Questing how to tell. (Moisture on face)

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2 bun-owner

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Question? How do you know if a bun
Is drooling or if its just water from the
Bowl/ bottle? I haven't not noticed
His before and Thumps front
Legs are wet from him licking
Them. Also, his nose is wet.
Could this be from him licking
Is feet as well??
 
Does he have a water bowl?
If the answer is yes, He may be
placing his feed into his water bowl.
Try using a water Bottle and see if the nose is still wet.
Ottersatin. :eek:ldtimer:
 
Ok, went out there to check on him. And he's just
Laying in his box. He's usually in the open area.
I have both water bottle and bowl for him. I noticed
Some white runny/ snot coming from his nose.

I just went out and fed an he usually is circling his
Pan till I put his food in there. Now he didn't do that
And was in his box. I brought him
To his pan an he ran right back into the box.
 
Definitely sounds like Pasteurella... IMO it's not treatable. I will probably get some tomatoes thrown at me for saying this, but in my mind there is no doubt thta it is "the dreaded P"...

I'm sorry. :(
 
What???<br /><br />__________ Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:27 pm __________<br /><br />
OwnedByTheBuns":3c1qp3yv said:
Hmmm... it may be from a bowl.. but those can be tell tale signs of Snuffles.
I just went online and this is what I found.



Every rabbit has pasteurella....so does every mammal (including humans) and many birds. It is an "opportunistic" bacteria that lies dormant until the opportunity arises that it can grow. In an ideal world, the host's immune system can keep this bacteria under control. In rabbits,it most often presents as an Upper Respiratory Infection but can invade any body tissue and is commonly found as a "tag along" in abscess situations. Pasteurella can't be technically cured but can be controlled....a type of remission. I call it "putting the genie back into the bottle". Most strains of Pasteurella are sensitive to penicillin and cephalosporins...but few vets know how to properly use these drugs. They are safe only as injectables. Most vets continue to use old Sulfa drugs (Bactrim, Septra, Sulfatrim, Trimethoprim, etc.) and early floroquinolones (Cipro and Baytril) but they are increasingly ineffective in today's world due to resistance. I have used a new floroquinolone (Zeniquin/Marbofloxacin) successfully. My current drug of choice against Pasteurella is Azithromycin (Zithromax). Regardless of the pathogen and/or drug used....in order to reduce the chance of resistant bacteria in the future, it is important for your doctor to clinically identify the pathogen and prescribe an appropriate drug and it's your responsibility to administer any drugs exactly as prescribed both in amount and duration. The trend in human medicine is to limit antibiotics to only more complex infections (and that should be trickling down to veterianry medicine) in an effort to limit future resistance issues.
 
I suppose every rabbit has it. A good rabbitry will not have it turn into an infection. It cannot be cured. They can be treated, but it's a long process and sometimes doesn't work. Expensive too.

Most breeders would cull any animal with pasteurella. If every mammal has it, it wouldn't be a great big deal for it to spread to dogs, chickens, and other mammals. Dogs can also get infected and die from it. Rabbits can die from it too. It is an infection as the paragraph states, very contagious too. Keep him away from every rabbit you have. Extensive care is needed, or he will need to be culled.
 
Move her ASAP. It may be too late, you'll have to wait and find out.

I have no knowledge on the specific care, I just know it's extensive... ;) Try PMing MaggieJ and MamaSheepDog about it, I am fairly sure they would know how to deal with it.

I would try feeding a bit of bread and a little bit of yarrow.
 
I did get him to eat some. I moved is pan to him
In the box. Went to check on him again an there
Is no water/ snot in/on/ or around his nose anymore.
There is drool/water on both sides of his mouth
And under his chin.
 
I would strongly suggest separating the two bunnies with a solid wall and preferably, at lest 6 feet of space. Pasteurella is spread by contact and can be spread if one rabbit sneezes in another's face. It's not airborne, so there's no need to panic just yet.

Also, feed and care for the healthy rabbit first, before handling the sick one. You don't want to inadvertently transfer it from one rabbit to the other.

I had one rabbit who started sneezing and I treated her with 0.5cc oxytetracycline (LA-200) injected just below the skin on the scruff of her neck once a day for 2 weeks. I also gave her the "Bunny Vac" pasteurella vaccine with the first shot.

She stopped sneezing and has been healthy since, raising a litter of 5 kits. I can't confirm that she had pasteurella, though. In any case, she's vaccinated now.

Some people here seem to advise culling as a first step and a cureall for anything. I disagree.

So the question is how important this rabbit is to you. Mine is a pet, as well as a breeder. I evidently fell out of favor from the cullers, but that's not my problem. I still have my sweet bunny.

Good luck.
 
Every rabbit has pasteurella....so does every mammal (including humans) and many birds. It is an "opportunistic" bacteria that lies dormant until the opportunity arises that it can grow. In an ideal world, the host's immune system can keep this bacteria under control. In rabbits,it most often presents as an Upper Respiratory Infection but can invade any body tissue and is commonly found as a "tag along" in abscess situations. Pasteurella can't be technically cured but can be controlled....a type of remission. I call it "putting the genie back into the bottle". Most strains of Pasteurella are sensitive to penicillin and cephalosporins...but few vets know how to properly use these drugs. They are safe only as injectables. Most vets continue to use old Sulfa drugs (Bactrim, Septra, Sulfatrim, Trimethoprim, etc.) and early floroquinolones (Cipro and Baytril) but they are increasingly ineffective in today's world due to resistance. I have used a new floroquinolone (Zeniquin/Marbofloxacin) successfully. My current drug of choice against Pasteurella is Azithromycin (Zithromax). Regardless of the pathogen and/or drug used....in order to reduce the chance of resistant bacteria in the future, it is important for your doctor to clinically identify the pathogen and prescribe an appropriate drug and it's your responsibility to administer any drugs exactly as prescribed both in amount and duration. The trend in human medicine is to limit antibiotics to only more complex infections (and that should be trickling down to veterianry medicine) in an effort to limit future resistance issues.

Where did you get this information from, 2 bun-owner?

Since you only have two rabbits, I assume they are pets. You could take your rabbit to the vet if you can afford it, but many vets do not know much about rabbits or pasteurella so it could be a waste of money. Try to find out first if the vet has experience with rabbits.

I'd keep him separate for a day or two and see what happens. If he gets worse, I suggest you euthanize him. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh. :(

I see TMTex has posted with a more optimistic view of the situation. Perhaps trying his method will work.

TM, just because some of us cull at the first sign of serious illness does not mean we think that is the only way of going about things. Most of us are not that inflexible! :)
 
TMTex":2f85ae96 said:
I would strongly suggest separating the two bunnies with a solid wall and preferably, at lest 6 feet of space. Pasteurella is spread by contact and can be spread if one rabbit sneezes in another's face. It's not airborne, so there's no need to panic just yet.

Also, feed and care for the healthy rabbit first, before handling the sick one. You don't want to inadvertently transfer it from one rabbit to the other.

I had one rabbit who started sneezing and I treated her with 0.5cc oxytetracycline (LA-200) injected just below the skin on the scruff of her neck once a day for 2 weeks. I also gave her the "Bunny Vac" pasteurella vaccine with the first shot.

She stopped sneezing and has been healthy since, raising a litter of 5 kits. I can't confirm that she had pasteurella, though. In any case, she's vaccinated now.

Some people here seem to advise culling as a first step and a cureall for anything. I disagree.

So the question is how important this rabbit is to you. Mine is a pet, as well as a breeder. I evidently fell out of favor from the cullers, but that's not my problem. I still have my sweet bunny.

Good luck.

He is a pet and won't cull him.
I have him in a box
Wih a solid divider. He's eating
Now and actually ran out to the
Open, smelled the female and layed
Down, went to pet him and he ran back into
The box. This is where he is at.
 
The snot will come and go, but it does definitely sound like snuffles. I had my favorite buck come down with it after a nasty case of hairball (lowered his immune system from the weight loss), and I basically burst into tears thinking I was going to have to cull him. I did some research and here's what I found:

Nearly 90% of all rabbits (so basically all rabbits not raised in a sterile lab) carry pasturella in their nasal cavity. It can manifest into an outbreak of snuffles if their immune system takes a dive. There are several kinds of snuffles, some easily treatable, only starting with the runny nose and sneezing (and kept that way if caught soon enough) and there are some strains that are much more severe and can cause lesions in the lungs and other organs (basically nice, thick, pussy abscesses). The worse strains can also manifest in the eyes and cause blindness, or the ear canals and cause wry neck. It is not highly communicable to humans, though it is possible to catch it. The chances of catching Pasturella from rabbits is higher in infants, the elderly, and the immune compromised.

What I did:

I immediately quarantined the buck, and then I called my vet to see what we could do. She had me take an exact weight of my buck, and we got a dosage off of that. He had a much less severe strain, so we were able to clear it up with Baytril. He was given Baytril for 10 days, though the symptoms subsided after the first 12 hours. A typical course of Baytril runs 14 days (some rabbits never get along off antibiotics for the rest of their life) , but it worked for him with only ten days. Either way, I kept him in quarantine for anther two weeks, and he was closely monitored. He had no re-occurrence, and hasn't to this day. (It's been nearly a year.)

There are losses to dealing with a sick rabbit. First being the vet cost. I know my vet very well, and she knows I know quite a bit about general veterinary care and that I do my research. I told her that he had pasturella and she let me come pick up the prescription. Most vets won't do that. Typically you have the expense of an office visit, along with the prescription (which was cheap, by the way. Maybe $8 for ten days). Not to mention that if kept and bred you will be breeding a rabbit that doesn't have as strong of an immune system, and that could potentially pass to the kits.

There are also benefits to saving the rabbit. Maybe that is the one rabbit in your herd that carries a trait you are trying to work towards. If it was any other of my rabbits than that buck (he's my baby, and my best wooled buck), they would have been culled.

You'll have to weigh the pros and cons to keeping him and make your own decision.
 
Ok, there was good info there. I'm
Quarantine him right now and see.
I'm calling the vet in the am a well.
Thanks for the info.
 
I think a lot of us cull because it's too time consuming and expensive to try to treat a bun, and the chances it will come back are too great. The infection can live so deep in the nasal passage that it may be impossible to eradicate. Vaccinating the bun will not prevent the bun from displaying symptoms permanently or keep it from being contagious. There are too many strains of P. that the vaccination doesn't cover.

I'd rather cull one than loose my whole herd. When you start losing your whole herd because of one bunny, you may feel differently.

Ask me how I know this.
 
Try to figure out what screwed with his immune system. Has it been hot or any critters been harassing him? Maybe something upset him and brought it on. Also, maybe treat him for cocci? Once I had some rabbits catch cocci and snuffles took over. ):

If you don't plan to show or sell, I'd say he could still go on to live a fairly content life as a companion. It would not be fair to him if he's miserable all the time though, so learn to recognizes signs of discomfort (there's more than just teeth-grinding). One of my favorite rabbits ever could not sleep because of the snuffles (he always woke up choking and gagging), and although it was really hard to let him go, I'd decided it wasn't fair to him. :c I'm still bummed about it.

You ought to think about what's gunna happen to that accident litter. (It was you who had an oops breeding, right?) Are the babies going to be given away/sold as pets? You could be handing over heartache and a potentially huge vet bill to an unsuspecting pet owner, which really isn't nice. :(
 
No it might not be but I didn't
Intentionally breed her knowing
My buck had this. If I knew this,
I would have taken action before now.

It has been hot
Yes. Today was hot an yesterday
Was hot/ humid.
 
We don't cull because we don't care, we cull because we do.

The reason I would cull if a rabbit had Snuffles is because I don't want it to die harshly and suffer. I would rather get it over with easily to where he never even knew he felt bad. And so it wouldn't risk EVERYONE's lives.

Just sayin, we don't cull because we are careless breeders. :)
 
Update-

Went and feed this am and my
Buck seems to be fine. Eating, running
Around, no runny nose/drool. I think maybe
Since it was hot yesterday and I didn't
Put the frozen water bottle in there right away
That he got maybe little too warm and
Was his way of telling me by drooling.
Just my thought I guess. I'm still taking
Caution and washing and doing all
That just in case. I'm calling the vet now
To see what they want me to do.
 
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