something awful! (LOL!) It would be hard enough for me to worry about dispatching a rabbit AND worry about how much it's going to hurt me!!!! I've since added a second screw through the pivot point location and machined a slide with a stop so that no matter how hard you pull, the handle stops before striking my knuckles. (Whew!) Now I can hold on and not worry...

Again, I think my biggest mistake was getting the geometry on the trigger/plunger release wrong. When I test the plunger release without the bands, I see that pulling the trigger raises the plunger a few thousandths of an inch... THAT is what I'm fighting. I'm slowly machining the plunger hold screw so that the angle conforms to the arc of the trigger pull... If i go too far, I will create a hair trigger or worse: create the possibility for an accidental/unintentional "misfire"...

These are part of the reasons I didn't want to post photos of mine... If you copied mine, you would be in the same regrettable spot I find myself in now...

Sal: Again, I thank you from the bottom of my heart (and Tresa's) for inventing your "Rabbit Zinger" and posting here on RT offering help!

OK... Back to work here... Today's afternoon project is building a small Top loading rabbit cage. The purpose: A "holding cage" where we can pet the candidate for "freezer camp". We find that when giving treats, our rabbits LOVE being petted on the top of their heads, exactly where the "Rabbit Zinger is supposed to fire... They go into a blissful trance, holding still and almost always, forgoing ANY treat we offer them, wanting to be petted instead. There's a place on our back porch where I do a lot of farm stuff building and I can give them LOTS of attention, talking to them, giving them veggies from the garden and petting their heads. We don't have a lot of rabbits (current kindle approaching freezer camp day is 9). We don't feel we need to do them all at once, so this will work for us.

Thank you Sal! :)

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Richard,

I'm thinking of how you can improve your stunner without starting from scratch again. If you can move the trigger assembly behind the tube attachments, you would solve the problem of hitting your fingers. I would then shorten the trigger on the back side about an inch to start keeping the same hole in the barrel. Instead of the pin being perpendicular to the barrel it should be on a slight angle which you have if you drill at a 90 degree angle to the top line of your trigger. I hope I explained that clearly enough :)

__________ Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:08 pm __________

Did you cut out a groove in your bolt for the pin to catch on? I also think your bolt is too heavy.

Your trigger is very attractive by the way, very fancy ;-)
 
Hi Sal,

Thanks for the advice!

After the work I have put into this, There's NO WAY I'm starting from scratch!

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!! Really laughing my head off in hysterics just thinking about it! :lol:

I don't have photos, but I have a stop in place to keep the trigger from going all the way down onto my knuckles. Another screw through the pivot support closer to the main body, but up inside where the trigger is. I machined a slot in the trigger so that it lined up so that the trigger comes down to the handle far enough to release the plunger, but NOT enough to hit my knuckles! (Whew!)

I do understand the angle of the stop screw... That's what I'm working on now... not enough angle and it gets caught working against the pull of the bands... Too much of an angle and it might slip off (pushed out by the plunger).

Yes I do have a slot machined into the plunger/bolt so that when you pull up on the handle, the stop screw automatically locks in place via the black "O" ring.

The trigger assembly is locked in place via JB Weld. I roughed up the surfaces so that it's not going anywhere... If what I'm trying to do doesn't work, I may make a second trigger so that the distance of the plunger stop screw is closer to the pivot point (more leverage), BUT that would change the angle of the stop screw pivot which I think might make the problem worse... (Not worried, I'm REALLY close by filing the stop screw angle so it slides out without lifting the plunger up against the bands.... really close! =D)

Thank You for the advice AND your kind words!

Richard

PS: Just read your suggesting that the bolt is too heavy... That would explain the recoil. I know I have enough of the bolt sticking out at the business end, so I could possibly cut off an inch or so at the handle and then just re-drill the plunger for the SS Tube and re-insert the handle...

How much of the bolt do you suggest sticks out after firing? I could subtract that from my distance if it's too long (And/or cut off a little bit of the tube at both ends to make up any difference... The travel/inertia would still be the same and I'd be able to shave off some weight on the bolt... (Make sense? Steal a little here, give a little there... It all ads up and the SS bolt is heavy, so even an inch shorter would make a big difference in weight.

Thanks again!

You're my hero! =D
:)
 
:) I think I'd want the bolt protruding around 1.25" out of the barrel. My Zinger is designed to be a non penetrating captive bolt so it doesn't have to stick out too far. It's just out further in case the stunner is not kept firmly enough against the rabbit's head it allows for a little bit of error.
 
Why are you having trouble with the jerking? Can't you lessen your mass(1.25"?) and impact area (maybe 1/8" for a 2" span?)? Probably will give you more room to propel your bolt. well hopefully I can to work on mine soon, maybe I can get something out of it :p I might not be in special effects, but I do deal with the Feds inspecting all my fabrication and electrical work lol they can be pretty bullheaded.
 
I don't understand your post, sorry :(

You guys got me wanting to design a simpler one now just to see if I can ... :) back to the drawing board.
 
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D

WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D

THANK YOU SAL!

So here's what I did:

I shortened the bolt from 14" total length, to 11 1/2" total length Mostly at the handle and a little bit at the strike point. The total wight for the bolt went from 12.25 oz down to 9.94 oz. (That's a huge reduction in mass!)

I shortened the handle (Main tube body) by 2" at the back where the handle is. The weight of the handle went from 16.22 oz down to 14.32 oz. Not much of a weight loss, but that's what I was hoping for since my tube/body is mostly aluminum.

I gained 2" more travel for the bolt. Great to provide more distance to gain momentum.

I have a strike depth of 1 5/16". (Just over the 1 1/4" you suggested). I kept the slightly pointed beveled tip still thinking that upon impact, the smaller tip striking first has a higher pounds-per-square inch and therefore, better to penetrate/crack the skull. (I was concerned about your suggestion that the 1 1/4" would be fine for "friers"... We plan to let a few of our rabbits grow a little more specifically for roasters... Do their skulls get thicker/stronger as they grow older? I didn't want to take a chance which is why I kept the slightly pointed tip... Shouldn't penetrate the skin (wasn't my intent), but may make a difference striking a stronger skull?

I reworked my bolt retention screw crating a very slight arc that lines up with the pivot point of the trigger.

The force now needed on the trigger to pull the retention screw out of the bolt slot is effortless! Yet, it is still firm enough so that I am certain there will be no slipping/unintentional misfires.

My penetration depth is just slightly less than I was getting before... BUT: My bands are now in a VERY slack condition with the bolt all the way down. I will make some new bands that have a little tightness when the bolt is down which will provide more pull when the handle is pulled and locked in the ready position and, the force of the bands will continue all the way down. (Right now I have about 2/4" "slack" in my original bands that do not provide any more force during the last bit of travel of the bolt...

I am CERTAIN, that with the shorter bands, I will be able to get the penetration depth of the bolt, back to where it was originally (maybe just a hair more.

Oh... And as for recoil? NONE! With the ease of the trigger pull, I am able to hold my device with three fingers requiring only my first finger to pull the trigger. This creates a sure grip of the device. Not having to apply the force that I used to use to pull the trigger, there is no extra muscle force needed to fire and all my force can be used to position the handle right where I want it. I drew circles in my 2/4 test bed outlining the diameter of the handle. EVERY strike was a bulls-eye! (not so much as 1/16" off center... Before, my device was traveling 1/4" to 1/2" because of the shakiness of my hand trying to pull the hard-to-pull handle and the recoil created by my heavier bolt.

Sal: I cannot thank you enough!

I woke up early to assemble my gun (I used JB Weld to attach my handle tube and wanted to make sure it was cured)... Also, I put a slight twist in my handle tips so that it would stay put without the need for the springs and washers (less weight! :D )... Also, because of the tighter fit of the handle in the tube, it doesn't slip or move when firing... I'm sure my looser handle on my original shifted the center of gravity when firing and probably added to the inability to hit accurately, contributing to the jump and moving of the bolt strike from where I was aiming.

I'll try to make some new shorter bands later today and report back here with depth changes and how the bands effect the gun...

I COULD NOT BE HAPPIER! (Unless I had your original gun! :lol: :lol: )... Being a creative type like you, there's also a great sense of pride and joy creating a tool that works.... I was REALLY scared that I had put so much work into mine and that it would not be reliable enough to use...

Again... Sal: THANK YOU! YOU ARE THE BEST!

PS: If you decide to design a new device and need any plastic work, please do not hesitate to contact me. I can create master plugs or use yours and create platinum silicone molds and turn you on to pourable plastics and tips on how to pressure cast without pinholes or bubbles so that you can create your own production pieces....

Wow! (I'd say that I can't wait to go dispatch a rabbit, but this is still my first time... Our intent is to raise meat for our family so the commitment is there... It's just like the Quail... The first one was really hard Before that, I had never killed a warm blooded animal, the thought, the moment, the blood, the shaking.... But after that, when the roosters start crowing (we live in a residential part of our city), I have no problem sending them off to "freezer camp" and calling up Tresa at work and letting her know that "dinner is in the oven"! LOL!

Thank you Sal!

Richard

Before.jpg
Before Modifications

After.jpg
After Modifications

PS: The Caliper is included in the photo and set to 1" for reference
 
Looks great Richard! I would definitely like to pick your brain in the future. If you need anything else, just email me. I'll make you a set of tubes if you want.

Regards,
Sal Pizzurro
Pizzcorp.com
 

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