Profitability

[BrianRme]

The investment for 30 good production NZ meat rabbit is $450 - $600 tops. Cages $80 for 3 holes, including waterer and feeder. So that would be $800. Total Capital Investment of $1,400. That is not a lot of money to start a business. Then I buy food and wait. If something wrong happens I go go on the internet and figure out what it is and fix it. If it fails, I eat the breeders and sell the cages. The most I am out if it fails is $1400 plus the cost of feed. But I will have a freezer full of meat.

I do not see where the risk is here? Do you people run businesses or do you just breed rabbits as a hobby? There is a difference. Not to seem harsh, but rabbit farming is not rocket science. I am sure I will make mistakes. I am not going into this with rose coloured glasses on. I have not even bought a rabbit yet as am doing my research, unlike most people, and with the internet and youtube, it is very easy to do research.

I have hand fed puppies from birth with a bottle. I have assisted in c-sections at my vet. I spent 14 years of my life living on a factory pig farm. I have an animal sciences diploma. I farm poultry. Breed dogs. I think that I am probably qualified to raise 30 rabbits.

Like I said, I do not want to offend anyone, but....

 

[Schipperkesue]

Brian, you have asked for advice and are getting it! In your first post you say, "Can you let me know your thoughts?" And that is what you are hearing! If you have already made up your mind that this will either be profitable or you will end up with a small loss at the very worst, then you don't need to ask.

The people who have replied have done so with their honest opinions and experiences. They have taken their time to share what they know. It seems that perhaps you only want to hear positive responses. If that is the case, what is the point of asking?

Personally, I have learned much from this thread. Even though I have no plans to get into large scale production I have read and thought about each response and how it may apply to my operation.

 

[BrianRme]

I did ask for advice. Yes that is true. My only issue is that for some reason a few people think that raising rabbits is so hard that if you start out with more than 2 or 3 you are crazy and the sky will fall.

Advice is not; You will not make money. You will never be successful. Only start with 3 rabbits. A few people had a lot of good advice and I appreciate it. Unfortunately, like a lot of message boards. Everyone is an expert and everyone has to comment even if it does not contribute.

I thank those that posted meaningful advice. I will heed that advice and when I think I am ready to actually start up I will take that advice into consideration in my decisions. When starting any business there are risks. If I was looking to do this as a hobby like most of you I would by 3 rabbits to start. I am however getting into rabbits as a business venture and starting with 3 rabbits is not a business. Even with 30 rabbits it is not a business.

 

[MaggieJ]

Brian, I am also from Ontario and know the Toronto to Muskoka corridor well. I agree with you that the market is there, but I also think that you have received thoughtful advice from our members. You have an excellent background to undertake a commercial rabbit venture, but I do wonder if you are seeing it only as a source of income. Rabbits are different than other livestock. Chickens are a breeze by comparison. If you can afford to take a loss, there is no reason not to proceed, but I do think getting a trio in the meantime, just to reacquaint yourself with rabbit care, would be a good idea.

I have to say, I don't much care for your attitude about advice. No one claimed to be "an expert" and no one said you would fail. People gave advice from their own experiences, which is all anyone can do. If you don't want to hear it, it is better not to ask.

 

[TwoAcreDream]

The investment for 30 good production NZ meat rabbit is $450 - $600 tops. Cages $80 for 3 holes, including waterer and feeder. So that would be $800. Total Capital Investment of $1,400. That is not a lot of money to start a business. Then I buy food and wait. If something wrong happens I go go on the internet and figure out what it is and fix it. If it fails, I eat the breeders and sell the cages. The most I am out if it fails is $1400 plus the cost of feed. But I will have a freezer full of meat.

You are looking to buy 30 does at a price of $ 15 to $ 20 each ?
What age would these does be ? Around here does ready to breed
are like $ 30 each. I am selling 2 pure Californian bucks this week who
are only 3 months old for $ 25 each. I have a sister to them who I would
not take $ 30 for, as I will be putting her into production myself sometime
this summer. These are out of a litter of 8 from a first time mom.

Cages $80 per 3 holes. Total $ 800. So 800 divide by 80, tells me
you will have 30 holes. Correct ? That will be for your breeding does.

You will also need and my guess would be 1 buck per 10 does.
So add 3 more holes to your 800 number.

Then you will need grow out cages. Not sure of the numbers here,
but it will depend on how fast the babies grow, etc. Maybe grumpy
can suggest a number here, as he is a commericial rabbitry.
So you don't have these numbers in with your $ 800 figure.
I am guessing you will have hanging units. So you won't need
plastic drop pans.

It is good to live on a main road and already have established
customers. That is always a big plus.

You have gotten a lot of good advice here. Be thankfull that people
are taking the time to type you a response.

And please come back and share your journey, the good and the bad.

 

[Dood]

I wasn't going to reply as everyone else had covered most of the basic but I think you are treating this advice as the mumblings of "Hobbyists"

I too have farm experience and a degree in Animal Science and the added advantage of experience from breeding rabbits in my youth, regardless of all this knowledge, when I started breeding meat rabbits 3 years ago things didn't go 'by the book'.

Not to seem harsh, but rabbit farming is not rocket science.

Nor is it like any other type of livestock breeding.

Rabbit production genetics is the least advanced of any livestock species. Even high quality and closely related stock can have duds as there are many factors that can affect rabbits fertilty. For example I started out with 3 does - only 1 has good production qualities her half sister (and cousin several times over) is a dud, the other from a completely different bloodline is worse - this is how fickle rabbits can be.

If I had started out with 30, that might mean 20 does costing money and only good for the soup pot.

Hybrid vigor doesn't always "gel well" between bloodlines, for example my NZxFlemish buck crossed to my does are superior to my Cali crosses but others have had the opposite experience. Because of the lack of inbreeding in rabbits you get far more variable results and figuring this out is mostly trial and error.

Was your hog farm "farrow to finish"? This is what all rabbit operations are - you have to factor in buck, resting doe, production doe, kits and replacement doe care and all have different nutritional needs. Unlike weaned piglets or a barn full of chicks you cannot free feed everyone, and you must put aside time for supervised breedings (leaving a buck and a doe togeather is a good way to get a neutered buck) so there is a greater time commitment required. My small herd of 8 does takes at least 10 hours a week, times that by 4 and you're looking at a full time job.

Compared to other species rabbits are more sensitive to environmental factors such as temperature and light which can negatively effect fertilty. Your plan to use green houses as rabbitries might not be climate controlled enough to maximize production.

Regardless of bio security protocols disease outbreaks happen because unlike hogs or cattle or poultry, rabbits are common pets so friends and family might unknowingly pass along pathogens to you or you could pick them up at a their homes, at a pet store or just by touching a door at the library. Unfortunately diseases like E. cuniculi, coccidia and the many variants of pasturella are common in pet rabbits and often go undiagnosed and/or untreated since medical care for rabbits is cost prohibitive.

Of course you can do as you please and i hope you are successful and everything runs smoothly but you asked for our opinions, please don't brush off the advice of small scale rabbitries as the large scale ones can experience their problems tenfold.

 

[BrianRme]

Exactly.

 

[michaels4gardens]

If it were me-- I would try to find a very good commercial rabbit breeder, [or breeders] and buy from them -as focus on prodctivity and growth rate is assured.

 

[grumpy]

Okay............ :canofworms: I've got some questions.

I'm assuming there is only "one" person on this site with your handle.
If that's the case, then..........what is this? meat-rabbit-housing-density-t20478.html

This is basic "Rabbitry-101". I was under the assumption that you were
well-schooled and knowledgeable about the basics of Rabbit Husbandry.
By the above thread, I am apparently mistaken.

You are correct: It's not Rocket-Science. That's true, but from where you
are standing and where you want to end up...it's a very, very, long road.
Regardless of degrees, this avocation has a very unforgiving learning curve.

It "appears" to be simple...."Heck! They're rabbits .. ain't they?"
My standard reply is: "Well, yes..........and no." They're not nearly as simple
as people believe them to be. Most often, sound advice is not taken to heart.

That's okay... God bless... Good luck...

Grumpy.

 

[Ramjet]

.




You are correct: It's not Rocket-Science. That's true, but from where you
are standing and where you want to end up...it's a very, very, long road.
Regardless of degrees, this avocation has a very unforgiving learning curve.

The learning curve is very steep .... one mishandled situation you can wipe out an entire herd.

It all seems so easy , and with a little experience , it really is which is why I agreed with the poster above who said to get a trio for the time being and get some hands on experience.
I do quite a few things different today than I did when I first started out ... Cages , breeding , feeding , all have been modified from the initial foray into keeping rabbits because of hands on experience.

I lost most of my first litter (10 of 12) because I gave the doe a nest box that was too big. Something so trivial had a huge effect upon the outcome and profit potential.


Yeah , they reproduce like rabbits , if you can get them to breed. Just take a look at the scrolling sidebar of thread titles on the home page and you see its not all that simple. Reminds me of the old saying "the bigger they are , the harder they fall" ..... That is , if you can knock that big SOB down.

 

[ottersatin]

After reading this entire thread,
I am soo glad that I did not put my two cents on the table.
I feel blessed that I kept my fingers from the keyboard.
I have in the past spoken to many who were sent to ask me a few questions
as I was the county Rabbit adviser for a time. Whenever I tried to explain that
Rabbits were just not as simple as they appeared, I got the same response as
all the posters received. No one realizes how FAST any rabbit disease can run through
and destroy an entire Herd, almost at the blink of an eye!
Tis better to start slowly and become highly acquainted with ALL aspects of the
Hobby/ Business rather than start like a ball of fire, only to be suddenly
snuffed out and lose all of your work/animals in one swift blow.
The loss of three or four, give or take a few more is easily taken
when one can bounce right back and start over anew after having leaned
with just a Punch, rather than a KNOCKOUT. I have seen more than a few
get discouraged and QUIT when the LIGHT was just around the corner.
Slow and steady wins the race! As always, JMPO.
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

 

[cmfarm]

I am a lot like you. I like to jump into things full force (and hate when my husband talks reason into me and ruins my plans). But as others have said, yes it isn't rocket science, but it is rabbit science. I have raised rabbits off and on over the years (lots of heat issues due to living in Texas) and I have always enjoyed them. I too want to make a business out of them, although a much smaller one. I am a stay at home mom and we live on one income, so profit I make is really just extra. Right now I have about 7 mature does and some youngsters growing out. I have not had any litters make it to maturity yet (started this venture in Sept.). There have been a few litters born, but lost due to cold. And then we had an issue with one of the bucks (which seems to have resolved itself) and all that was bred didn't take. And then you get rabbits that just don't want to breed. It can get frustrating. There is a learning curve, and I am still on it. But I do enjoy them (if I was just doing this for profit I would have given up already). Remember this, they do eat a lot when you have a lot, so if you are not successful from the get go with that many rabbits (the 30 you where talking about) you will be spending a lot of money on feed.

 

[Schipperkesue]

It all seems so easy , and with a little experience , it really is which is why I agreed with the poster above who said to get a trio for the time being and get some hands on experience.

Like Ramjet, I too stand by my initial suggestion to start small and work your way up. You have made much mention of education and experience in raising different species of animals. The more species I raise, the more I realize how much I DON'T know! and much of what I learn is not found in books, or by talking to professionals, or online, or in forums. It is experience! If you start small you will not only learn about the things you have asked on this site like size of cages, how many does to a cage, growing out kits together, etc, but also the subtle nuances of rabbit behavior and how rabbits will do in your particular location, both geographical and housing/shelter. Rabbits are peculiar animals. Tiny differences between rabbitries, that may go unnoticed, may make or break you.

Who knows, you may start up a large operation and discover your life's calling, experience few issues and make a nice little income for yourself! Hurray! But if you do have that large operation and things start to go sideways, you may also find yourself with a huge moneysucking headache.

 

[grumpy]

Did a quick numbers crunch yesterday for my 2013 taxes.

With my small 42 working doe herd, I averaged feeding one 50# bag of
feed per day for the entire year. And, I kept production limited to make
sure of the demand. As the year progressed, so did my production. At the
present time, I'm feeding an average of 75# per day. Multiply the above
numbers by 15 and you'll be in the ball-park of daily feed consumption for
a 600 doe herd. At $14.30 per bag it's about $214.50 feed costs per day.

For 600 does, the workload is unimaginable even with every automatic
convenience you can employ. A 400 doe herd is a full-time job for one person.
I know, without question, I couldn't do that. But, I'm old and about worn out.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

In reading this thread, I have noticed a few things have been missed.

1. Nest boxes. Consider that each litter will use a box for 2-3 weeks. The duration will be longer in the cold months, with kits tending to huddle in the nest until 3 weeks or more if you let them.

2. Bedding for those boxes. People use different materials, but you will need one or two of the following: hay or straw, pine shavings, shredded paper. I personally bed the boxes with a layer of shavings, and then add hay and shredded paper. Once the does kindle, I put a handful of pine pellets in the nest hollow to absorb urine.

3. You spoke of an automatic water system. If you live where it freezes you will need to heat the tank of water. If your temps get really cold the valves themselves will freeze, so the building will have to be heated. Crocks refilled twice daily are an option, but not with the numbers you hope to eventually have.

4. Manure management. What goes in must come out. Rabbits produce a LOT of manure. Do you have somewhere to store it, use it, sell it?

5. You plan to buy rabbits at $15 to $20 a head. I wouldn't sell a cull rabbit for that amount, I would much rather eat it myself. If you are going to have any hope of quality production animals, you should plan on around $50 a head.

6. Adult, ready to breed animals will necessarily cost more to purchase than weanlings. If you are set on starting with 30 does, it might be a good idea to buy 10 ready to breed animals (or nearly so- they should be quarantined for at least 30 days before breeding, as the stress of the move combined with pregnancy may cause any latent illnesses to manifest), and the balance in younger animals.

"Proven" does are not the stellar option that they seem, as a breeder is not going to sell you their best proven animals, they are going to retain those for their own program. Additionally, once out of the barn it was raised in it may never produce as well as it did there.

7. Lighting. If you hope to keep production up in the winter, you will have to provide additional lighting to simulate spring and summer day length. I believe 14-16 hours is recommended.

8. Cleaning supplies. I would highly recommend a pressure washer and possibly a propane torch. I thoroughly sanitize my cages at least twice a year. In a commercial operation, you would be wise to sanitize each cage between litters.

9. Fans to provide airflow. Ammonia fumes are a killer (literally!) in a rabbitry, as is heat. You will want to keep the air moving.

10. Pests and predators. Can you secure the greenhouses in such a way as to exclude large and small animals? Rats in sufficient numbers can do as much or more damage to your stock as the larger animals such as raccoons and others.

 

[Jessykah]

I was just about to mention a lot of the points that MamaSheepdog brought up.
I live in Ontario as well. Using greenhouses can be great, but have their drawbacks. As mentioned, you will need large commercial fans for that big of an operation. So factor that cost in your budget. You will also have to heat the greenhouses. As you can see from this past winter, the temps here can get crazy. So with fans and heating and lights on a timer, that is A LOT of hydro cost to factor, and our hydro here is crazy expensive.
You need to figure out how you are going to keep those cages clean, so bleach or some other disinfectant will be in the budget. You need a good torch and/or toilet brushes for cleaning fur off cages.
Cages may often need replacing/mending. So keep spare cage wire on hand of various sizes, bought in bulk. This is better than paying a ridiculous amount for a small quantity at the last minute when you have a problem.
I don't believe quarantine cages have been mentioned. Not only will you need several of these when you have a sick rabbit or are suspicious of sickness, but when you buy replacement rabbits or want to bring in new blood, they need to be quarantined for 30-60 days. These rabbits in quarantine also are not making you money while they sit there, so that feed has to be factored in as well....You will need a separate location for these quarantine cages, and may want to wear separate footwear and have separate feed/cleaning equipment and feed area for them as well so you don't cross-contaminate.
Do you have proper ventilated hay/straw/feed storage? Have you sourced out more than one hay/straw supplier?
How will you clean under the cages? Shovel and wheel barrow, for that many rabbits is a HUGE time investment, and is very hard on the back.

I do not wish to discourage you. I figure you want every detail that you can figured out before going into this, which is why you are researching so much before getting the rabbits. I commend you for that. A lot of people make the mistake of not researching anything before they get into rabbits and they set themselves up for failure. I know I did.
You know you will make many mistakes, as we all probably have, but I hope you keep coming back here to get help/advice with your venture, and update us all, as we would love to be informed and be here for you in your journey.
Also, remember to be honest with yourself and your goals and expectations. Don't expect more from your mind and body than it can handle.

 

[MaggieJ]

One other issue that I cannot remember seeing mentioned in this topic is the issue of butchering costs and regulations. Selling live to a processor eliminates this, but it means you get a low price for your meat. Meat sold to the ethnic market and the restaurant trade brings a much higher price, but it does mean that the meat must be processed in a licenced facility... and that isn't dirt cheap. Even farmgate sales of meat need to meet these requirements, although some people get around this by selling the live rabbit and offering butchering as a free service. Just one more thing for you to research, Brian, before you dive in.

 

[Randy]

Not to seem harsh, but rabbit farming is not rocket science.

Of course it's not rocket science, rocket science is child's play in comparison to farming. Having entered the rabbit business I can say whats happening in Ontario. Larger does not mean more efficant either. At wanting a goal size rabbity of 600 holes, wich seems greedy, you're going to contribute to flooding the market. Given that you have grown up around the hog industry the free market is something you should already know about. Also isn't poultry quota enouph as it is without taking on an addional more than a full time job?

 

[Zass]

Hey, no one should be antagonizing anyone.
No one can really afford to flood the market with cheap rabbits. The cost of feed is prohibitive.

The truth is that 30 rabbits is a modest amount. It's only 3 litters worth of grown up fryers.

I suppose the real reason everyone is giving warnings about rabbits is because they really are very different from every other type of livestock.
The main difference being that the young are born blind and helpless in a nest that must be constructed by the mother.
In other words, the rabbit raiser is a lot more dependent on the BEHAVIORAL performance of the doe than any other type of farmer. You can bottle feed puppies, pigs, sheep, goats, calves, etc. Chicks can eat solid food from the start. The survival rate of baby rabbits is mostly out of your control.

This is coincidentally why having a herd of 5 rabbits and having a herd of 500 isn't very different. They are generally kept and managed the same.
Everything is setup for the doe and all we can do is hope like hell she preforms her job correctly.

A herd of 500 will have all the same exact problems, and lots of new ones. (like air quality, pest and disease)

The "hobbiests" will take more time figuring out and trying to solve each and every issue, where the commercial raiser must instead setup as close to ideal conditions as possible right from the start and the cull anything that isn't preforming up to expectations.

Speaking of disease. I lost my entire herd one year to pasteurellosis. It spread to almost everyone before I was able to diagnose the symptoms. (a matter of days) There is no cure. I had to cull everyone.

Culling is the main for of veterinary care that you will be providing.

Which is convenient and easy.
It's only that growing does to breeding age is expensive, and every time you have to cull a doe you are costing yourself several months worth of feed.

 

[michaels4gardens]

Hey, no one should be antagonizing anyone.
No one can really afford to flood the market with cheap rabbits. The cost of feed is prohibitive.

The truth is that 30 rabbits is a modest amount. It's only 3 litters worth of grown up fryers.

I suppose the real reason everyone is giving warnings about rabbits is because they really are very different from every other type of livestock.
The main difference being that the young are born blind and helpless in a nest that must be constructed by the mother.
In other words, the rabbit raiser is a lot more dependent on the BEHAVIORAL performance of the doe than any other type of farmer. You can bottle feed puppies, pigs, sheep, goats, calves, etc. Chicks can eat solid food from the start. The survival rate of baby rabbits is mostly out of your control.
L
This is coincidentally why having a herd of 5 rabbits and having a herd of 500 isn't very different. They are generally kept and managed the same.
Everything is setup for the doe and all we can do is hope like hell she preforms her job correctly.

A herd of 500 will have all the same exact problems, and lots of new ones. (like air quality, pest and disease)

The "hobbiests" will take more time figuring out and trying to solve each and every issue, where the commercial raiser must instead setup as close to ideal conditions as possible right from the start and the cull anything that isn't preforming up to expectations.

That was perfect ---thank you
I have had almost 150 does in production, and worked at a place that had 450, -and- it is all about the same-- just a lot more of it-- but in some ways it was easier when it was a full time job, as you have a set schedule, all the time.