Rabbit has a lump under her skin?

[Zass]

Just noticed a lump under the skin on one of my velveteen kits, born April 12, so, a little over 3 months old.

It's just above her hips not even 1/2 inch away, between the loin and thigh muscles. It's not attached to the skin or the muscle. I can push it around a little. She doesn't mind me touching it, and just fell asleep on my lap while I was feeling it. About the size of a small pea.

I have seen puss pockets underneath skin from infected bites (not on my rabbits, but do I butcher for others sometimes). I don't believe she was ever bitten. An abscess from that should have been attached to the skin.

Her sister was caged along with her, but I never noticed any fighting, pulled hair, or dominance behaviors of any kind. They are somewhat more docile than normal rabbits. You'd have to see it for yourself, I doubt I can really describe it.

Her sister was culled for sneezing not long ago. The kit in question never sneezed, so she's just been under watch.

The rabbit herself acts as healthy as she's ever been. She's always been weak though and wouldn't have survived to reach this age without a lot of special care and supplementary feeding.

Any ideas?

-- Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:18 pm --

Systemic pasteurella abscesses come to mind first. I was hoping the original sneezer wasn't infected with pasteurella, and just culled her because I didn't want to risk the rest of my herd. I'd rather not open this one up and look inside, since she's SO SWEET, and took a nap on my lap today. She always greets me with joy, and gives kisses and cuddles.
I'd planned on finding a pet home for her, and I believe she would be a dream rabbit as a housepet.

Would antibiotics be more effective on systemic pasteurella? I'm aware that part of the reason it isn't effective on the respiratory form of the the disease has to do with a lack of blood flow in their super delicate nasal system.

I'd be interested in taking her to a vet just for the sake of seeing how a one would handle the situation. Unfortunately, a veterinary visit isn't an option

 

[MaggieJ]

Zass, take a close look at the skin at the site of the lump. If there is any sign of a hole, it could be a bot fly (warble). Not a pleasant thing if it is, but fairly easy to deal with.

 

[Zass]

I almost wish it was something like that.

I just double checked, not a hole, not a nip, not a pinprick, not even a red mark. I can blow into her super short fur and see right to the skin. It's undamaged in any way and of a healthy color. There's also no swelling or feeling of swollen or hardened skin. Whatever it is, it's 100% subcutaneous.

Bot flies aren't very common here, my only first hand experience was with finding an exit hole on a kitten someone had abandoned beside a road. The warble had already left at that point, leaving a gaping hole. (we caught the kitten and a sibling, nursed them back to health and found them homes. Unfortunately we discovered that the mother and another kitten had already been killed on the road, people are AWFUL)

I'm going to go ahead and guess entrance holes are much smaller than exit holes?

-- Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:28 pm --

Bot flies aren't very common here,

I take that back, my state appears to be is right in rabbit bot fly range. http://bugguide.net/node/view/53512/data
Here's what one looks like: http://bugguide.net/node/view/588945/bgpage

I guess I can call myself lucky for not having had to deal with one yet. Adding screen to enclose the rabbitry suddenly seems like a nice plan.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I'm not sure if antibiotics would be very effective on a pasteurella abscess because they are usually very well encapsulated. :?

If you get a large gauge needle you could aspirate the lump to see if it is filled with pus. I did that when my original buck Black Floyd developed a large abscess- it was very hard to draw out. I ended up culling him in case it was the dreaded "P".

Since your lump is so small, maybe you can express the pus out of the hole from the needle aspirate or lance it to create a larger hole. I would then irrigate it with hydrogen peroxide to loosen any remaining matter.

Once it is cleaned out you could fill it with Nu-Stock. You want the wound to remain open so any pus can drain out and so it heals from the inside out. I would also continue irrigating it daily, but would use either a weak betadine solution or even salt water. Make sure to use non-iodized salt. The ratio for use in Neti pots is 1/4 teaspoon salt to 8 ounces water, which should be about right I would think.

 

[Zass]

Hmm. I'd been thinking. Since the lump isn't attached to the skin or muscle tissue, and it's in an easy to access location, do you believe it may be possible (with a veterinary scalpel) to cut a tiny slit, remove the entire lump intact and hopefully still encapsulated, and than just keep the wound clean and irrigated and allow her to heal?

Is it even legal to attempt something like that?

I really hate to do anything that might cause pain to the bunny. I am practiced at some very delicate procedures, and am generally considered among the very best when it come to skinning, deboning, and preparing rabbit pelts for taxidermy. Err...what I'm trying to say is that I know how to use a scalpel, and quite a bit about how a rabbit is put together.

I don't want to end her life over what may be a benign tumor. I couldn't allow anyone to take her knowing there may be a possibility that she will die slowly of systemic pasteurella.

My intuition is telling me that I would find pus in that lump. And if I do, I will fear there would be more lumps inside where I couldn't see.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

do you believe it may be possible (with a veterinary scalpel) to cut a tiny slit, remove the entire lump intact and hopefully still encapsulated, and than just keep the wound clean and allow her to heal?

Yes. Make sure to shave the area first. I would apply ice to constrict the blood vessels and deaden the nerves a bit... and maybe get some lidocaine spray or other topical numbing agent as well. Honestly, though, if you are quick with your incision she probably wont react much.

When I necropsied Floyd, I completely excised the abscess from the surrounding muscle tissue. It was actually surprisingly easy to do.

Need I say... PICTURES! :camera:

 

[Zass]

I have no shortage of dried willow bark for pain. http://www.udel.edu/chem/C465/senior/fa ... wbark.html

According to this it isn't a blood thinner, so it would be safe to give her before, along with a topical anesthetic.

I can flush the wound with vetericyn, since I happen to have a bottle on hand.

Now the hard part. Talking my husband into being my assistant.

 

[Miss M]

Is it even legal to attempt something like that?

I don't see why not... though I have to admit, I haven't looked into it. Farmers have been performing minor surgeries on their animals for... a very long time. We've drained and treated two abscesses ourselves. Which reminds me, I need to get some more scalpel blades.

Here are some pics of one of our abscess-draining sessions: burying-nibbles-a-little-furry-friend-graphic-t13922.html

Do please take pictures! Every set of pictures like that could help someone else do a similar procedure.

 

[Dood]

You can treat your own animals, but no one else's.

I would pluck the fur all around the lump and look for a scar that started the abscess - if you don't find one then systemic pasturella may be the cause

 

[Zass]

I've handled this kit every day since birth. I've had to, as she seems determined to die on me. Starting at 10 days old, and again at 4 weeks.
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I don't expect to find any scar, but I will look when I shave her.

In truth, I wouldn't be at all surprised to find a systemic infection due to a weak immune system.
I'm amazed that she's survived up to this point.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Is it even legal to attempt something like that?

You can treat your own animals, but no one else's.

It was my understanding that you could treat your own and other people's animals as long as you don't charge for the service, which would fall under the category of practicing medicine without a license. A friend of mine discussed this with our local large animal vet (granted, he isn't a lawyer) when she had a run of people needing her medical help with their animals.

look for a scar that started the abscess - if you don't find one then systemic pasturella may be the cause

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find a systemic infection due to a weak immune system.

Yeah... and even with a scar, it could still be "P" because the systemic form can enter via wounds.

I've handled this kit every day since birth.

It is hard to not at least try to save them when you already have such an emotional investment... not the wise and logical course, but sometimes our hearts override that. Just keep her quarantined and watch for other signs. She looks very healthy now.

I will fear there would be more lumps inside where I couldn't see.

That is a possibility.

She lost her curl!

 

[Zass]

She did indeed lose her curl. When I purchased that rew velveteen buck, I had a talk about velveteens and astrex genes with the current COD holder for the breed. (Lorie Stillo, her rabbitry on facebook https://www.facebook.com/journeyhomerabbitry)

We didn't really see eye to eye. I felt that the astrex genes should probably be removed from the breed, and she said they posed no harm whatsoever because they lacked certain genes needed to fix the curls in the coat. On the astrex group, it was often discussed that astrex coated rabbits were more likely to lose their foot fur and develop sore hocks, along with other genetic issues. And that it can take up to two years for astrex coated rabbits to grow their curls back.

Anyway, I'll personally be working away from curl carriers myself, because I feel that this isn't the best breed to chose to develop curl in.

I'd like to mention that my senior doe, Mucky, still has a very curly bottom from when it was washed and blow dried 3 months ago

OH, and since I have everyone's attention, is Faelee a chocolate tort, or a super light black tort? I'm still unconvinced.

her eye color isn't as soft as I expect to see on a chocolate, and it lacks a red sheen. But her coats so clean that she looks more like a fawn or orange than a tort. :?

She may look healthy, but she's dainty and thin, she has trouble digesting pellets, and carries no fat on her body. She's a full pound and a half lighter than any sibling. I could never breed her, and I haven't even tried to sell her as a pet because I fear she will be too difficult to keep alive and too easy to fall in love with. I would feel I was setting someone up for heartbreak. I kinda deserve it anyway, since I didn't let her fade in the nestbox like she was probably supposed to.

Culling her would very likely be the most humane option. But I'm not ready to do that yet. Not when she seems happy.

(oh yeah, those velveteens like being picked up, they want to be in my hands. Culling one of these is no easy feat, even for an experienced meat raiser.)

 

[Miss M]

Oh my goodness... look at that face!

I think that if she's going to be kept by anybody, it should be you. That way, she's with someone who thoroughly understands her issues and is ready to put her down if she needs to be.

 

[Zass]

Oh my goodness... look at that face!

I think that if she's going to be kept by anybody, it should be you. That way, she's with someone who thoroughly understands her issues and is ready to put her down if she needs to be.

Velveteens are a very dangerous breed. They can steal your heart.

 

[Miss M]

Oh my goodness... look at that face!

I think that if she's going to be kept by anybody, it should be you. That way, she's with someone who thoroughly understands her issues and is ready to put her down if she needs to be.

Velveteens are a very dangerous breed. They can steal your heart.

It's a good thing you live so far away!