Q: agouti colouring

[Tbgb1912]

Q: agouti colouring

Basically, I'm asking if the agouti colouring - nose and eye markings, paler back of the neck, white tail, etc. - come out as they grow up? One of my kits has the agouti colouring but the other doesn't. It has the ticking/speckle in the coat, but not standard markings of agouti colouring.
If the kits skin at birth wasn't agouti coloured, does this mean that it isn't classed as agouti even with the paler tipped coat?


Also, are the black tipped ears on my agouti coloured kit, traditional of the colouring? My buck doesn't have tipped ears and it was suggested that he is sable rather than chinchilla

:shock: so confused about this genetics thing. Sorry I'm a noob :lol:

Parents for reference:
Buck - blue agouti chinchilla
Doe : chocolate

 

[Celice]

the first picture is of a standard Chinchilla and the one on the bottom look like a Blue Chinchilla Steel

 

[Zass]

Yep, steel is genetically agouti, but modified, so that it never gets all of the markings. Usually the white agouti marks will be reduced or non-existent. Steel extends the base coat color (black, blue, chocolate or lilac) so that the agouti marks appear as just ticking.

 

[Tbgb1912]

the first picture is of a standard Chinchilla and the one on the bottom look like a Blue Chinchilla Steel

Does steel have the same coat patterning?


Here's younger photos of the two if any of these help

 

[Zass]

Yep. That's a steel alright.

 

[Tbgb1912]

Yep, steel is genetically agouti, but modified, so that it never gets all of the markings. Usually the white agouti marks will be reduced or non-existent. Steel extends the base coat color (black, blue, chocolate or lilac) so that the agouti marks appear as just ticking.

So how can you tell if you have steel? :lol: just the ticking in the coat?

 

[Celice]

Does steel have the same coat patterning?

Yep, though depending on how dark the patterning is a Steel can look solid. Just try to keep track of who carries steel and you'll know when you breed how likely it is to get it. Steel is bad for muting colors.

 

[Tbgb1912]

So how are gold tipped and silver tipped steels produced? And what does this mean? :lol:

 

[Celice]

So how are gold tipped and silver tipped steels produced? And what does this mean? :lol:

Gold tipping is linked to agouti. Silver tipping is linked to Chinchilla. Zass has lots of pictures on the many color variations she's been fighting steel for a LONG time!

 

[Dood]

The colours of the kits when young (shading more like a sable and lots of beige tones instead of white) leads me to believe they are sable/ light shaded gene agouti and not chinchilla/dark shaded gene and agouti

Steel extends the dark band in agouti rabbits and I think you must have a blue steel sable agouti = Aa Bb cchl_ dd Es e

A "gold tipped steel" is a chestnut with a steel gene and a "silver tipped steel" is a chinchilla (or sable agouti) with a steel gene, they can come in black, chocolate, blue and lilac varieties

 

[Tbgb1912]

The colours of the kits when young (shading more like a sable and lots of beige tones instead of white) leads me to believe they are sable/ light shaded gene agouti and not chinchilla/dark shaded gene and agouti

Steel extends the dark band in agouti rabbits and I think you must have a blue steel sable agouti = Aa Bb cchl_ dd Es e

A "gold tipped steel" is a chestnut with a steel gene and a "silver tipped steel" is a chinchilla (or sable agouti) with a steel gene, they can come in black, chocolate, blue and lilac varieties

Now you've got me lost on sable :lol: how are sable and steel connected? I recall you saying that my buck could be sable, if I test bred him with a REW. But could my chocolate doe hold the steel gene if it is recessive? Or sable gene?

 

[Zass]

Steel isn't a recessive gene, it's actually the most dominant gene at the locus for extension. (I think I said that right.) So it only takes one copy of steel (Es - Extension steel) to "wreak" an agouti coat. I say it like that, but steels are often quite lovely.

It's totally invisible on a self coat however...as the base color is already covering the entire hair shaft..so it just doesn't have anything to affect.

 

[Dood]

Steel and sable are not connected - they are on different colour loci and any rabbit can have both of these genes.

On the C-locus there are 5 mutations

C_ which is the most dominant and can hide the other 4, it is called full colour and is what your chocolate doe carries

cchd_ which is the next most dominant and is the chinchilla /dark shaded gene

cchl_ is next and is the shaded / light shaded gene

ch_ which is himilayan

cc which is Red Eyed White (REW) and the most recessive

On the E-locus there are 4 colour mutations

Es_ is steel and the most dominant but is hidden be self based rabbits so your doe is a likely carrier since if your buck (the shaded agouti or chin agouti) had the gene he would look steel

E_ is full extension and what the chinchilla kit carries since he is not steel (or Magpie/harlequin or frosty/non extension)

ej _ is Japanese harlequin

ee is the most recessive and called non extension

 

[Zass]

:yeahthat:

Thankfully...Dood was feeling a bit less lazy than I was.

 

[Tbgb1912]

So my chocolate doe has the steel gene, and I have another doe from the same parents, but she's fawn. And fawn is ee (but can't be Es?) so breeding my buck with her won't result in steels? *trying to get my head around it*

You guys at with super helpful by the way, I appreciate your patience!


Edit: wait, fawn must still be able to carry steel if there are gold tipped steels -.-

 

[akane]

Gold tipped steel is a full color agouti like chestnut. Silver tipped steels are the chinchilla colors. Nonextension rabbits (red/orange/fawn) cannot be steel, gold tipped or silver.

 

[Tbgb1912]

Wow this genetics thing is super confusing to get my head around ._.

 

[Zass]

It's because to be a fawn, a rabbit must be both an agouti and already have two copies of the non-extension gene(e) that is recessive to steel. A_ e e

If the same rabbit had inherited just one copy of steel(Es) and one one non-extension: A_ Es e

That rabbit would visually be a steel and not a fawn.
Or it would be a masked steel that is a genetic agouti who appears to be a self. That trick seems particularly common when steel and non-extension pair up.


In the same, fashion no non-extension color(fawn, red, tort, frosty, etc) can possibly have even a single copy of steel.

 

[Susie570]

Wow this genetics thing is super confusing to get my head around ._.

Join the club. It starts to sink in eventually though.