Plucking vs Shearing ...and questions on fibre

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cindys6436

cindys6436

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Orangevale, CA
Ann - I'd like to pluck my bunnies but they are "non-pluckable" types - at least that's what the breeder of two of them told me. I don't show so I don't worry about over-grooming, and I do get a lot of wool just from grooming. I'm hoping my new baby will be pluckable.

I have done a little bit of needle felting and would like to do more, so I can probably use the really "bad" stuff for that.

Maggie - felted Angora slippers sound REALLY good right about now, since I'm sitting in front of my computer shivering!

Cindy
 
hey Cindy - I am torn by the pluck/shear/ scissor thing too - I live with a satin angora an English angora and jw - have had a french angora too - I haven't plucked ONe hair from the EA - everybody else that is how I harvest the fibre I do

are your angoras english?
where is your new baby coming from? If he's English he probably won't slip his coat the way french and satin angoras do ..
 
One of the best things, in my mind, about the French is that they shed. So do Jersey Woolies. They will pass that trait along to crossbred offspring, too, it seems. I know there are French Angora folk who clip because the plucking does, eventually cause less wool (I believe there are a couple of studies out about that) but...

Hope to see some pictures of your rabbits sometime :) AND the yarn!!
 
while the plucking may reduce over all (and I've read the same studies I think) hand spinners much prefer plucked wool to work with ;)
 
Before I got my angoras, I thought I did a lot of research - I don't know why, since it seems I am quite wrong about this, but I thought English Angoras were the only pluckable type, and that the French and Satin required shearing. I really wanted pluckable since I thought it would be easier and I'd enjoy it more, even though my understanding is that they require more grooming and mat more than the types you shear. I've been told that the English breeders are trying to breed toward more "shearables" than "pluckables." I've also been told that the English Angoras in California (where I live) are the shearing type. I don't know about that. There seems to be one top-of-the-game breeder in California and I think her lines are the shearing type.

All four of my rabbits are English Angoras. I got my first two bucks from a breeder nearby - one is a one-year-old neutered male, Maddox, and the other is a 7-month-old unneutered buck, Chase. Both of them have high maintenance coats - too high maintenance for me; they mat horribly and I've had to shear (I use scissors) them in an attempt to start over. I just sheared Chase for the second time, before his coat had fully come in again, because the matting is so bad. I'm still working on their faces - their cheeks are so matted it's like one solid mass.

I got my 7-month-old doe, Winter, from a pet owner who bred her doe once just for the experience of doing it. Winter has a dream coat, as far as I'm concerned. Her head sometimes gets matted, but the rest of her is easy care. She rarely gets mats. I sheared her, but I'm not convinced she's not pluckable. I got my other doe, Holly Berry, at the beginning of December when she was six weeks old. She came from a breeder in Oregon. I talked to the breeder of Holly's dam, and she said Holly would probably be pluckable but she probably wouldn't be ready until she was a year old. I'll just have to see how it goes with her. She is already tending to get a bit matted but not too bad - nothing like the boys, at least so far.

I am just learning (slowly) to spin so I haven't had the opportunity to see how the wool from my different rabbits will compare. I did try spinning some wool that the breeder sheared from Maddox, but until my spinning skills improve it all feels like fumbling around to me.

I had thought about breeding but have decided not to. I'm not sure if the matting problem with Chase is me or him, but I don't want to pass that kind of maintenance requirement along. I'm also hoping to be able to let all four rabbits be out at the same time - or at least two at a time - in the room. At this point, they get out-of-cage time in three - or four-hour shifts. So Chase and Winter will be getting neutered/spayed after their initial exam this coming Friday.

I've been interrupted several times while writing this post and I'm losing focus - sorry if it's just coming across as rambling! I think I was answering what kind of rabbits I have to begin with : )

I used to have Jersey Woolies but right after I got them, I went into kidney failure and wasn't able to care for them so I had to re-home them. That was over ten years ago. So Jersey Woolies shed wool that you can spin? And they have pluckable wool?

I have heard that spinners prefer plucked wool over sheared, but it seems that there is a market for the sheared wool as well. For now, I'm just trying to get anything spinnable!

Cindy
 
Anything spinnable is a good goal :)
I feel badly for you ending up with 4 EA that don't seem to be quite what you want - have you dried a blower to keep them mat free?
how are you keeping them? they either need a wire cage bottom or a LOT of room to move aorund to help stop mats
one of the things that always worries me is waiting long enough to pluck the coat means the rabbit can really block if they are doing a lot of grooming - just something to be aware of

some jw seem to better designed for plucking and spinning than others - I have only had Jw about 7 months and so far none are slipping thier coats - I'm optimistic that a couple will have nice useable coats though :) Ann has certainly harvested Trufflebee's coat so hopefully she'll give us more info on that soon
 
Thanks Brody - I don't THINK it's the way I'm keeping them that causes the matting - three of them are n the exact same type of cage - wire bottom. The other cage is also a wire bottom, but a different brand and a little bigger. When they are out of the cage, they don't have a whole lot of room - they are in a spare bedroom that has the four cages around the edges, and then a narrow strip they don't have access to where I keep the feed, grooming table, etc. I really think it's the type of wool more than anything because I have no problems with Winter. Chase is just the worse, although he's a gorgeous rabbit when I haven't been chopping away at his wool (which seems to be most of the time, with the matting problem). I haven't had any problems with wool block so far. They get papaya tablets - don't know how much they help, but I figure they won't hurt.

When I had JWs so many years ago, I didn't know a thing about spinning. I don't remember getting the for fiber or even knowing anything about fiber rabbits; I just thought they were cool rabbits :) I haven't been able to find much info on JW being kept for wool - maybe because angoras steal the limelight when it comes to fiber rabbits.

Cindy
 
Well, let's see what I can share here. One note..I'm only 7 months into this, so other than talking about m y own rabbits, it's all word of mouth from either my breeder, or others I've talked to about rabbits. (and I do a LOT of online research)

The angoras will all (except the German) shed eventually. Many of the breeders of the French angora have bred for a 3month shed (which is what happens in France..although the commercial breeders there use a depilatory to get them to shed all at once). The English tend to hold their wool longer (probably because of the lack of guard hairs?) English will grow lovely long luscious hair...but you need to groom them more often the longer you let it grow. Many breeders just shear them every X number of months. Biggest problem seems to be shearing AFTER they've started shedding..you end up cutting off the new growth along wtih the old.

Many of the English breeders I've talked to use a blower to groom, instead of brushing. It's done at least 2 times a week, and completely detangles (also blows out any dander). In a pinch, you can use a hair dryer (no heat...just fan). Others us a comb and slicker brush instead of blowers. The English require a LOT of grooming compared to the French and Jersey Woolies (JW are decendents of the French Angora)

Jersy Woolies shed. Trufflebee goes about 3.5 months. He's easy to pluck. I just put him on my lap and start pulling the stuff that sticks out. Not the guard hairs...but the fluffy stuff. When I'm done, he looks skinny and pathetic :D I do groom him, but not very often. Feet and tummy area are most liable to matt. (and behind the ears if they start scratching)

My girls are French/english crosses bred specifically (over the years) for fiber, to not mat, and to shed every 3 months (moult). There are two ways to tell if they're ready to pluck. 1) the cage wire starts to get covered with wool; or 2)when you groom them, the brush is full every time you comb through.

now me...I groom my girls once a week, not because they get matted, but because if I don't, they get REALLY wild and forget the "me master, you bunny" thing. and "being upside down is FUN!!!" goes RIGHT out of their little brains.

JW wool is generally a little coarser than the Angoras, but not by much. It spins up nicely...you just don't get as much per plucking.
 
okay so a friend of mine is looking into jersey woolies. he's been told they need no work, that they just need to be brushed out before a show. Do you find that to be true?

When I hear things like they need to be plucked, that makes me think without some attention they will mat up.
 
Ann,
Thanks for the info. Maybe I should have got a couple JWs and a couple Angoras instead of four Angoras! Actually, if they were all like Winter, I'd be happy with four Angoras, but their cages do take up a lot of room since they are bigger than the JWs. Ah, hindsight. I do love all the bunnies and I'm the type who falls in love with my pets, or I'd probably re-home the boys.

I have tried blowing them with a no-heat hair dryer. They don't like it and I don't find it works well. The actual blowers meant for rabbits are so expensive, but I suppose I should start saving for one. I'll have to recover from the big bucks spent on spaying and neutering Winter and Chase first.

My boys shed more at times and less at times, but very occasionally will a few big tufts come out, usually from the back end. Just wish I was better at shearing. And as for turning them upside down - Winter and Holly don't mind at all; the boys are another story. It's like I'm attempting to murder them every time. I finally got Chase to relax when I used a towel- in fact, I think he fell asleep. His bottom side was a mess, especially his feet, and we were finally able to get everything cut down when I used the towel. At least Chase likes to be pet. Maddox acts like I'm the meanest predator known to rabbits all the time, even though I pet him daily and groom him a couple times a week.

I really hope to get the problem with Chase matting under control, because if I can do that I think he could turn out some beautiful yarn.

Cindy
 
My JW have been a delight they don't seem to mat the way the other angora types do and I haven't had to pluck mine ..I comb or brush them weekly and sometimes find a tiny tangle that slips out easily ...
 
I just realized today that Joy (a jw) is going to shed out enough fibre with enough quality I will be able to set hers aside to spin (I'm a neophtye spinner)
I'm hoping Daisy will too .. as they are the two rabbits I am hoping to keep
 
try carding it with some wool your first time out spinning it. the stuff has NO crimp and VERY little memory...sigh

if you try it alone, overspin it or you'll end up with it unwinding later. RabbitGeek said to do a short draw with it...so that it doesn't separate.
 
what language are you speaking??? :D

crimp I get
memory? - does wool get dementia? what the heck does it need to memorize?
overspin it? unwind? short draw? you NUTZ?? or just speaking Spin? :)
 
:lol:
memory...that's what keeps wool shaped around itself. It stays put after you steam it a little, or it stays twisted a while...it's why it doesn't unravel.

overspin: when you spin sheep's wool, you don't want it spun so tightly that it twists around into loops...it should look like it does in a skein...just one long twisted piece. with angora, you want it spun tightly...so that it will hook onto itself and will hold onto itself when you relax it off the spool/spindle.

when spinning anything, you keep it on the spindle or spool for at least a day so that it 'remembers' the twist.

short draw is how you place your hands when you spin....if you can have a LONG bunch of unspun fiber between your hand and the spindle or wheel, that's called a "long draw". if Your hand is real close...if you only spin in a couple of inches before you get more from the rolag or roving, you are doing a short draw.
 
Oh yah and you think that's english now????

:shock:

HAHAHA - just kidding that's very helpful - thanks!!
 
Ha ha, Brody, I don't quite get that all either - I'm a neophyte spinner too. I only plan on spinning with a drop spindle, and I've already spun some Angora but not taken it off the spindle so who knows if it will turn into usable yarn.

Cindy
 
sounds like we may need Ann - as much as it pains me to aadmit that ;)

You are brave using a drop spindle :)
 
I find drop spindles much less intimidating than wheels! Not that I'm much good at the drop spindle, but I'm not giving up. Not with four Angoras! I took a private lesson and didn't really learn anything that I hadn't already learned from a book (guess I was hoping the instructor would be a miracle worker, ha ha!) but I did learn that once you have spun the fiber you are not done, you then have to soak, thwack, etc. I'll get the hang of it all one of these days ...

Cindy<br /><br />__________ Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:56 pm __________<br /><br />Don't know where else to put this, but since I was posting here about my little herd - found out today that my sweet little doe Winter is a BUCK! He has quite a pair, and it was embarrassing that we didn't know he was a boy, but we aren't experienced with rabbit "parts" and apparently Chase keeps his more hidden - so we just thought Winter just really wanted to breed. I guess we were right - except he wanted to be the giver rather than the receiver! I think he's just much more relaxed around us, whereas Chase was never relaxed enough to really drop down. I don't really know, but they're both getting neutered on Monday! Chase will be getting all his mats clipped off as well, so hopefully I can keep on top of the matting problem, but it really seems as if I'm just going to have a constant battle with his wool matting up.

Cindy
 

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