question about feeding runt

[Rainey]

I have a litter of 6 meat mutt kits from a first time doe. One was from birth about half the size of the others. They are now 4 days old. I've done a search and read some helpful posts about how to dispatch runts and options for feeding them. But I still have some questions

At what point and on what criteria do any of you decide whether to feed or to dispatch?

I thought of taking either just the runt or the runt and half of the rest of the litter at each feeding to give the little one a chance to catch up. Since there are only 6 of them anyway, would this help? And would the lower demand for milk lower the does production? (I know from having been a nursing mother that production adjusts to demand at least in humans) If we put 3 kits out at first and then added the others would the doe get back in the nest box and nurse the late arrivals or once she's been there, done that for the morning or evening feed, is she done?

If we tried to supplement with formula, we have goats and so milk. The formula seems to call for evaporated milk with no water added. Has anyone tried fresh goat milk? Should we change the amount of egg or sweetener if we use the fresh milk? I read that molasses can be used instead of corn syrup--anyone see a problem with that?

Thanks for all the information I found in my search of old posts and for help with these questions

 

[katiebear]

I have a runt that just turned 5weeks old..he started out about half the size of the others,7 in all...mom weened at 4weeks.. he is about 2/3 the size of his siblings now and I believe he will make butcher weight about the same time as the others..I didn't supplement...I figure if a runt makes it past the first week then they will be just fine.

 

[Susie570]

I think you would be better off giving the runt a supplemental feeding from the doe, separately, for a few days (at least) to see how it fairs.

You may want to see how well that worked with my runt on the 'fed vs unfed' thread (Peewee)

 

[Rainey]

I think you would be better off giving the runt a supplemental feeding from the doe, separately, for a few days (at least) to see how it fairs.

You may want to see how well that worked with my runt on the 'fed vs unfed' thread (Peewee)

I saw your posts about Peewee when I searched about runts--they were encouraging. What I am trying to understand is what effect feeding one kit separately has on the does milk production and whether she will get back in the nest box and feed the rest of the litter if she has already nursed the one. I don't see our does in the nest box at all and understand they only go in to nurse and only do that twice a day (or some of them only once)

 

[Rainey]

I think you would be better off giving the runt a supplemental feeding from the doe, separately, for a few days (at least) to see how it fairs.

You may want to see how well that worked with my runt on the 'fed vs unfed' thread (Peewee)

I saw your posts about Peewee when I searched about runts--they were encouraging. What I am trying to understand is what effect feeding one kit separately has on the does milk production and whether she will get back in the nest box and feed the rest of the litter if she has already nursed the one. I don't see our does in the nest box at all and understand they only go in to nurse and only do that twice a day (or some of them only once)

 

[Zass]

Taking 1/2 the kits away early on can cause engorgement problems. With only 6 kits, chances are, your runt will do fine on it's own.

 

[Susie570]

I saw your posts about Peewee when I searched about runts--they were encouraging. What I am trying to understand is what effect feeding one kit separately has on the does milk production and whether she will get back in the nest box and feed the rest of the litter if she has already nursed the one. I don't see our does in the nest box at all and understand they only go in to nurse and only do that twice a day (or some of them only once)

If you take the runt out and give it supplemental feedings from the doe, like I did, I can only think it would increase milk production and give the runt EXTRA feedings, in addition to the ones it should be getting with the rest of the litter.

Edit: To be clear, I don't mean to remove the runt from the nest completely, but just take it out for a supplemental feeding with the doe once/day. My doe cooperated pretty well once I got her settled. The supplemental feeding usually took 15 minutes or so, maybe a little longer. Takes time for the doe to settle down, relax and let her milk down, then a little while for the runt to get a full belly.

 

[Miss M]

Yes, a supplemental feeding on the doe is ideal. Sometimes it works out for us, sometimes not. When it doesn't, that's when we tend to break out the eyedropper.

People have raised baby rabbits on fresh goat's milk. You could certainly supplement with it, with or without additions. I'd be likely to add egg yolk and some syrup if I was pretty sure the kit was not getting much from the doe, if anything.

The formula with evaporated goat's milk is very nutrient-dense, because baby rabbits grow so quickly. The formula I found originally called for 1/2 cup evaporated goat's milk, 1/2 cup water, 1 tablespoon corn syrup, and 1 egg yolk. The results were mediocre. I figured maybe it was too diluted, and didn't have enough nutritional value in the small amount a rabbit eats. That's why I tried nixing the water entirely. With the volume cut in half, I cut the syrup in half. The egg yolk... not so easy to cut in half, so I just left the whole thing in there. I've had mostly great results. The ones that haven't made it have been the ones with other problems... like they can't figure out how to eat. You can't fix that.

At what point and on what criteria do any of you decide whether to feed or to dispatch?

I haven't yet dispatched a runt. If I find a bun that hasn't had a good meal in a couple of tries, when the others are fat and sassy, we'll try to get him a feeding on his mom. If he doesn't get enough then, we'll supplement. The remainder of the goat's milk and the formula can be frozen for future use. I freeze the milk in 1/2 cup amounts. The formula would be best frozen in an ice cube tray, so it can be defrosted in small amounts.

Most of them make it and catch up, a few of them don't make it. One of the ones in the videos, named "Snack" because he was so small (he had escaped from the cage a few times and missed several feedings), caught up and was the same size as the others on butchering day.

I read that molasses can be used instead of corn syrup--anyone see a problem with that?

Nope, I don't think there would be a problem with that at all. I used corn syrup only because it was in the original recipe that I modified, and because it has a strong flavor that I wasn't sure would appeal to baby buns. But I doubt it would actually be a problem.

You may want to see how well that worked with my runt on the 'fed vs unfed' thread (Peewee)

That's awesome! I'll have to try to remember to do that next time.

 

[Susie570]

You may want to see how well that worked with my runt on the 'fed vs unfed' thread (Peewee)

That's awesome! I'll have to try to remember to do that next time.

Thanks! I'm glad I thought to take pictures and I was amazed at how quickly she 'caught up' with just a few supplemental feedings. I'm sure PeeWee would have died within the next day or so if I hadn't caught her being so scrawny looking, but now she's thriving.

 

[Rainey]

Yes, a supplemental feeding on the doe is ideal. Sometimes it works out for us, sometimes not. When it doesn't, that's when we tend to break out the eyedropper.

We're keeping the kits inside because it's still cold here and we lost a litter last month to another first time mother. So we take the nest box of kits out to the doe twice a day. What I still don't understand is whether, if we took it out with just the runt in it to get a feed without competition, we could then put the others in and she would feed them without waiting 12 hours. I understand that some people hold a kit in their lap and hold the doe over them for a feeding, but I don't think that given our does reaction to being handled she'd let down her milk and also worry that if she struggled she could claw the kit

People have raised baby rabbits on fresh goat's milk. You could certainly supplement with it, with or without additions. I'd be likely to add egg yolk and some syrup if I was pretty sure the kit was not getting much from the doe, if anything.
Thanks--that's good to know. The runt is getting something in the regular feeding time, but isn't as full as I'd like to see. Could try the goat milk concoction if an extra go with the doe doesn't work.

 

[Susie570]

What I still don't understand is whether, if we took it out with just the runt in it to get a feed without competition, we could then put the others in and she would feed them without waiting 12 hours.

I believe that she would go in and feed the kits again, without waiting 12 hrs.

Personally, I would bring all of the kits out to her in the evening, then bring the runt out to her in the middle of the day to see if she would hop in and feed it.