Put them together, not put them together...?

[Zab]

I feel like I'm banging my head in a wall with these questions... :wall:

Please bare with me. I know I'm making new posts all the time, asking new questions, interfering with old posts etc etc.. I won't even pretend that this will be the last one :blush:

So.. situation.. I have two does that might be expecting kits anyday or week.. but I don't think so. It is highly possible with the buck living wih them 1-2 weeks earlier but I just have this feeling that they're not interested at all in having kits now. I havn't actually seen a successful mount, but he stopped trying pretty soon.

If they're expecting.. I don't think it would be bad to have the kits in the new pen which not only is bigger, but also dryer and less windy. They have houses in the outdoor pen and a tarp at some sides (I will make better walls..) so there are dry areas, but 2/3 of it is wet. Like everything outdoor at this time of year.
Question 1: Would it be harmful to move them - again- right now if they're about to kindle? It can be 1 or 10 days left if they are expecting at all. I've only had them little more than a month so I feel bad about moving them around again.

Question 2: Can I keep the buck in the pen with them? I figure he'll rebreed after kindling which - at least here - is almost a death sin.. but I think the does would be fine with having a new litter so close to the first one single time? If I can't keep him with them I'll have to divide the cage into a smaller part to keep him. I just don't want him to live alone. Keping him with them would however mean that I won't have a clue if there'll be kits or not for another..well, how ever long it'll be. I figure I'll feed the does parsley if they don't kindle in a week.. it can harm if the does's in late pregnancy but is supposed to increase chances of getting pregnant otherwise.
Question 3: Related to question 2; how big is the chance that he'll hurt the newborn kits, if he's kept with the does?

I don't plan to have him in the colony forever.. once I have old enough kits to keep him company in the outside pen he'll get to live there again, by that time the roof and walls will be fixed. I'm a controlfreak who wants to decide and know when they'll kindle.

I feel like such a messup.. I wish I would be consistent with my plans and stick to them but I just flutter around everywhere. I want my rabbits to feel secure, get kits and live happily... but how can they if I keep moving them around and not getting set routines.. :cry_baby:

oh, another question; you who has colonies; do you remove the does when they're about to kindle? If you keep the buck in there all the time - how do you know when to move the does? Or can they kindle safely within the colony?

 

[3mina]

It won't hurt them moving into the new pen but it also won't bother them to kindle where they are if they're due. As far as the litter spacing goes, rabbits will do what they will do when they will do it
As far as I know, not having gone the colony route, you'd have more to worry about from the other doe if she was new rather than the buck bothering the kits.

How in the world are you supposed to have a routine if you are learning? Rabbits are far more adaptable than that. Mine get shifted from cage to cage all the time whenever, wherever, I need to move them. As long as they're getting regular care shifting doesn't matter, at least not my bunns
Being mindful is great, agonizing is a waste of energy.

 

[Zab]

They'll go to the new pen sooner or later either way (I've dropped the idea of waiting untill I get the new does) so if it doesn't matter I can just as well move them..

They're sisters and live together, has done all their lives. So I hope it will be ok..

 

[MaggieJ]

Probably it will be fine. Just make sure there are two good nesting sites. Once in while does will share a nest and the kits, especially if they are raised together. The buck will no harm the babies on purpose, but we did have one buck so eager to breed with the does that he did not even wait until the does finished kindling. Needless to say, a buck like that should no be in with kindling does. To fix that we divided the colony and the buck commuted between the pens. We kept his son to replace him -- he is more of a gentleman. :roll:

By the way, I don't know what you are providing in the way of nest boxes, but I heartily recommend a nest tunnel rather than an open box in a colony. Far fewer losses to chilling and squashing.

 

[Zab]

How would a nest tunnel be built? Is it a tunnel with several entrances or does it have walls etc too?

As for noe I have thee ''structure'' which is 4 holes/boxes. 2 on the ground and 2 stacked on top. All have 3 walls and a roof, one side open.. I originally mean that as more of a playground or hiding spot. I also have the old horse hay-rack which is a rather big, triangular box with a lid and two rather big openings on the open side. You can see it in the picture below. But I'm thinking of making some better nesting places and was thinking of tunnels, so please tell me more

This is how I made it.. yes, once again I acted before even reading all replies.. :wall:
I put the buck in the indoor cage for tonight (it's 150x70cm )and I'll build a 1 metre high wall tomorrow to make a section for him. I hope it will be high enough, otherwise I'll see what I'll do. It's not the end of the world if he escapes in to the does at this stage. The wall will be removable.
If you think I'm a softie about space for the long-ears, you should see the looks my dad gives me for putting Koriander in the smaller cage for a single night.. >_>
When the outdoor pens have walls and roof to keep them more dry, I'll puut the buck and bucklings out again. As it is now.. it doesn't feel nice to go out and give them their dinner in all the rain and know how wet everything is.. even if they have small, dry spots it just feels bad. Especially now when I have the stall in the barn. I'll be happier when they have a roof and walls.
I don't want Koriander with the does since it streses me to not know when or if they can be expected to kindle.

 

[3mina]

I can't get an image
Google cardboard concrete forming tube. The 12" ones will work nicely

 

[Zab]

Sorry, I made it public now so I hope it shows

ok.. *googles*<br /><br />__________ Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:24 pm __________<br /><br />So.. I just leave it like that or I cut holes in it or..? One for each doe? How long? How can I reach the kits in there?

 

[MaggieJ]

A nest tunnel is a long covered nest box with an entrance at one end and a hinged or removable lid for access. I thought you had seen the double nest tunnel in my rabbitry. Single nest tunnels are probably better but mine was repurposed from an old chicken community nest box.

A nest tunnel should be about 3 feet (about a metre) long and perhaps 15 inches (about 38 cm.) high and wide. The dimensions are not critical... You are creating an artificial burrow. You want to be able to lift the top to see what's happening. There are several advantages. The tunnel minimizes that chances of the kits being accidentally stepped on. The doe may plug the entrance with hay/straw and if so the kits stay nice and warm. If she doesn't do this, the other rabbits will enter the tunnel to sleep and their body heat helps keep the kits from chilling.

 

[Bad Habit]

I think that looks like a mighty fine set up, if you ask me!

As far as it goes, does can have back to back litters, provided they are healthy and in good weight. I've had it happen before, and no one here strung me by my ankles, LOL

You need to relax a little though... I mean, look at me! I've been here a year, and am still learning tons, gathering information even if it isn't something I need at the moment. I've asked stupid questions because they came to mind. Asking the questions is how you learn, afterall, and no one is going to judge you for wanting to learn!

 

[Zab]

I wasn't sure exactly how you meant with a tunnel v.s. box How does a nest box differ from a tunnel, then?

So I could basically make a 9 foot tunnel with a hinged lid and divide it with 3 sections with one opening in each? Or two 6 foot tunnels with a ''wall'' in the middle?
I think the triangular box works ok, if they decide to be pregnant. It's also full of straw so they can dig their own holes in it. But I'll be making proper tunnels before too long.

Bad Habit:
Thanks
I just don't want to be annoying with all my posts.. especially since the info probably is in older threads as well, it's ust nicer to discuss it through my own situation..

 

[3mina]

My nestboxes are 3 gallon plastic totes with a hole cut in the side. I use the lids as resting pads for my Rex in their cages. They cost me less than $3 each and at that price I don't care if they get eaten, however, I notice that other than tasting the rabbits don't bother them.
I also have wooden ones I'm not very pleased with since my carpentry skills are subpar.

If all you do is read old threads, how are we supposed to get to know you? I freely admit I seldom read old threads. I'd much rather ask questions and read the current threads. This place isn't like a lot of other forums I've noticed and I like that.

 

[Zab]

3 gallon plastic totes.. is that plastic boxes, like you can buy for storage? I can keep a lookout for cheap ones, although most I see that's big enogh are closer to 15usd each..
Or I might just make y own, I have materials <br /><br />__________ Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:06 pm __________<br /><br />Yeah, this forum is much friendlier.
I keep comparing it with gaitedhorsesense.. which is the first forum I found with this type of mentality. This is the second.. and I've probably visited about 50 or so different forum with different topics (counting ifokus as one) both swedish and english-based.. and most tend to get pretty nasty as soon as you have an opinion that's not ''right''. No matter how I try to put the words non-offensively..

 

[3mina]

That's it exactly, the 3 gallon ones are approximately 16" long, 12" wide and about 11" tall. They are slightly too wide at the top for my cage doors but bend readily. My Rex really like them, so do my Florida Whites.

 

[Zab]

Ok, I can picture the size of that Thanks. I doubt the door will be any problem for me :lol:

 

[Bad Habit]

My nestboxes are 3 gallon plastic totes with a hole cut in the side. I use the lids as resting pads for my Rex in their cages. They cost me less than $3 each and at that price I don't care if they get eaten, however, I notice that other than tasting the rabbits don't bother them.
I also have wooden ones I'm not very pleased with since my carpentry skills are subpar.

If all you do is read old threads, how are we supposed to get to know you? I freely admit I seldom read old threads. I'd much rather ask questions and read the current threads. This place isn't like a lot of other forums I've noticed and I like that.

That is a brilliant idea!! I only have one nest box at the moment, and my mum has her boat in her garage, so my "workshop" isn't going to be able to be used for the next few months. Had the chance to buy more wooden boxes at 10$ each, but construction I didn't like. I am totally going to steal that idea.

Yeah, this forum is much friendlier.
I keep comparing it with gaitedhorsesense.. which is the first forum I found with this type of mentality. This is the second.. and I've probably visited about 50 or so different forum with different topics (counting ifokus as one) both swedish and english-based.. and most tend to get pretty nasty as soon as you have an opinion that's not ''right''. No matter how I try to put the words non-offensively..

I know the feeling!! I love that there's no right/wrong way here, just different experiences, and different ways to do things.

 

[3mina]

and most tend to get pretty nasty as soon as you have an opinion that's not ''right''. No matter how I try to put the words non-offensively..

We'd much rather you worried a little less about offending us than learning what you can, truly.
I'm learning a ton from you, I hope you're learning from us too.

 

[Zab]

You're so sweet

I feel I am learning a lot.. like this colony idea, never thought it possible. And a lot with feed and care in general.

To get back on topic; I've built a fold-able wall to make a section for Koriander. The entire wall can be removed and put back easily, so it's like having an extra cage if I need one Invading on the colony space though. The plan is still to put him back out in the outdoor pen once it has a decent roof and walls, and I have kits to keep him company. But I think this can work for now.

The new section is 115cm x 255cm. (3.7 x 8.3') I open by swining the short side open, it's fairly easy. It's 1metre tall and I hope that the ''loose'' net on top, adding a few inches, will prevent him from jumping out since he won't have anything to step on. Well, swedish record in show jumping is 92cm, so I guess it'll be fine :lol:

I also made some hayracks, one for the does and one for him, and holders for the waterbowls.

School starting up tomorrow and with 4 hours traveling per day I guess I ewon't have a lot of time to build much more, so I rushed to get it finished

 

[Bad Habit]

That looks just awesome, Zab! I bet those are some happy bunnies!!

 

[Zab]

Thanks

 

[GBov]

Very nice, very nice indeed!

As to asking questions, how on earth am I supposed to get new ideas if folks dont ask questions I haven't thought about yet? :lol:

Just learned about duckweed being cracking good quail food because someone asked a question about it and that cattails are super good food for guinea pigs because of another question asked.

I learn all teh time just by other people asking questions.

Keep em coming, I say

And I LOVE this forum for just that reason, no one here thinks there is only one way to raise a rabbit!