Questions from a newby

[mystang89]

Ok, so I know that I don't know anything so here I am.

Yesterday I went out to do my chores and noticed one of the kits were outside of the nesting box, frozen to the wire. These kits are 2 weeks old today so they have hair and I was actually kind of surprised to find it. If anything I thought the mom would cuddle with it for no other reason that to help herself stay warm but whatever. The thing that worries me is that I don't know how it got out. I have a lip on the nesting box. Normally, in my limited experience they don't start jumping out until 3 weeks of age and then I tip the box on its side. I don't know if he latched on to the nipple and refused to let go when mom decided to hop out, being dragged with her. Thing is, I've never had a litter in cold weather before so not sure what to do. I needed to clean the nesting box out (question on that later) so I decided to tip it on its side now just in case he had decided to jump. At least if anyone else does they can now get back in. When I put the nesting box back out there I couldn't get the stupid things to stay in the warm nesting box....we just got 8" of snow and its slightly cold outside. I figured that at least today I could monitor them but I don't know what to do if they don't stay in but they do jump out.

Secondly, I've actually never had to completely clean out a nesting box before the kits had left. Soooooo, what do I put in there now? I had some lint I've been saving and mixed it with some straw. I don't have any extra fur though. What do you all put in when you clean them out. I'm afraid lint will increase the odds of nestbox eye plus I'm not going to have any lint for any other litters since my drier doesn't work lol.

Thank you,
From: Newby <br /><br /> __________ Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:09 am __________ <br /><br /> On a separately related note: My dog loves rabbits which actually have hair and are completely frozen. They are like a frozen chew toy to him. At least someone can get some joy out of this.

 

[ilovehome]

I think it would be fine to put the box on its side. They will get back into it when they need to be warm again. After the box is cleaned out the first time, I refill it with pine shavings. You can still put a little hay on it for them to nibble on.

 

[ottersatin]

If anything I thought the mom would cuddle with it
for no other reason that to help herself stay warm.
No, Rabbits do not do things like that.
The reason the feed the kits only once or sometimes twice
per day is: To keep the nesting site hidden from predators.
This is also why the Dams are not around nor do they bother
to retrieve their kits. In a real situation the nest would be
covered and very hard for anyone or anything to see/find.
In the colder months it is essential that we make frequent checks
in the very young.
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

 

[TwoAcreDream]

You can leave the nest box in it's regular position, but put some kind of step
in front of it, so the babies can climb back in. At 2 weeks they might be big enough to, but maybe not. I would think 3 weeks would be a lot better.

I check nest boxes daily. I make sure to put hay in the front part of it if needed. Usually the doe has them to the back part of the box. If it is cold, I check to see if the fur is piled up and loose and fluffy over the kits. If I feel any wetness, then it is time to clean the box. Put the kits somewhere safe and warm. Put mommy in a separate box. I use small plastic carry transfer totes. I try to save what fur I can that is not soiled. Empty the box. Put fresh hay back in. I don't use sawdust as that holds the liquid and in cold weather it makes things worse.
Make a hole like in back part of the nest box in the hay. Put the babies back in. Fluff fur over them. Put box back in cage. Put mom back in last. Other thing, I do is to count heads. If I took 6 out, I better be putting 6 back in.

I lost one baby like that last fall. Best guess I had was that it was still attached to mom's teat and out it came. Rabbits do not know how to put them back in the box.

 

[Miss M]

I think it got dragged out because it wouldn't let go of the nipple. Sorry you lost the baby like that.

It is possible, if the box is low enough at the front, and the nestbox material is high enough, it may have "poppled" out of the nest. I would expect actual purposeful jumping out at 3 weeks, rather than 2. That's why I think it got dragged out.

You can use feathers, shredded paper, teased cotton balls, and other such material in the nest around the babies.

 

[mystang89]

Thanks everyone. I tipped the box on its side yesterday but I really don't think I'm going to leave it like that. I just don't feel comfortable especially after seeing how they acted with it tipped over. If they were find and stayed where they belonged, and the mom stopped pulling all the stuff out of there I would keep it on its side but that's not what happened. With it being this cold I just don't feel comfortable with it. I didn't even think about using shredded paper even though that is what I've give each to do use when they start building their nest. Plus I have shavings, I think pine, which I could put in there. One day I'll use this thing God gave me for more than just a coat rack :/

 

[michaels4gardens]

I raise rabbits in a very cold climate now also-- I now make my nest boxes at least 8 inches deep , and some have a "lip" that sticks in a little toward the inside also- ---my covered boxes [for winter] have a 1/4" x 2"x2" alum angle at the entrance that sticks in about an inch, to help "scrape" the clinging bunnies off the mom as she jumps out of the box.- because I have found young rabbits frozen to the wire in the morning when I came out ,also-- even though I "checked" on them in the evening.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

You jinxed me, Mystang... I lost three kits from my first Satin litter the same way. Thankfully I had fostered two to another doe, so all are not lost. One was in the water bowl, one had made it back to the nest but froze anyway, and the other was sitting behind the nest frozen solid.

You might want to give them some additional shelter if they get out. I give mine cat litter jugs with bedding once they start coming out of the nest, but obviously didn't catch this litter in time. In my defense, I was in town all day, but still.



Sorry you lost the kit. Hopefully the rest of the litter will be okay. :clover:

On a separately related note: My dog loves rabbits which actually have hair and are completely frozen. They are like a frozen chew toy to him. At least someone can get some joy out of this.

I gave mine to the barn cats, and they were not very enthusiastic. They prefer theirs thawed.

 

[mystang89]

Sorry to pass my luck to you MSD Question about your set up there with the cat litter jugs. How does the mom feed the little ones in there? It doesn't look like she can even get in there much less sit over them. I have actually been thinking about making a nesting box with a hole (not a large opening like see most boxes with) just large enough for the doe to hop in and out of. The hole would be about 4 - 5" from the bottom. Anyone else done this or can think of a reason it should NOT be done? Downsides to it?

__________ Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:25 am __________

Much like this one except with the hole being higher off the ground.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/...IjfLeDhC_tB70zBXFvSOPBdXCHfUywzSDGky7k7kX6W-w

Hmmm, or this one. I like the idea of being able to get into it from the top. Maybe instead of having a slide on lid just having hinges.

http://i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/743207584/Nest_Box_For_Rabbit.jpg_220x220.jpg

 

[michaels4gardens]

IMHO--I would recomend the hole being as high as you can get it, --other then that, I think it is a good design.

in my lazyness, I made my hole in the end so I could more easily look into the nest box to see what is going on in there, -- but-- I admit I always have to "feel" inside anyway.

 

[mystang89]

The only thing that makes me hesitate on putting the hole as high as I can is my fear that she would end up jumping on the babys. I don't know how rational this fear is though.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Sorry to pass my luck to you MSD

Yeah... who knew that it wasn't only Rabbitosis that was contagious? Finding the one in the water dish was a shocker- it's a shallow bowl, so it could have jumped out. :?

Question about your set up there with the cat litter jugs. How does the mom feed the little ones in there? It doesn't look like she can even get in there much less sit over them.

The doe can't get in there. It is only a place for the kits to snuggle off of the wire once they start coming out of their regular box. Before I had creep feeders I would also put rolled oats inside for the kits so the doe couldn't eat all of them before they got their share.

I have actually been thinking about making a nesting box with a hole about 4 - 5" from the bottom. Much like this one except with the hole being higher off the ground.

I like the nest box designs you posted. I think you should put the bottom of the hole even higher though. The BASS nests are 8 1/2" high. Depending on how the doe builds her nest, there can be a lot of nesting material near the entry and the kits could crawl out. With the opening at 5", even with only 2" of bedding, the kits only have 3" to stretch and they will be out of the box.

The only thing that makes me hesitate on putting the hole as high as I can is my fear that she would end up jumping on the babys. I don't know how rational this fear is though.

She is going to know where her babies are, with the exception of the occasional kit that crawls out of the nesting hollow. I don't think it is anything major to worry about.

Remember when we talked about using a bucket with an entry hole cut into the lid? I still like that idea, and may even make one myself since I have a couple of does housed in the growout pens (Beverens, the Satin that lost her litter, and the Leonis Rex) and they are not under a roof. Even though I have plastic on top of the cages, the wind can blow rain or snow (or just cold air!) into the cages and I think buckets would provide more protection.

I would make hooks for the bucket so that I could raise the front of the bucket off of the cage floor so it slopes back slightly, making it a bit more challenging for the kits to climb toward the opening. If you are handy with wood, you could even make a simple support to hold the front of the bucket up. Having the bucket slope toward the back would also encourage the doe to make her hollow at the back of the box as opposed to near the door.

Downsides to it?

The only downsides I can think of is condensation and/or heat buildup in the box, especially if your climate is damp already. That could easily be solved by cutting or drilling vents near the top of the box.

 

[mystang89]

She is going to know where her babies are, with the exception of the occasional kit that crawls out of the nesting hollow. I don't think it is anything major to worry about.

Remember when we talked about using a bucket with an entry hole cut into the lid? I still like that idea, and may even make one myself since I have a couple of does housed in the growout pens (Beverens, the Satin that lost her litter, and the Leonis Rex) and they are not under a roof. Even though I have plastic on top of the cages, the wind can blow rain or snow (or just cold air!) into the cages and I think buckets would provide more protection.

I would make hooks for the bucket so that I could raise the front of the bucket off of the cage floor so it slopes back slightly, making it a bit more challenging for the kits to climb toward the opening. If you are handy with wood, you could even make a simple support to hold the front of the bucket up. Having the bucket slope toward the back would also encourage the doe to make her hollow at the back of the box as opposed to near the door.

The only thing that I worried about with that is that how slick the plastic bucket is. Nothing would have any traction and with no traction I've found a very large increase in the risk of splayed foot. Also, everything would just slide onto one another since it had no traction plus everything would be in a "valley" of sorts. I had rabbits in a cage with a plastic bottom (pet cage) and 50% of them ended up with splayed feet.

On a related note: How the *insert expletive* do you not know to simply walk back to the warm spot that you had just come from and and cuddle up with everyone else?! :furious: Seriously!!!! :furious: :furious: Had another kit dead on the wire today. STUPID things. :furious: When I get cold my train of thought goes something like this. "I'm cold. Where was it warm last? Maybe I'll simply walk there!!!" Grrrrrrrr

 

[MamaSheepdog]

The only thing that I worried about with that is that how slick the plastic bucket is. Nothing would have any traction and with no traction I've found a very large increase in the risk of splayed foot. Also, everything would just slide onto one another since it had no traction plus everything would be in a "valley" of sorts.

I imagined that the bedding would all form a pretty level surface because of the roundness of the bucket. :? But you could be right. I'll try it with one of our smaller food grade buckets as a shelter for kits out of their normal nest and see what happens.

I had a couple of cases of spay leg when I put the plastic wallboard in my wire nests during the summer when the kits pushed the bedding away to make a clear spot to lay on. Because of that I now put it under the nest so they will have the floor wire as traction.

How the *insert expletive* do you not know to simply walk back to the warm spot that you had just come from and and cuddle up with everyone else?!

Sometimes kits that have something wrong with them go off by themselves (or are forced away from the others) to die.

Or... it could have been a male who refused to ask for directions. :twisted:

Sorry you lost another one, Mystang.

 

[mystang89]

Or... it could have been a male who refused to ask for directions. :twisted:

lol - More like a male who couldn't take all the females nagging and decided to go "someplace better".

I'm am going to assume that you will have a litter, (or 12) sooner than I am so if you do try that 5 gal bucket please let me know how it works. If I end up having kits sometime soon ( :lol: ) then I will try it. If the kits come out splay legged then I'll name them in honor of you okeeye:

 

[skysthelimit]

I've been using the sterlite plastic tubs for a while and haven't had any problems with spay legs.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Or... it could have been a male who refused to ask for directions. :twisted:

lol - More like a male who couldn't take all the females nagging and decided to go "someplace better".

Touche! :lol:

I'm am going to assume that you will have a litter, (or 12) sooner than I am so if you do try that 5 gal bucket please let me know how it works.

Well, as a matter of fact I have six (count 'em! SIX!!!) due for nests between the 14th and 19th, and more starting the 26th.

However, I have plenty of nestboxes on hand. okeeye:

I do have a litter in the growout area that is only moments away from venturing out of their nest though. They are 3 Leonis Rex kits and the sole survivors from the doomed Satin litter by virtue of having been fostered. I will make them a bedded bucket just for you! :angel:

If I end up having kits sometime soon ( :lol: ) then I will try it. If the kits come out splay legged then I'll name them in honor of you okeeye:

That would be splendid!

Might I suggest some names?

Goddess, Beauty, Benevolence, Grace, Charity, Queen of her Domain...

No? Well then. :thinking:

Perhaps Brat, Pest, Irritant, Bane (of your existence), Twerp...

 

[Miss M]

If I end up having kits sometime soon

If that happens, you will be a very rich man, with guest appearances on all of the morning shows.

 

[mystang89]

If only my rabbits could have kits as often as I have kids.....

 

[michaels4gardens]

I have used 5 gal plastic , and metal buckets for nest boxes, I screwed a bord or alum. angle to the front bottom of the bucket lid to keep it right-side-up, I cut a hole as high as I could in the lid with a jig saw, and then snapped the lid on, if you can get metal lids they last a lot longer, [because they can't chew them]but you have to bend over the metal at the bottom of the hole so it doesn't cut the rabbits as they go in and out, -- the negetive I had was, I had to keep good absorbent bedding in them , and change it more often, then in my wood nest boxes, as it got wet more often.