Picking a Breed and Seller for Starting Out (Pics)

[ihatedarkroast]

Hi. I'm sure you get this question a lot. But just looking for some feedback here on picking a breed for meat and possibly pelts.
I live in an area where I can get rabbits off Craigslist fairly easily as NZ, Flemish Giants, Standard Rex from some breeders. Rural King also typically carries lops and mini rexes, occasionally standard sized bunnies and rarely satins. But there are two sellers I'm particularly interested in.

One seller is 30 minutes north of me and they are selling a lot of English Spot cheap. They also have lionheads (which I don't particularly want to groom.) They really really want to get rid of some of their larger sized Spots and spot/lionhead crosses for $10. I think, because around here it's mostly the minis that sell well as pets. And they don't look like they have the right marking for show...not that I'm thinking of showing right now. But I do have a 4 year old who might be interested down the road. Right now to learn on, I'm not as worried about fancy rabbits.

Are English Spots decent rabbits for a family starting out with meaties? Are they kinda chill and easy? And would they be ok in outdoor hutches/rabbit tractors in winter weather like this if I provided plenty of orchard hay and put a kennel cover on cages? Here where I live it can get down to 5 F in winter (rarely) and 96 in summer (frequently).

The other seller is about an hour to the south in North Carolina. They are selling a variety of breeds including English Spot, Silver Fox, Chinchilla, NZ, Tenn. Red, and I think I spot a Californian in the pics.

This breeder lists a general price of $20 for the rabbits. But I have a feeling the nicer once may be a bit more expensive than that. I'm curious about the Silver Fox and if they require special coat maintenance.

We had a chinchilla buck last year we got for free that we kept for a couple months then ate as an experiment. He liked me, but he was sort of a jerk to everyone else in the family. He was not very tame as the lady who gave him to us didn't handle her rabbits much so she wouldn't get emotionally attached. But how soft! We salt dried the pelt. I have no experience tanning. But my husband is keen to try out more tanning and to eat more rabbits. He is sort of leaning towards more chinchilla rabbits. But he also would like rabbits that are more willing to be handled and let you clean their cage without biting. And might tolerate the kids better.

Any thoughts on which direction I should go in from here?

 

[Cosima]

The Silver fox doesn’t have to be brushed and I have heard that they are a great fur and meat breed. I would get them without a doubt because they are one of my favorite breeds. If you find standard rexes they are very good fur rabbits and good meat rabbit.

 

[ihatedarkroast]

Ok. That's helpful to know.
And, the rex are being sold for $40-50 as does only by one lady about an hour away. There is one other person selling rex, but I don't know if they're mini or not. Hmmmmm.

 

[Buknee]

What I know:
Rex are fabulous for meat and fur. You stated that there are not many in your area. This might be a great option for selling to help offset you feed costs. My last litter was sold before they were ready to leave my rabbitry. I had a beautiful litter. At eight weeks or shortly after, they were all to their new hole. I already have two spoken for from my two litters due on the 15th. My experience with Rex, they are super sweet and easy to handle.

Flemish Giants are nice and gentle, but they are not good for meat as their bone to meat ratio isn't good. I raise them to sell as pets. (purebred, pedigreed, color correct)

New Zealands grow quickly and are great for meat. I have found that some of the purebreds come with an attitude. I don't do attitude in my rabbitry so no purebred NZ for me. I have some crosses though. My NZ/Chinchilla cross doe is one of my favorites. She is super sweet and produces nice litters.

I started with mixes/crosses and still have a few. I am now bringing in purebred pedigreed. Pedigreed doesn't mean much to some people, but if they plan to show or just want to know the genetics of the ancestors for colors, it is a must.
It is really easy to be tempted by the cheap rabbit, but they are often cheap for a reason.
That being said, two of my favorite does (crosses) are $25 bunnies that were headed to freezer camp.

How many rabbits do you plan to start with?

 

[Buknee]

And, the rex are being sold for $40-50 as does only by one lady about an hour away.

Are they pedigreed?

 

[Buknee]

One more thought:
Some breeders are also transporters. If you are in their line of travel or close to it, they will transport your rabbit/s on their run. It might give you more options if you are able to locate some. They will transport other rabbits too, but the ones I have connected with don't charge anything extra for theirs.
I am not a FB fan, but I am part of a good rabbit group in my state and a few surrounding states. We have several transporters in our group and they have beautiful rabbits. I just recently brought in a purebred pedigreed Flemish Giant from almost 8 hours away. I only had to drive a little over an hour to pick him up.

 

[Alaska Satin]

Hi. I'm sure you get this question a lot. But just looking for some feedback here on picking a breed for meat and possibly pelts.
I live in an area where I can get rabbits off Craigslist fairly easily as NZ, Flemish Giants, Standard Rex from some breeders. Rural King also typically carries lops and mini rexes, occasionally standard sized bunnies and rarely satins. But there are two sellers I'm particularly interested in.

One seller is 30 minutes north of me and they are selling a lot of English Spot cheap. They also have lionheads (which I don't particularly want to groom.) They really really want to get rid of some of their larger sized Spots and spot/lionhead crosses for $10. I think, because around here it's mostly the minis that sell well as pets. And they don't look like they have the right marking for show...not that I'm thinking of showing right now. But I do have a 4 year old who might be interested down the road. Right now to learn on, I'm not as worried about fancy rabbits.

Are English Spots decent rabbits for a family starting out with meaties? Are they kinda chill and easy? And would they be ok in outdoor hutches/rabbit tractors in winter weather like this if I provided plenty of orchard hay and put a kennel cover on cages? Here where I live it can get down to 5 F in winter (rarely) and 96 in summer (frequently).

I would not recommend English Spots either as a starter or as a meat breed. They are what is called a running breed, meaning they are slim and very active. There are a lot of differences in individual rabbits, of course, but the English Spots I've known have been fairly high-strung. And while there is meat on any rabbit, the breed has not been selected for meat qualities at all.

That said, the none of rabbits in your photo really look like English Spots to me. I see that some of them have the lionhead mane so they're probably the crossbreeds you mentioned. They have rather narrow and hollow loins, which are not optimum meat indicators. In any case, neither of those breeds are particularly suited to meat production (though the lionheads usually have nice temperaments for kids).

Here is an image of a purebred English Spot from the ARBA (American Rabbit Breeders Association) website Recognized Breeds


For comparison, here is a Satin, a breed which was developed specifically as a meat and fur producer; you can probably imagine the difference in meat quality:

The other seller is about an hour to the south in North Carolina. They are selling a variety of breeds including English Spot, Silver Fox, Chinchilla, NZ, Tenn. Red, and I think I spot a Californian in the pics.

This breeder lists a general price of $20 for the rabbits. But I have a feeling the nicer once may be a bit more expensive than that. I'm curious about the Silver Fox and if they require special coat maintenance.

Those photos also look like crossbred rabbits to me rather than purebred Chinchillas, Californians or Silver Fox. A lot of breeders call their rabbits a particular breed, but the rabbits really aren't good examples of the breed. It is usually worth it to get stock from someone who raises pedigreed rabbits; you don't necessarily need to pay for pedigrees, but at least you'll know what you're getting. Like @Buknee said, cheap rabbits are often cheap for a reason.

Not to say that crossbreeds can't be good meat rabbits - certain crosses are outstanding. But if a breeder isn't prioritizing meat qualities, you quickly lose the best of those features. You are probably better off getting purebred stock from a breeder who does prioritize those qualities.

The meat breeds have been selected over a very long time to maximize growth rates, good meat-to-bone ratio, feed conversion efficiency, and good mothering skills. NZ, Californian, Satin, Rex, Champagne d'Argent and Silver Fox breeders, even if they breed primarily for show, will usually do so - in those breeds, a good show rabbit is a good meat rabbit. Incidentally, none of them have any particular coat maintenance issues, although Rex can sometimes tend to sore hocks when they're kept on wire.

The difference in dress-out between quality purebred meat rabbits versus random crossbreeds can be astounding. Why put in the time, effort and expense of raising poor quality rabbits for a little meat when you can put in roughly the same effort and expense for a much better amount and quality of meat? Your original output for quality rabbits will be more, but over time that is quickly made up for in feed efficiency and meat production. My purebred Satins eat about a cup of pellets a day, while the Satin/Flemish crosses I experimented with years ago ate twice that, and ended up dressing out to less meat (they were so big-boned!).

You don't have to pay a premium to buy the best of a breeder's stock as meat rabbits, though; when you're just starting you don't necessarily want to spend a ton just to lose it on the learning curve. But many breeders have rabbits that are not show quality (due to color, marking, or other "cosmetic" issues) but still have fine meat production potential. I sell most of my not-show-quality Satins as meat breeding stock. The advantage to buying "color culls" is that you can get purebred rabbits for less, but they can still produce possible show prospects down the line. In addition, if you decide in the future you want to up your game, say to help your child get into showing, if you buy from a good breeder you can often go back to them and they can help you add what you need to your breeding program.

One caveat is that because the focus has been so firmly on meat and fur quality, the big meat breeds (NZ, Cal and Satin) have poor reputations when it comes to temperament. There are well-tempered animals in those breeds - my Satins are puppy dogs - but you need to find a breeder who cares about that and includes temperament in his/her breeding decisions. On the other hand, the second-tier meat breeds like Silver Fox, Rex, Champagne d'Argent, Creme d'Argent, American Chinchilla, are more often being raised by smaller operations and do not seem to suffer nearly so much from the temperament issues. Of course every animal and every genetic line within a breed is different, but I can vouch for the sweetness of the Champagnes. Rex are darlings too but tend to have a lot more energy, so to speak. Whichever breed you end up choosing, I'd recommend telling the breeder that temperament matters to you, and they can hopefully guide you to the more docile individuals.

Rex, Silver Fox and Satins each have a unique coat type that can be a real plus if you're interested in using the pelts. There does seem to be an current uptick in interest in Rex and Silver Fox, so those would be good choices if you have potential bunny sales in mind. On the other hand, high-quality NZ, Cals and Satins always command good prices; a friend and ARBA judge who raises nationally-recognized Californians gets a minimum of $150 for one of his rabbits.

Whatever you decide in terms of breed, I strongly suggest you develop a relationship with one or more breeders of that breed. In fact you may end up choosing a breed based on the breeders you get to know! In my experience, rabbit raisers tend to be a very supportive, helpful bunch, and you can learn so much from them without doing it the hard way.

 

[ihatedarkroast]

What I know:
Rex are fabulous for meat and fur. You stated that there are not many in your area. This might be a great option for selling to help offset you feed costs. My last litter was sold before they were ready to leave my rabbitry. I had a beautiful litter. At eight weeks or shortly after, they were all to their new hole. I already have two spoken for from my two litters due on the 15th. My experience with Rex, they are super sweet and easy to handle.

Flemish Giants are nice and gentle, but they are not good for meat as their bone to meat ratio isn't good. I raise them to sell as pets. (purebred, pedigreed, color correct)

New Zealands grow quickly and are great for meat. I have found that some of the purebreds come with an attitude. I don't do attitude in my rabbitry so no purebred NZ for me. I have some crosses though. My NZ/Chinchilla cross doe is one of my favorites. She is super sweet and produces nice litters.

I started with mixes/crosses and still have a few. I am now bringing in purebred pedigreed. Pedigreed doesn't mean much to some people, but if they plan to show or just want to know the genetics of the ancestors for colors, it is a must.
It is really easy to be tempted by the cheap rabbit, but they are often cheap for a reason.
That being said, two of my favorite does (crosses) are $25 bunnies that were headed to freezer camp.

How many rabbits do you plan to start with?

There are lots of mini rex. Very few standard rex. I haven't found any pedigreed rex at all. The seller with the $50 does says hers have not been crossed with mini rex. So I assume they are purebred. But she seems to breed for tri color spashy patterning not any other particular traits. Around here paint horses are popular, spotted pit bulls, and and spotted rabbits it seems.
That's great that you have been so successful with your rex!
I'll keep it in mind with the NZ.
I think we might start with 1 breeding pair or a trio. Out of the three, I'll probably try to keep one longer than the others so the kids have at least one they can be slightly attached to.

As for transporters, most of the rabbit sellers really won't travel. There are a couple who will though. But I'd rather see the rabbits in person at their place before making a decision. I don't want to travel too far though, as it's a total pain to pack up my 4 year old, my almost 2 year old, and cages in the SUV to go anywhere. -.- That's why an hour is really as far as I want to travel. The less chance the kids have to get hungry/tired/carsick/bored the better!

 

[ihatedarkroast]

I would not recommend English Spots either as a starter or as a meat breed. They are what is called a running breed, meaning they are slim and very active. There are a lot of differences in individual rabbits, of course, but the English Spots I've known have been fairly high-strung. And while there is meat on any rabbit, the breed has not been selected for meat qualities at all.

That said, the none of rabbits in your photo really look like English Spots to me. I see that some of them have the lionhead mane so they're probably the crossbreeds you mentioned. They have rather narrow and hollow loins, which are not optimum meat indicators. In any case, neither of those breeds are particularly suited to meat production (though the lionheads usually have nice temperaments for kids).

Here is an image of a purebred English Spot from the ARBA (American Rabbit Breeders Association) website Recognized Breeds
View attachment 33567

For comparison, here is a Satin, a breed which was developed specifically as a meat and fur producer; you can probably imagine the difference in meat quality:
View attachment 33568


Those photos also look like crossbred rabbits to me rather than purebred Chinchillas, Californians or Silver Fox. A lot of breeders call their rabbits a particular breed, but the rabbits really aren't good examples of the breed. It is usually worth it to get stock from someone who raises pedigreed rabbits; you don't necessarily need to pay for pedigrees, but at least you'll know what you're getting. Like @Buknee said, cheap rabbits are often cheap for a reason.

Not to say that crossbreeds can't be good meat rabbits - certain crosses are outstanding. But if a breeder isn't prioritizing meat qualities, you quickly lose the best of those features. You are probably better off getting purebred stock from a breeder who does prioritize those qualities.

The meat breeds have been selected over a very long time to maximize growth rates, good meat-to-bone ratio, feed conversion efficiency, and good mothering skills. NZ, Californian, Satin, Rex, Champagne d'Argent and Silver Fox breeders, even if they breed primarily for show, will usually do so - in those breeds, a good show rabbit is a good meat rabbit. Incidentally, none of them have any particular coat maintenance issues, although Rex can sometimes tend to sore hocks when they're kept on wire.

The difference in dress-out between quality purebred meat rabbits versus random crossbreeds can be astounding. Why put in the time, effort and expense of raising poor quality rabbits for a little meat when you can put in roughly the same effort and expense for a much better amount and quality of meat? Your original output for quality rabbits will be more, but over time that is quickly made up for in feed efficiency and meat production. My purebred Satins eat about a cup of pellets a day, while the Satin/Flemish crosses I experimented with years ago ate twice that, and ended up dressing out to less meat (they were so big-boned!).

You don't have to pay a premium to buy the best of a breeder's stock as meat rabbits, though; when you're just starting you don't necessarily want to spend a ton just to lose it on the learning curve. But many breeders have rabbits that are not show quality (due to color, marking, or other "cosmetic" issues) but still have fine meat production potential. I sell most of my not-show-quality Satins as meat breeding stock. The advantage to buying "color culls" is that you can get purebred rabbits for less, but they can still produce possible show prospects down the line. In addition, if you decide in the future you want to up your game, say to help your child get into showing, if you buy from a good breeder you can often go back to them and they can help you add what you need to your breeding program.

One caveat is that because the focus has been so firmly on meat and fur quality, the big meat breeds (NZ, Cal and Satin) have poor reputations when it comes to temperament. There are well-tempered animals in those breeds - my Satins are puppy dogs - but you need to find a breeder who cares about that and includes temperament in his/her breeding decisions. On the other hand, the second-tier meat breeds like Silver Fox, Rex, Champagne d'Argent, Creme d'Argent, American Chinchilla, are more often being raised by smaller operations and do not seem to suffer nearly so much from the temperament issues. Of course every animal and every genetic line within a breed is different, but I can vouch for the sweetness of the Champagnes. Rex are darlings too but tend to have a lot more energy, so to speak. Whichever breed you end up choosing, I'd recommend telling the breeder that temperament matters to you, and they can hopefully guide you to the more docile individuals.

Rex, Silver Fox and Satins each have a unique coat type that can be a real plus if you're interested in using the pelts. There does seem to be an current uptick in interest in Rex and Silver Fox, so those would be good choices if you have potential bunny sales in mind. On the other hand, high-quality NZ, Cals and Satins always command good prices; a friend and ARBA judge who raises nationally-recognized Californians gets a minimum of $150 for one of his rabbits.

Whatever you decide in terms of breed, I strongly suggest you develop a relationship with one or more breeders of that breed. In fact you may end up choosing a breed based on the breeders you get to know! In my experience, rabbit raisers tend to be a very supportive, helpful bunch, and you can learn so much from them without doing it the hard way.

Wow, thanks for all the great pictures and advice!
Ah, the only pedigreed rabbits I've ever seen being advertised are Holland Lops and English Lops. They start out at $125 and they're not what I'm looking for anyway. This area is kind of small and rural so I think people have to travel an hour to even do 4H or FFA. I assume rabbit shows are probably all the way in Blacksburg or out to the north. Or maybe farther south in the Raleigh area of North Carolina. Of course, if you're located in Alaska, that's nothing compared to the travel difficulties you likely have! XD
I have some friends who breed rabbits and sell them. But they all do pet lionheads and minis and they are absolutely saddened and devastated that I would consider eating a rabbit. So I need to branch out more I suppose. haha.
This is all very good info and interesting to me. Thank you so much!

 

[ihatedarkroast]

Ok so I went to Rural King and after being out of rabbits for a while they had rexes and minis. Here is the boy I brought home. He is 8 weeks. The standards were all siblings. I picked the biggest one. He also happens to be the most laid back and friendly. There were some otters with the super silky fur but they were skittish and clawy so I passed. This guy is soft but not like velvet. He was $44. The lady at the store said the rexes sell the best for them.

Is this the correct body type? I guess i should weigh him.

 

[Alaska Satin]

Ok so I went to Rural King and after being out of rabbits for a while they had rexes and minis. Here is the boy I brought home. He is 8 weeks. The standards were all siblings. I picked the biggest one. He also happens to be the most laid back and friendly. There were some otters with the super silky fur but they were skittish and clawy so I passed. This guy is soft but not like velvet. He was $44. The lady at the store said the rexes sell the best for them.

Is this the correct body type? I guess i should weigh him.

He's cute!!! I think the otter color is one of the prettiest in any breed, and looks especially good in rex.

One nice thing about rex and satin is that they both have distinctive coats that are produced by recessive genes, so if they've got the proper coat you know they're at least going to breed true for that characteristic. Even if his coat isn't as velvety as the others, it does look like a rex coat; he also has the dumbo-sized ears of a real rex. That's good news for your breeding program since it sounds like you may be able to sell extras to Rural King!

It's hard to tell without seeing him posed properly and without putting my hands on him, but I don't see anything in the photos that would make me think he's a poor meat animal. And if he's friendly, that's a huge win.

Yes, weighing him is a good idea. Recording weekly weights is a great way to start keeping track of growth rates, which are a great indicator of fitness.

So from here out, here are a couple of things to think about.

1) If you can buy a doe with the rex coat, you should get nothing but rex-coated bunnies. At that point, you can actually create your own pedigreed line. To be considered "purebred," a rabbit has to have a three-generation pedigree (parents/grandparents/great-grandparents) that consists of all the same breed. To be complete, the name and/or ear number, variety (color), and adult weight of each animal has to be included. Don't forget to record the weights! You'd be amazed at how quickly you can make pedigrees happen, rabbits having a pretty quick generation time. I started with unpedigreed Satins (I knew they were purebred, I just couldn't afford to buy the pedigrees along with them) and within a couple of years I had fully-pedigreed rabbits.

2) Look for a solid-colored doe if possible. Broken-colored (spotted) animals have one dominant gene that causes the spotting. The typical explanation is that the broken gene (notated <En>) is like throwing a bucket of whitewash over a colored rabbit. Having two broken genes is like throwing two buckets of whitewash on the rabbit. It ends up mostly white with a little bit of color: few or no spots on the body, usually with color on the ears, around the eyes, on the nose (often reminiscent of the heavy eyebrows and mustache of Charlie Chaplin, thus these rabbits are known as "charlies").

Charlies are very cute, but they have a tendency to suffer from a condition called megacolon, which is what it sounds like. There are many healthy charlies, but since the condition doesn't always show up right away in young bunnies, you won't necessarily know it's lurking there for a while.

However, a healthy charlie can be a really great breeder in an area like yours where spotted rabbits are popular, because carrying two <En> genes guarantees that all of its offspring will be broken. You just want to make sure that you breed it to a solid.

3) Hopefully you can get a rex doe from the breeder you mentioned before. But to get started, if you can't find another source for rex, you can actually consider buying a sibling to breed with your buck. Rabbits are frequently linebred with good results. I won't go into it here - there's been a lot of discussion on other threads on this site - but occasional sibling crosses have produced great rabbits, including my first-ever Grand Champion buck. If you can talk with the breeder, you can find out how cosely related the parents of your buck were, which would help make a decision about doing a sibling cross.

4) For that reason as well as others, I'd highly encourage you to ask the folks at Rural King to help you get in contact with the breeder of your little buck. Tell them that you are just starting out and would like to find out more about your new rabbit and the lines it came from. Even if they won't give you the person's contact information, maybe they'll pass yours on to the breeder. Not only can you learn things about that particular line of rex, and how the breeder manages his/her rabbits in your climate, but he/she may even be able to help you find a doe that complements your buck.

Congratulations on your new bunny!

 

[Buknee]

As always, Alaska Satin does a great job on explaining things.
The only thing I would add, since the Rex are only 8 weeks old, I wouldn't worry too much about them seeming skittish. Once they get daily handling, they should calm down and greet you at the cage door.
The little doe that I kept from my last Rex litter was the most timid. She always ran to the back corner. Now that she is away from her mom and siblings, she gladly meets me at her cage door to be pet and held.

 

[Zee-Man]

Silver Fox is a very nice breed. I have 2 a this time and will breeding them in the spring. Lovely coats of uncommon color. Mine have very nice temperaments. ANNNND you can get them from our very own @KelleyBee . She was kind enough to meet me partway for my purchase.

 

[KelleyBee]

Silver Fox is a very nice breed. I have 2 a this time and will breeding them in the spring. Lovely coats of uncommon color. Mine have very nice temperaments. ANNNND you can get them from our very own @KelleyBee . She was kind enough to meet me partway for my purchase.

Thank you for the mention and kind words, Zee-Man!

 

[Robochelle]

When it comes to the cold, as long as they start outside in the fall they'll have absolutely no problem with your lowest temperatures there; mine are happy and active at lower Temps. Don't send indoor buns out in the drastic cold though, they'll go into shock.

It is a stressor so they will react worse to illness or parasites. Give them a pet down the spine every couple days to monitor how fat they are under the fur, that'll help you catch on in time to treat an ailment.

keep some fleece blankets that are the right size to drape over the cages. Rabbits can acclimatize to very cold temperatures, BUT you want to cover the cage for a few days if the temperature drops too fast. With a quick calculation to Fahrenheit I'd say a drop of 18 or more degrees will make them uncomfortable. If a cold snap is predicted, throw the blankets on the cages for a few day, then flip the front up for a few more days, then they'll be fine.

Get heated water bowls for the months below freezing, but don't use them in the summer; wait for the summer water bowls to freeze at night before switching over-- they last much longer that way.

And my latest discovery from last year, if you can afford to buy Timothy hay cubes instead of relying on long hay from bales, it's easier to remove blocks of frozen-to-the-cage-floor stuff. It's also less likely to freeze.

 

[ihatedarkroast]

Ok we named the rabbit Harvey and he is exactly 4 lbs at 8 weeks. I tried to pose him for form but he was really curious and wouldn't hold still.

Anyway I'll try again in a month haha.
I reached out via email to a couple sellers of rexes that had solid does and they haven't gotten back to me. Kinda typical for craigslist. So I will keep linebreeding as an option until another doe comes available.

@Bucknee good to know! Hopefully that will be the case. Those claws are pretty sharp.
@zeeman ok i will go for foxes if i expand later. They look so pretty
@Robochelle idk how these were raised so i will have to figure something out. This guy seemed cold and shivering outside yesterday and hot and panting inside when we had our wood stove cranked. Should I wait about a month when he has put on more weight and temps are less likely to be below freezing before moving him outside? Or should I put him out whenever its in the 40s or 50s now?

Right now our weather varies wildly. It can go from 60 F to 20s or teens in 24 hours. That's just the norm in Virginia in winter. It can stay below freezing for 4 days at a time but usually no longer so I may or may not bother with heated bowls. It's typically above freezing most days.

 

[ihatedarkroast]

What about this rex doe? 9 months old. No pedigree but purebred. Seller willing to drive halfway to meet me. $40 if i breed this castor to the broken black what colors might pop out in the litter? I mean i dont know about what the parents looked like for either bunny tho so....

 

[Alaska Satin]

Ok we named the rabbit Harvey and he is exactly 4 lbs at 8 weeks. I tried to pose him for form but he was really curious and wouldn't hold still.
Anyway I'll try again in a month haha.
I reached out via email to a couple sellers of rexes that had solid does and they haven't gotten back to me. Kinda typical for craigslist. So I will keep linebreeding as an option until another doe comes available.

He doesn't actually look bad at all! He may be a little long in the shoulder, but it could also be that he's not cooperating with you... but it looks like he peaks in the right place (A), and has decent depth (B), which is important for a meat rabbit.

Four pounds at 8 weeks also isn't bad at all, especially for a rabbit that has been bumped around a couple of times (the move to Rural King and then your place), which can result in a temporary drop in condition. Butcher weight is generally 4-5 pounds, and if your rabbits can make that by 8-10 weeks you'll be doing great!

His color is actually broken black otter rather than broken black. See the tan color inside and behind his ears, and around his eyes? Those are otter markings - they can be easy to miss on a broken. Here's a photo of a solid otter rex. Her tan isn't very bright but you can see the basic pattern (and why it might be less obvious in a broken):

What about this rex doe? 9 months old. No pedigree but purebred. Seller willing to drive halfway to meet me. $40 if i breed this castor to the broken black what colors might pop out in the litter? I mean i dont know about what the parents looked like for either bunny tho so....

She looks like a decent prospect, especially for a breeding age doe for that price. Sincethe buck won't be ready to breed for quite a while, you might ask if you can spend a little extra and buy her already bred. That would get you started, and increase your herd diversity.

She and the broken buck should have a litter of approximately 50/50 brokens versus solids. You'll probably get quite a few castors (solid and broken), and the rest will depend on what other genes the doe is carrying - castor is produced by all dominant genes, so she could be carrying a copy of any number of recessive genes as well. If you can find out what color her parents were, that might give you some clues.

 

[Robochelle]

This guy seemed cold and shivering outside yesterday and hot and panting inside when we had our wood stove cranked. Should I wait about a month when he has put on more weight and temps are less likely to be below freezing before moving him outside? Or should I put him out whenever its in the 40s or 50s now?

Right now our weather varies wildly. It can go from 60 F to 20s or teens in 24 hours. That's just the norm in Virginia in winter. It can stay below freezing for 4 days at a time but usually no longer so I may or may not bother with heated bowls. It's typically above freezing most days.

Hmm, you don't want him so hot he's panting if you can help it, especially in the winter.
We get similar extremes in the fall and spring, but it seems he's been living inside, or at least in a semi-heated space beforeyou got him. If he's shivering, it's too cold for him without a heat source.

You can see if he stays warm enough under a cage blanket. Bring him outside at the warm part of the day, and cover him then, so he can build up heat to last him through the night. That first day, I'd check on him at sunset, and again before bed to make sure he's still ok; if you're particularly worried then also see what the hourly forecast says is the coldest time of night.

Another option is to have a heated blanket or an electric heating pad laid out like a bed (covered by something thin he can't chew through and get at the electrical). They're pretty expensive so i wouldn't suggest buying one but if you happen to have one you don't want, or you find one for a good price, he'd be able to warm himself up by his tummy when needed and then go about his day. Better still if the bed was enclosed as his hihideaway.

If you have room for his hutch in a moderately insulated outbuilding that has an electric outlet, like a shed or a car-free garage, you can put a small space heater in there (be fire conscious though, bunnies eat flammable food); it won't necessarily warm up to house temperature, but it can cut down how cold it gets. For our greenhouse, we've set our programmable heater at the lowest it'll go, at 60 f, so it turns off if the room gets warm, but stays on high if it can't keep up. The water doesn't freeze until the outside gets colder than -15 f. If you don't have a programmable heater, I'd recommend only turning it on at night or on really cold days.

 

[ihatedarkroast]

Hmm, you don't want him so hot he's panting if you can help it, especially in the winter.
We get similar extremes in the fall and spring, but it seems he's been living inside, or at least in a semi-heated space beforeyou got him. If he's shivering, it's too cold for him without a heat source.

You can see if he stays warm enough under a cage blanket. Bring him outside at the warm part of the day, and cover him then, so he can build up heat to last him through the night. That first day, I'd check on him at sunset, and again before bed to make sure he's still ok; if you're particularly worried then also see what the hourly forecast says is the coldest time of night.

Another option is to have a heated blanket or an electric heating pad laid out like a bed (covered by something thin he can't chew through and get at the electrical). They're pretty expensive so i wouldn't suggest buying one but if you happen to have one you don't want, or you find one for a good price, he'd be able to warm himself up by his tummy when needed and then go about his day. Better still if the bed was enclosed as his hihideaway.

If you have room for his hutch in a moderately insulated outbuilding that has an electric outlet, like a shed or a car-free garage, you can put a small space heater in there (be fire conscious though, bunnies eat flammable food); it won't necessarily warm up to house temperature, but it can cut down how cold it gets. For our greenhouse, we've set our programmable heater at the lowest it'll go, at 60 f, so it turns off if the room gets warm, but stays on high if it can't keep up. The water doesn't freeze until the outside gets colder than -15 f. If you don't have a programmable heater, I'd recommend only turning it on at night or on really cold days.

So he's not panting inside any more. Maybe that first day he was overstimulated by moving into a new home? I think you're right that he was an indoor bunny. Unfortunately my heating pad has a built in safety feature where it shuts off after 30 minutes. All of those are neat ideas though. You gave me a lot of options to think about. -15f is brutal. When I lived in Upstate NY, I was not a fan of those types of temps! Here the weather forecast is showing either low 20s at night or 30s and pouring down rain. It's going to be 50s during the day a lot though, so I can put him outside some. But at night he might need to come in. I can try to set him up on the back porch with a chicken brooder lamp hung above his cage to raise the temperature a bit though. I think it'd be better to have him close to the house than in the tractor shed or walk-in chicken coop. If I end up with a lot of rabbits at some point I can see myself moving them all to the tractor shed together though. It only has 3 walls though so I'd still have to winterize. You gave me some ideas to start on. Thank you!