Rabbit fading fast - GI Stasis???

[bantambunnies]

Went out this morning to see my doe - the one who stops eating her cecotropes if she's fed too much - and she was lying in a corner, limp. No appetite. I've brought her in and I don't know what to do next.

I think I know the cause:
I just weaned her litter and I kept feeding her a large portion of pellets for a day or two afterward. That's probably what triggered it. I also happened to replace her water crock with a bottle the other day. All three of those things together - but mainly the pellets - are probably it.

So what first? She's limp and not interested in anything. I think I can feel a lump of food in her belly. I don't hear any noises from her stomach. Should I start with syringing canned pumpkin? I'm afraid I'll lose her before I can do anything.

Forgot to mention that when I first found her, I flipped her over and found a fresh, normal-looking dropping clinging to her anus. She has been ignoring her cecotropes lately again, but her other droppings have seemed fine.

-- Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:31 am --

Tried feeding a little pumpkin and she's so limp that she won't even swallow. I'm not feeling a lot of hope. The only thing I can think to do now is massage. I've been looking at this article http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html ... <br /><br /> -- Sat Sep 06, 2014 11:28 am -- <br /><br /> She died.

She died much the same way her kit did several weeks ago. She was lying in my lap, very limp. Then she moved and I thought - wow, good, she's sitting up. Then she started to twist around in a really familiar way... just like that fader kit. I put her down on the carpet and she started kicking and thrashing around... convulsing. She didn't make any noise. Then, after twitching for a while, she died.

So disappointed. This was such a sweet doe and a good mom. I just weaned the second litter she'd had while I had her. And I'll be selling those two bunnies this weekend.
I love raising rabbits, but it's tough when you have problem after problem. Earlier this year, she had a big problem with her cecotropes. Then the buck with E.C. The doe with wet dewlap. A rabbit with infected injuries. The fader kit. And now this... all in the space of no more than six months.
I guess it's not so bad. But if all this is happening to my few rabbits, what could happen if I had a large herd?
Thankfully I'm getting used to this. I'm okay. Just sad.

 

[Zass]

I'm sorry you lost a doe!

If she was passing normal droppings right up to the moment she passed away, it suggests something different than gi stasis to me.

Most of the cases I've seen in my herd have involved at least a few days of slowdown and increasingly smaller droppings. The exception was a kit who went right into it after a round of diahrea.

 

[Bandits Bunny Farm]

I'm so sorry, BB I kniw what that feels like.

More kits in my rabbitry have died than lived so far, and well, I'm glad only one of my adults died, but she was my favorite rabbit.

The best mama, gorgeous rabbit, after she died I swore I wasn't doing Mini Lops anymore I would just sell my buck and get Hollands... but my mom likes the Minis so I'm just going to get a couple more Mini Lop does :lol:

it's really hard, but, like you said, I'm getting used to it. I don't really cry anymore when a rabbit dies, unless its an adult, like Olivia.

I love my rabbits, as you do yours, and Miss M hers, and MamaSheepdog hers thought I'd mention her to stay on her good side. I don't want the :chair:lol, as well as everybody else on RT. But I- and I bet that everyone will agree- I HATE when my sweet babies die on me

 

[Miss M]

I am so sorry, BantamBunnies!

It sounds like when you found her, she was already too far gone to save. Rabbits can decline so quickly. I agree with Zass... I had a doe die of stasis, and her poops became progressively smaller and irregularly shaped. I don't know what happened with your bun.

Sometimes, it seems like a member will be working hard to do everything right, and they just have problem after problem for a little while. Eventually, either everything smooths out, or the member starts over with new stock. I hope everything smooths over for you soon!

 

[bantambunnies]

I'm sorry you lost a doe!

If she was passing normal droppings right up to the moment she passed away, it suggests something different than gi stasis to me.

Most of the cases I've seen in my herd have involved at least a few days of slowdown and increasingly smaller droppings. The exception was a kit who went right into it after a round of diahrea.

Thanks
Okay... so if it wasn't GI stasis... should I be worried? Like I said, I have two people picking up her bunnies this weekend and I don't want to give them diseased rabbits.
It's quite possible I just didn't notice any change in her droppings, since her hutch doesn't have any pans - everything falls onto the ground - and I'm used to seeing the tiny, dried cecotropes. I think she had had an increase of them, since I had been giving her more feed than usual. So she may have been having smaller droppings and I didn't notice, although that last one I saw when I picked her up the first time looked normal to me.

I'm so sorry, BB I kniw what that feels like.

More kits in my rabbitry have died than lived so far, and well, I'm glad only one of my adults died, but she was my favorite rabbit.

The best mama, gorgeous rabbit, after she died I swore I wasn't doing Mini Lops anymore I would just sell my buck and get Hollands... but my mom likes the Minis so I'm just going to get a couple more Mini Lop does :lol:

it's really hard, but, like you said, I'm getting used to it. I don't really cry anymore when a rabbit dies, unless its an adult, like Olivia.

I love my rabbits, as you do yours, and Miss M hers, and MamaSheepdog hers thought I'd mention her to stay on her good side. I don't want the :chair:lol, as well as everybody else on RT.

:lol:

But I- and I bet that everyone will agree- I HATE when my sweet babies die on me

Thanks. I'm sorry about your rabbits too...

I am so sorry, BantamBunnies!

It sounds like when you found her, she was already too far gone to save. Rabbits can decline so quickly. I agree with Zass... I had a doe die of stasis, and her poops became progressively smaller and irregularly shaped. I don't know what happened with your bun.

Sometimes, it seems like a member will be working hard to do everything right, and they just have problem after problem for a little while. Eventually, either everything smooths out, or the member starts over with new stock. I hope everything smooths over for you soon!

Thank you.
I think I could tell she was pretty far gone when I found her... she was almost totally limp. And she was fine yesterday! I didn't get to check her last night, but my sister said she was sitting up, at least...

I just hope whatever happened to her won't happen to my other buns. I'm inclined to think that she was just special... I've never had a rabbit with such a sensitive system. Some are just like that, I guess... there's an article on the BinkyBunny website about a doe with a super sensitive digestive system. This doe wasn't quite that bad, but I think she did react to too much feed.

I sure hope things will smooth out! I think I will be mostly starting with new rabbits soon. I've sold several of my rabbits recently and I have plans to sell more, and now some have died. I'm looking for better quality stock and I guess with so few right now, this is my chance to fill up those empty hutches.
But everything is a learning experience, right? Now I know how much pellets to give sensitive buns, how to prevent wet dewlap, and what to do about E.c. I know what a fader kit is like, I know how to nurse kits with diarrhea, and I know better what death is like. Hopefully I won't need to know any of that later, but we know how things go... in any case, I have more experience and more knowledge under my belt, although my rabbits and I had to go through some tough times.

 

[Marinea]

So sorry you lost your doe.

I am sure it did not cause the problem, but I would be wary of switching from water crock to bottle or vice versa if the bun was only used to one. If you feel you need to switch, I would add a touch of strawberry jam or something to the new water thingy to make sure they find and get used to it. I use crocks, but add water bottles during the summer. I leave the crocks in and put the water bottles right by the crocks to be sure.

Again, sorry for your loss.

 

[bantambunnies]

So sorry you lost your doe.

I am sure it did not cause the problem, but I would be wary of switching from water crock to bottle or vice versa if the bun was only used to one. If you feel you need to switch, I would add a touch of strawberry jam or something to the new water thingy to make sure they find and get used to it. I use crocks, but add water bottles during the summer. I leave the crocks in and put the water bottles right by the crocks to be sure.

Again, sorry for your loss.

Thanks.
Most of my rabbits are trained to use both... I mainly use bottles but will sometimes add or replace with a crock (which they don't really have to figure out). I'm careful with juniors that aren't used to bottles, but I don't usually worry about my seniors. Anywho, I'm pretty sure this doe was using it.

I would really like to know whether to be worried about this. One from this doe's litter has already gone to a new home and the other was supposed to go this week, but the buyer is concerned about what happened to his mom and wants to hold off on picking him up for a bit. I'm fine with that, but I am a little concerned about the one who already left... and I'd like to assure the current buyer that it was GI Stasis and isn't contagious. <br /><br /> -- Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:58 pm -- <br /><br /> Wanted to add that while the doe was still alive, I was trying to massage her in hopes of relieving gas pain... although it was more like palpating. Anyway, what I felt was an empty lower abdomen, and a large lump of food in the upper abdomen. Definitely like something was stuck.



Found this about myxo... I'm sure that's not what it is, but the symptoms are frighteningly close. I don't live anywhere near any of the areas it's supposed to be in. But except for the temperature part (her ears actually felt unusually cool) and the eyelids (I don't remember any unusual redness) it's very similar. Gives me chillls.

In the rapidly killing form, all you see is a dead rabbit. But here are some clues you might see if you're watching:

Slight redness of the eyelids
Rabbit is limp or lethargic
Rabbit has no appetite, and eats very little
Rabbit's temperature is elevated to as much as 106 degrees F (normal being 101 - 102 F)

The next thing you know, the rabbit is dead.

 

[Miss M]

Empty lower abdomen and lump in upper abdomen... sounds like wool block.

Our first doe died of wool block. She had a lot of bunny berries dangling from the floor of her cage. It will kill quickly, too. The rabbit will be lethargic, and will stop eating and drinking, or nearly so. Often, you will see more bunny berries than usual dangling from the wire. If you can't break up the blockage with fresh pineapple or papaya (or some of the other ideas for dealing with it), the rabbit can die in just a day or two.

Wool block is caused by the rabbit ingesting more fur while grooming than the GI tract is able to pass. The fur forms a lump in the stomach, and blocks food from passing through to the intestines. Wool block is one of the reasons people who feed pellets (which are a complete diet all by themselves) will still feed hay. Hay helps keep fur moving through the system.

 

[bantambunnies]

Empty lower abdomen and lump in upper abdomen... sounds like wool block.

Our first doe died of wool block. She had a lot of bunny berries dangling from the floor of her cage. It will kill quickly, too. The rabbit will be lethargic, and will stop eating and drinking, or nearly so. Often, you will see more bunny berries than usual dangling from the wire. If you can't break up the blockage with fresh pineapple or papaya (or some of the other ideas for dealing with it), the rabbit can die in just a day or two.

Wool block is caused by the rabbit ingesting more fur while grooming than the GI tract is able to pass. The fur forms a lump in the stomach, and blocks food from passing through to the intestines. Wool block is one of the reasons people who feed pellets (which are a complete diet all by themselves) will still feed hay. Hay helps keep fur moving through the system.

Thank you!
I wish I had checked her the night before. I thought about going out there, but all the animals were locked up already and I knew they were cared for, so I figured they would be okay. If I'd gone out then, I might have been able to save her.

I do feed lots of hay to my rabbits, and I tried to make sure that she especially ate a lot, since I knew she had tummy issues.
I didn't notice anything strange with her droppings because she ALWAYS had lots of droppings hanging from the cage - it would be normal for her. I guess since they're starting to molt now she may have been having more hair passing through her system... or NOT passing through her system.

I posted in the feeding section about papaya enzyme tablets... are they good to feed when they have 1g of sugar per 2 tablets and the first two ingredients are dextrose and sugar? (These are people supplements)

 

[squidpop]

There's a theory that wool block is caused by a dehydrated gut.
I've got jersey woolies and based on this theory when they begin to show signs of wool block, refusing food, pressing tummy to the floor or hunching, small poos or no poo-- I've syringe feed 2-3 tablespoons of electrolytes, then waited an hour and given some semethicone, then wait another three hours and syringe fed more electrolytes, and each rabbit has been better by morning. Maybe I've just been lucky, but its happened 4 times to different rabbits, and I syringe fed (low sugar) electrolytes and they all came right.

Also, I read somewhere that someone did some necropsies on a rabbits with wool block and found that the gut was dehydrated and the blockages were made up of a very dry compacted masses of fur and food, so this led them to the theory that dehydration was the cause and fluids would help break up the mass and pass it through.

 

[bantambunnies]

Thanks, squidpop.

I did pick up some baby gas drops at the store so hopefully I'll be ready if anything like this happens again.
I'd like to do a necropsy but I'm not brave enough... or don't have a strong enough stomach.
Is it even possible to do a necropsy on a rabbit gone stiff and then frozen? (I'm sick of hacking away at this rock-hard red clay to bury the rabbit, only to let an animal dig it up the next day. :angry: And the dump wasn't open. So.)

 

[Miss M]

That's very interesting, Squidpop, I hadn't heard the dehydration theory before. Makes sense... though then you wonder what would have caused the rabbit to become dehydrated. Maybe it's a chicken/egg thing, or maybe a vicious cycle... beginning with a little bit of blockage, which causes the rabbit to drink less, which causes the system to slow down, which causes more blockage... :shrug:

As for the papaya tablets, many have used them in spite of the sugar content, with no problems. In a rescue situation, where the rabbit has a blockage, it doesn't really matter as much -- you're facing losing the rabbit, so papaya tablets, papaya fruit, fresh pineapple, all on the table. Whatever you can get the rabbit to take. Compared to papaya fruit and pineapple, the tablets probably have way less sugar.

I used to supplement the rabbits with one tablet a day. You could probably break the tablets to start them really slowly, so the system has a chance to get used to it.

 

[bantambunnies]

As for the papaya tablets, many have used them in spite of the sugar content, with no problems. In a rescue situation, where the rabbit has a blockage, it doesn't really matter as much -- you're facing losing the rabbit, so papaya tablets, papaya fruit, fresh pineapple, all on the table. Whatever you can get the rabbit to take. Compared to papaya fruit and pineapple, the tablets probably have way less sugar.

I used to supplement the rabbits with one tablet a day. You could probably break the tablets to start them really slowly, so the system has a chance to get used to it.

Thanks!
I tried the tablets on my buns and they love them. I figured I'd go with them because I don't really have the money to be buying pineapple and papaya all the time... although maybe I could buy a can of pineapple chunks for an emergency? I guess that would work too?
Right now I'm giving the rabbits in heavy molt about 1/day. I think I'm going to maybe give one more since I've been seeing thickly-strung-together droppings. One of my bucks wasn't interested in eating the other morning so I offered him several kinds of foods and left him for an hour or so. He'd eaten all the greens when I came back and was eating fine after that.
The rabbits in a light molt get 1/2 tablet for now. Free-Ranging Bunny is lightly molting but I figure he gets a ton of greens in his diet anyway, so probably isn't in danger of dehydrating (if that theory is correct). He loves the tablets, though. I tasted them and I can tell why. Well... they're not that good, but they're better than other chewable vitamins I've had.

So can I assure my buyer that it was nothing contagious?

 

[Miss M]

maybe I could buy a can of pineapple chunks for an emergency? I guess that would work too?

The canning process will destroy a large percentage of the enzymes which break up the fur. It might do in a pinch, but I'm not sure how well. Probably better might be to up the dose of the papaya tablets... after all, they are made of the enzymes the rabbit needs.

Increase the enzymes, remove pellets, free-feed hay and oatmeal. Rabbit-safe weeds that have been run under the faucet to get them wet, to make sure the rabbit is getting some fluids.

So can I assure my buyer that it was nothing contagious?

Without a necropsy, I can't say positively... however, this sounds more like wool block to me than anything else.

You can sit down with a molting bunny and a sandwich bag, and pluck the rabbit like it's an angora. Keep the fur for future insufficiently-furred nests. We've done that with a couple of rabbits that were seriously blowing coat lately, and now have plenty of fur we can use instead of dryer lint. And it's that much less fur the rabbit is ingesting.

 

[jeannie]

I am so glad I found this thread. Otherwise, I might have lost a doe. I went out to check and saw no poops and that her water intake was little. I suspected wool block (because others had suggested it in the thread).

I syringed flax seed oil and then water with crushed papaya tablets into her. She had some yucky poops today, so *crossing fingers*. I plan to push more of the oil and water today. She did eat some of her greens today, but only a little bit of water on her own.

This has reminded me to "check" poop levels daily (like I used to).

I am sorry for your loss bantambunnies, but by posting you saved my rabbit. It's weird to say "sorry for your loss" and "Thank you" in the same sentence, but Thank you.

 

[rabbit@rtist]

I was so sorry to hear about your doe. Rabbits being prey are always so brave when they are really sick.

Here's a few items I always keep in my rabbit first aid kit to help with dehydration and gi stasis symptoms

HYDRATION
if waving water on organic flat leaf parsley or anything else they like in front of their nose doesn't work
1- 10cc plastic syringes (for small buns. Larger if you have big rabbits)
2- distilled water (hold the bunny and gently insert the syringe at the back corner of the mouth and empty.) It's slow, but will get water in them.
3- Childrens' Pedialyte dilute with distilled water. Pedialyte has electrolytes and is also sweet.
Helps rehydrate better than plain water.
Also sometimes you can tempt them out of a crock or dish different than the ones they regularly use.
4- Crane's teardrop humidifier -- soundless, it puts out a good directional cool steam flow.
The bun and I stand in front and we breath in very moist, cool air. Hydrates their sinus and helps them breathe.

GI STASIS
5- Metoclopramide (Reglan) it's a prescription intestinal motility drug (it's been a real life saver)
If they have acute symptoms
Use the same plastic syringes (amount prescribed by weight) and feed the same as the water/ insert at corner of mouth
I always have a bottle on hand. It goes off after a time and doesn't work as well.
So I have found it better to get 8 oz bottles and refill. Walgreens can fill the prescription.
Be careful with how much you give. Don't overdose.

If they are still pooping, but small and irregular
Try dunking stalks of organic flat leaf parsley in the Metoclopramide and alternate with distilled water, to kick start a bun to eat and drink.
or mix the Metoclopramide with a bit of mashed ripe banana (I use organic)
Sometimes, this is enough to get them going if you are alert and catch it fast.

6- mechanical vibrator for long stomach massages to help move things along-- although, I usually I just do it by hand,
bunny cradled in my arm with butt end higher in the air (helps with gas also)
7- children's anti-gas pills (if gas, not blockage is the issue) any drug and most grocery stores have them

Hope this helps!

 

[Miss M]

I hadn't heard of the use of Metoclopramide in rabbits. Here's more information, including dosage and interactions: http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medicati ... ramide.htm