Rabbit in labor for over 5 hours

[MamaSheepdog]

Was this her first litter? I know from reading here that many of the dwarf breeds don't have a viable litter until the second or third try.

Maybe if you post pics of her posed with good shots of her hindquarters the dwarf breeders will have some helpful input as to whether to try again or pet her out.

 

[skysthelimit]

That is actually quite normal. The only holland I have left, had 4 the first time, over three days, then she had six and i pulled each one out, then 3 litters of 5 healthy kits.

 

[siddsaysgimmie]

Really? I was strict with how does kindled when I first started on Hollands... culled anything that messed up. Now I don't have problems. Even when I first started with HL I didn't have a doe with so much trouble kindling, so I was thinking it best to pet her out. I guess I might just not be used to it?

It was her first litter and she's over a year old. I was expecting that things wouldn't go 100% smooth but this freaked me out to be honest. Here are the pictures I have of her. What do you guys think? I bred her with a HL but he's over 6 months old and 2.5 pounds.. heh.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

What a beautiful photograph! :clap2:

I really need to set up a nice backdrop for posed photos.

 

[siddsaysgimmie]

Everyone please excuse my typos... Oh my, I have been bad with typing the last few days. Sigh.

Thanks! Easy as 1, 2, 3. The pussy willows were at the Dollarama, so I bought a bunch of those along with large pebbles and a tall vase - also from the Dollarama. I have a short stand sitting around so I put a carpet on top of that and the vase with willows in the background. This was my first attempt so it didn't turn out so well, I have since bought more willows and spread them out more.

 

[Dood]

I was strict with how does kindled when I first started on Hollands... culled anything that messed up. Now I don't have problems.

THANK YOU!!!!

I wish MORE breeders were this disciplined!!

The ONLY reason having stuck/stillborn kits in the first few litters is normal is because of 'breeders' who dont cull or pet out these problem does but keep passing on the defective genes!

IT DOESNT HAVE TO BE THE NORM if people would STOP breeding these things!

 

[skysthelimit]

There are some cases, that if you did, you wouldn't have any. There has to be a line drawn somewhere.

Generally my breeding practices are so strict, that I had only 1 holland left out of five adult does and three litters, and replaced half of my herd of Rex. Following the three strikes protocol, she had 5 kits on the third try, so I wouldn't call that a bad move.

I've never had a first time Rex have kits on the wire either. Even the first time holland with the stuck kits made a nest and had them in the nest. With the many stories of kits on the wire and the screw ups of first time does, should we cull them all without giving them a second try? Most people would say it's normal for first time does to not know what they are doing, but that has not been my experience.

 

[Dood]

I am not talking about a clueless first timer or even a doe who got 1 or 2 huge kits stuck, I am talking about a doe with a belly full of 5 normal, or small kits, and still having problems giving birth.

I didn't even mention the other issues, I was just talking about stuck kits but since you brought it up then NO i don't think a doe who is so twitchy she repeatedly has kits on the wire or who tramples them or who has a litter of 4 but cannot produce enough milk to feed them so you have to always have to make sure there is another doe kindling so she can foster these kits and they will survive long enough to pass on their crappy genetics.

There are some cases, that if you did, you wouldn't have any

BINGO!

 

[skysthelimit]

I am not talking about a clueless first timer or even a doe who got 1 or 2 huge kits stuck, I am talking about a doe with a belly full of 5 normal, or small kits, and still having problems giving birth.

Well that is not the case here, so no need for a soapbox about dwarf breeds. It is what it is sometimes. The thing at question here is the level of tolerance and the amount of repeats. Since it's already a known fact that dwarf breeds can have problems, and do not necessarily breed true, then I would not get rid of a first time doe, at a year old, because she had a bad episode. She already has three things against her--dwarf breed, first time, over six months old. I'd consider it miraculous if she got it right the first time.

I follow the three strikes with everything, it seems reasonable.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I think the doe should get a "pass" due to her age alone. While it is not true that rabbits hips will fuse at over a year old, there is a tightening of the ligaments. Pair that with a small litter, and it is a recipe for a poor outcome.

I would breed her back and keep a brood doe out of her in addition to a show prospect if showing is your goal. Breed the "brood doe" at a young age- as soon as she is showing that she is ready- and see how her instincts are at a young age.

 

[siddsaysgimmie]

Sorry for starting a touchy subject. Maybe I'm just lucky with my Hollands.

The reason that she is a bit older for her first time is that she was in a pet home, which I bought her from. I'll breed her one more time, if it goes well I'll keep either a buck or a brood-typed doe from her then pet her out. My goal is breeding the himi color into my Hollands, so showing isn't an issue. hehe.

 

[Dood]

Maybe I'm just lucky with my Hollands.

No, you made your own luck by not accepting sub par performance in your rabbits.

In the 80's when I was doing 4-H with Netherlands, I did not have many problems with dwarf does, even tiny ones, having stuck kits and if I did I did not breed her again and petted out her offspring.

I find it quite sad to see ND going the way of the bulldog where the only way The breed will survive is to have c-sections.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Sorry for starting a touchy subject.

Please don't apologize for that. As long as everyone remains civil and conveys their thoughts politely and with tact, the sharing of controversial subjects is welcome at RT.

Indeed, it is a big part of what makes RT such a wonderful forum, and one I am proud to be affiliated with.

Culling (whether by rehoming or dispatching) is a very personal decision and is based on many variables. It is far easier to have a strict culling protocol if you have a large herd to work with. Those just starting out with limited stock or cash for replacements must work with what they have.

The axiom to "Cull for the best" applies whether you have three rabbits or three hundred. The goal for all of us should be to improve on what we have, even if with baby steps.

 

[siddsaysgimmie]

I do have a very small herd, after I bought a brood doe who got everything right the first time and kept a brood doe out of her, all went fine with my first timers. Of course, since I have been culling for ease of birthing and mothering skills I am not super happy about type, but it all comes with time. I think it's up to the breeder to determine what is most important to them but I do wish that the littler bunnies wouldn't have such a hard time.

Anyway, she looked good "down there" (like I said before, she barely bled at all, which I found weird) and she has been doing perfectly so I bred her this morning. Like always, she was eager so I'm hoping for some healthy babies and an easier birth for Lizzy. I'll post here when/if she has little ones.<br /><br />__________ Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:14 am __________<br /><br />Well, it's day 31 for Liz. Fingers crossed! She pulled a bit of fur and is huge.

 

[AmysMacdog]

opcorn:

 

[Marinea]

*fingers crossed for healthy popples*

 

[siddsaysgimmie]

Well, she had 2 so far - 1 healthy (yippee!) and 1 peanut. However, she's has been pushing for about an hour or so again. Dang.

__________ Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:07 pm __________

Anyway...

She finally had another, it was really large and to my surprise it seemed like a max factor... She chewed around one of the eyes so the whole thing was showing, did it ever shock me. The other was open but not chewed. First time seeing something like that in person.

 

[faiththequeen]

Sorry you're having to deal with this again. How's the singleton this morning?

 

[siddsaysgimmie]

I took another look at the one born yesterday and thankfully, she did chew the other eye, just not as much. I'm guessing she must have been trying to get nutrients... she hadn't been eating anything at all except a bit of hay and Cheerios and was barely drinking for a few days. She's skinny but doing better now, she passed another one this morning and seems done. I will pet her out after she gets back condition and seems 100%.

The little guy is doing well. I had a reliable doe bred along with her and she delivered a few hours later. She took him in along with her other 4 and he seems chubby. Fingers crossed! Anyone know if a male would pass on bad birthing tendencies?

 

[Dood]

Anyone know if a male would pass on bad birthing tendencies?

They can pass it to their daughters and has been documented in cows, swine, and dogs. I can only assume it would be true in rabbits as well.