Question on californian kits fur colouring

[Julz]

Hi
i have 7 kits at 10 weeks old 3 of them are all white and the rest are typical Californian coloring, will the 3 white ones turn the same as the the others colors or do i have a dominant gene of newzealand white rabbit? the pure white ones are bigger than most of the others too.

 

[jollysrabbits]

you most likely have a mix, calis usually have at least some greying by 10-15 days let alone 10 weeks.

 

[Dood]

:yeahthat: if the white kits do not have points by now they will never have them and are Red Eyed Whites (REW)

do i have a dominant gene of newzealand white

the white gene is recessive to the himilayan/California marked so the kits who look Californian may carry the REW gene but the REW kits do not have the himilayan gene and cannot produce California marked kits if bred to another REW rabbit.

 

[Julz]

:yeahthat: if the white kits do not have points by now they will never have them and are Red Eyed Whites (REW)

do i have a dominant gene of newzealand white

the white gene is recessive to the himilayan/California marked so the kits who look Californian may carry the REW gene but the REW kits do not have the himilayan gene and cannot produce California marked kits if bred to another REW rabbit.

thats strange and a bit confusing, i was told by the breeder who i bought the doe and buck that they were pure bred Californian so they cant be called californian rabbits after all what with the 3kits resulting in REW , but if the REW ones were bred to a californian marked would i get a mix litter again? the buck parent is slightly lighter eared than the doe who looks typical californian, i hope this means they still ok for meat i guess they are mutts then? is that righrt..thanx Dood<br /><br />__________ Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:00 pm __________<br /><br />

you most likely have a mix, calis usually have at least some greying by 10-15 days let alone 10 weeks.

Hi Jollysrabbits, one of the kits got his greying around 3 and a half to 4 weeks and he is the darkest one of the lot now, what sort of mix do you think they are?

 

[Dood]

i was told by the breeder who i bought the doe and buck that they were pure bred Californian

Its not impossible but highly unlikely. Somewhere in the past there is REW in both parents as both must carry the gene to get white kits.

if the REW ones were bred to a californian marked would i get a mix litter again?

Yes, statistically half would be REW and the other half California marked who definitely carry a hidden REW gene.

one of the kits got his greying around 3 and a half to 4 weeks and he is the darkest one of the lot now

The fact they developed points later in life makes me believe they are agouti based, which is not a recognized colour in Californians. Is the underside of their tails nearly white? If so then they are likely genetically chestnuts under their white coats.

what sort of mix do you think they are?

likely new Zealand white crosses.

 

[Julz]

Ahh thanks so much for your help there Dood, I will have to check all the marked kits tails for the whitenesss you mentioned, as cant recall right now but all the whites are definitely all white, and am so pleased they can be identified correctly.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

The only other thing that *could* cause a Cali to look like a REW is if the temperature is really hot. In the summer here in Texas, some of my Calis lose ALL their point coloring till it cools down again. Not sure if that is the issue with yours, just thought I would mention it. You say the buck is lighter in coloring on his points? That is usually indicative of a Cali/NZW mix. It could be that HE is not 100% purebred, but your doe is.

 

[Miss M]

Don't people sometimes breed in another breed to bring in qualities from that breed, and then three generations later they would be considered pure again?

Maybe that's what happened... she bred in a NZW four or more generations ago, and now the genes have popped up to the top in this litter... and they would still be considered Californians, but obviously you wouldn't want to keep them or sell them for breeding stock.

 

[Dood]

Maybe that's what happened... she bred in a NZW four or more generations ago, and now the genes have popped up to the top in this litter... and they would still be considered Californians, but obviously you wouldn't want to keep them or sell them for breeding stock.

If this is the case then the breeder would get some REW in the second gen and only the occasional REW cali after 3 or 4 generations. If she culled these REW cali's then she should not be getting any REW kits born by now and pretty much eliminated the gene from her line. It is very suspicious that BOTH parents just happened to get the gene.

 

[Miss M]

If this is the case then the breeder would get some REW in the second gen and only the occasional REW cali after 3 or 4 generations. If she culled these REW cali's then she should not be getting any REW kits born by now and pretty much eliminated the gene from her line. It is very suspicious that BOTH parents just happened to get the gene.

Okay, I get it. Thank you!

 

[Julz]

The only other thing that *could* cause a Cali to look like a REW is if the temperature is really hot. In the summer here in Texas, some of my Calis lose ALL their point coloring till it cools down again. Not sure if that is the issue with yours, just thought I would mention it. You say the buck is lighter in coloring on his points? That is usually indicative of a Cali/NZW mix. It could be that HE is not 100% purebred, but your doe is.

Thanks 1AF, definitely not anything to do with hot weather they were born in the snowy month of january! but thats still interesting,yes the buck has light brown points compared to the does deep dark points.

__________ Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:48 pm __________

Don't people sometimes breed in another breed to bring in qualities from that breed, and then three generations later they would be considered pure again?

Maybe that's what happened... she bred in a NZW four or more generations ago, and now the genes have popped up to the top in this litter... and they would still be considered Californians, but obviously you wouldn't want to keep them or sell them for breeding stock.

Hi Miss M, why would i 'obviously not want to keep them or sell them for breeding stock'?....do you think i should go find another breeding pair or wait till the next litter arrives so i can see if it was a genetic out break and they still are ok for meat rabbits right?<br /><br />__________ Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:12 pm __________<br /><br />

Maybe that's what happened... she bred in a NZW four or more generations ago, and now the genes have popped up to the top in this litter... and they would still be considered Californians, but obviously you wouldn't want to keep them or sell them for breeding stock.

If this is the case then the breeder would get some REW in the second gen and only the occasional REW cali after 3 or 4 generations. If she culled these REW cali's then she should not be getting any REW kits born by now and pretty much eliminated the gene from her line. It is very suspicious that BOTH parents just happened to get the gene.

Hi Dood, this is her 4th litter, ive only had her and the buck (bought as a 'breeding -pair')since sept 2012 when she since had 1 litter with me and i do not know about the history of her previous kits, I really wanted to line breed with what i thought was the pick of this litter (with Cali points) back to the buck, i just presumed Cali's could sometimes appear as my buck does with lighter points, but now i dont think i could do this could i? well not from a selling point as pointed out they are mixed i guess there is a bigger price reduction on mixes, and what if i kept a buck from this litter with points and line bred him back to the doe ...still same scenario? this is quite a shame for my situation here as im feeding them organically, expensive first time operation, the buck and the doe were hard enough to find and i feel ive been ripped off by the 'breeder' i bought them off and cant get hold of them...unless they advertise again ...why do you feel it 'very suspicious that BOTH parents happened to get the gene'? sorry its all new to me and find it bit difficult understanding it all the genetics etc at this point and thanks for your input I really appreciate it.

 

[Dood]

I think she means sell them as 'purebred' Californians or keep as breeders if you were interested in rabbit showing.

Since they are likely NZ crosses they are probably not show quality and should not be sold as pure Cali's. They could introduce unwanted colours or body-types to someone's herd of purebred Californians, people don't like surpises in their supposedly purebred stock and you wouldn't want anyone else getting REW. You could certainly sell them as crossbreds and they all taste the same

 

[Julz]

I think she means sell them as 'purebred' Californians or keep as breeders if you were interested in rabbit showing.

Since they are likely NZ crosses they are probably not show quality and should not be sold as pure Cali's. They could introduce unwanted colours or body-types to someone's herd of purebred Californians, people don't like surpises in their supposedly purebred stock and you wouldn't want anyone else getting REW. You could certainly sell them as crossbreds and they all taste the same

Thats good as no intention of showing...though i must admit i am now one of those who did not like the surprize that these were not pure bred as i was told! And thats even better that they 'all taste the same' Dood because thats my main intention with them, thanks so much :bunnyhop: