Rabbit death?

[Easy Ears]

Hi!
I had a litter die a few months ago...could you give me your ideas why?

So the mom and dad are both Dutch mixes. There were 8 babies in the litter: 3 were stillborn.
The five grew up and I was feeding them pellets (Nutrena) and water, and hay (Alfalfa) from about 5 weeks up to 6 weeks.
(They were getting grass and water/pellets about the fourth week, and lots of dandelions! )
Then, about the 6th week, I found the runt foundering in the cage. He died shortly after. The rest of the rabbits looked fine. We left that morning, and came back about 2 hours later, and I checked on the babies, and there was another baby lying on it's side, gasping for air. It also died soon after. A few days passed, and the remaining three looked pretty good...but the second runt wasn't acting as energetic as usual. Then I read online that alfalfa causes bloating!!!!!!!!!!!!! But only in adults! ......hmm....anyway, I stopped feeding them alfalfa, and was giving them lots of dandelions (I read it counteracts the alfalfa...and that makes sense, because we fed alfalfa to them for about a week, with no ill effect, but we were feeding them lots of dandelions also!) a few days passed, and I checked them early in the morning, and one was dead in the nestbox, and another was gasping for breathe. I hurried him in the house, called the vet, and they said give pedyolite to them.
I gave the one that couldn't breathe light cpr, and it helped. Soon it was able to drink the pedyolite, but about 15 minutes later, it started not being able to breath again! Soon after, it died...
I went to check on the remaining baby, and found the other baby I though was dead, still to be alive! But she was to far gone to save. She died about a minute later... The remaining baby I fed pedyolite twice a day for about a week, and he did very well (He was the biggest of the litter) and about 7 weeks old, he got a new home! He's doing good, of what I know so far!
Do you guys know if it was the alfalfa? That's what I think it was...but I'm not sure...they all seemed to die of suffocation. But the first one (The runt) bloated. The rest did not. Any ideas on how this happened???????

 

[Zass]

I doubt it was caused by feeding alfalfa if they had always had it.
Many of us feed alfalfa or alfalfa based pellets from day one without problems. Most pellets are alfalfa based.

I can't say for sure that this is your cause of death, because there are a lot of things that could wipe out a litter at that age.
But for future reference, dietary changes CAN kill weanlings.

The best advice I can give is DO NOT introduce new foods, especially grass and greens, at that age.

Continue feeding them exactly the same as the first foods they nibble until they reach at least 8 weeks old.
From that point on introduce all new foods very slowly.
There are a few foods that are exceptions to this rule, like oats, but in general, just...don't do it.

 

[Dood]

A heavy parasite load can kill young kits and if you are finding worms in the feces of your rabbits you can bet the kits will have them worse

You also mention your buck had snuffles and weepy eye - baby kits often just die of suffocation without symptoms of snot or sneezing so this could have been the cause as well

 

[akane]

More hay and less greens is usually good in such situations. Greens have a higher risk of diarrhea and bloat. The fiber in hay will help prevent those issues. I feed clover/alfalfa to everything with no issues and most pellets are alfalfa based. There can be a lot of problems with hay though. Toxic weeds that wouldn't kill a 1000lb large livestock could wipe out a cage of rabbits. Molds on hay or pellets can leave toxins behind even after the mold is dead. Mold is usually noticeable on hay because it will grow a variety of musty smelling molds but pellet ingredients may have toxins without noticeable issues. Likely you would see problems in other rabbits eating the same thing though. If you have no other litters that are healthy then it may be young kits succumbing to an illness. Both severe respiratory illnesses like strains of pastuerella and coccidiosis can kill rapidly with few warning symptoms. They often strike kits in a certain age range where their immune system is low.

 

[Easy Ears]

Dood,

I think my buck and doe had snuffles....but don't rabbits usually die from that? My doe is COMEPLETELY recovered, and my buck is almost completely.

 

[bantambunnies]

Sorry about your bunnies.

However, I'd say four weeks is too young to be eating lots of grass and dandelions. Four weeks is the very youngest that I'd begin to *slowly* introduce SAFE greens like plantain weed and blackberry leaves. It could very well have been the grass and dandelions that did it. Grass is so difficult to digest that cows have four stomachs for it.

If you want to feed greens, start no earlier than four weeks - but preferably more like 6-8 weeks or later. (Some people will tell you that it's fine to have kits eating greens from the time they come out of the nestbox. This may be true, but I say - better safe than sorry. In kits that young, greens are probably likely to do more harm than good.) Try giving one kit a leaf or two of plantain weed (there are two kinds, both are safe. Google it for photos) or blackberry leaf. Watch that kit closely in the next few days for symptoms (diarrhea, bloating, etc.) If it seems okay, try another leaf or two. If that kit is okay with it, try giving a leaf to the rest of them. Again, monitor them all closely. Stick to these safe greens for a few weeks, at least. If they're okay, you can slowly add to the number of greens over time.

Again, others may tell you differently, but I like to play it safe with my kits. Losing those older bunnies is never any fun. Just because others have had young kits survive on lots of greens doesn't mean I want to risk mine to do the same.


Also, Easy Ears... snuffles is a very serious disease. Rabbits can never "COMPLETELY" recover from it. It will go dormant, so the rabbit will look healthy, but stress can bring it on again. Rabbits can get stressed by traveling, kindling, and other activities that aren't part of their usual daily routine.
Most breeders will recommend that you cull (in this instance, they do mean to KILL) any rabbit that comes down with snuffles. It's not something to mess with. In your case, I really don't know what you should do. I don't want you to have to kill your pets. Hopefully someone else can tell you what you should do.

 

[michaels4gardens]

when something like this happens I always suspect feed first,
-- did you introduce hay from another source or batch? [mold , milkweed, or bug spray] the alfalfa weevil spray is deadly to rabbits, -- were your "greens" sprayed with anything ?[or have "weed and feed" or water-in ant or bug, or grub poison added added to the area] did you open a "new" bag of feed just before this happened? if so are you sure it was fresh and not old and possibly moldy?
did you feed any cherry, or laurel leaves? [or anything else new]
sorry for your loss

 

[Easy Ears]

:cry_baby: Thanks guys!
Ok, so they alfalfa was very rich, and had just been shipped in, I bought it from a very reliable source feed store.
The rabbit pellets were pretty old...no mold, and my other rabbits have been eating it for 6 months without problems.
My yard has been pesticide and fertilizer free for over 7 years. I only buy organic greens. All they got for treats were:
Carrots, Cilantro, dandelions, and a very small amount of parsley. And all of these were in small amounts. :feed-ducks:
Oh and my rabbit feed is stored in my shed.

 

[michaels4gardens]

or-- intestinal coccidiosis, --but sounds more like a feed issue...
don't take this the wrong way--[ just problem solving]-- but-- were the cage floors pretty clean or did the rabbits have access to manure build up-- young rabbits who have access to manure on the floor of the cage can develope coccidiosis, fairly fast if it is in the rabbitry.

 

[Easy Ears]

Totally fine! But that is one thing I am extremely carful about...I NEVER let them get dirty, I ALWAYS make sure my rabbits, ESPECIALLY the babies, stay clean, and their cage stays clean.

 

[michaels4gardens]

Totally fine! But that is one thing I am extremely carful about...I NEVER let them get dirty, I ALWAYS make sure my rabbits, ESPECIALLY the babies, stay clean, and their cage stays clean.

I would guess-we are back to a feed issue... usually ,all enteritis type problems, as well as bloating, and respiratory distress [not accompanied by nasal discharge] is a consequence of gastric upset/ imbalance caused by "feed problems / change", or toxins from moldy,or contaminated feed. [the exception is heat stress, but does suffer long before kits, once they are out of the nest]
JMHO -- if any feed changes are to be made while raising a litter it is best to make the change gradually [with the doe], at least a week before the kits leave the nest.