Pedigree question

[Miss M]

Can you sell rabbits with pedigrees if they are not tattooed?

If so, would you just leave the name blank?

Thank you!

 

[dangerbunny]

I'm going to say no, a tattoo is an additional identifier for showing and breeding. I don't see how a pedigree could be complete without a tattoo. Unless the buyer was going to complete the tattoo later?

 

[Ramjet]

I don't tattoo my rabbits & sell them with a pedigree , I leave the name blank but fill in all the other information , DOB , color , sex..

A breeder (or you) can write anything on that pedigree they want , they (or you) can tattoo anything they want on any critter. That tattoo doesn't guarantee a thing.

It all depends upon how much you trust that individual tattoo or not as to that rabbits history.

 

[Prisma]

Rabbits can be sold with no tattoo with a pedigree; a tattoo does not mean a rabbit is pedigreed either. It is not a requirement to tattoo rabbits before selling them, some people like to allow their buyers to use their own numbers/systems others have very strict ways of tattooing. As far as the name blank, you always list breeder prefix even if there is no given (call) name. Such as Name: Rebel Rose's (no name inserted and left blank space), not just Name: __________ as I want credit for my breeding of that rabbit. Some people do not want to do this however, say you breed a doe before you sell it with no guarantee the litter will be born alive and wean well, you can't pick and choose what is sold from that litter so you don't want your name (in essence your reputation and name tied to it) on that rabbit so you leave it all blank.

 

[Miss M]

Thank you all so much!!! :hooray:

A breeder (or you) can write anything on that pedigree they want , they (or you) can tattoo anything they want on any critter. That tattoo doesn't guarantee a thing.

It all depends upon how much you trust that individual tattoo or not as to that rabbits history.

Very good point!

Rabbits can be sold with no tattoo with a pedigree; a tattoo does not mean a rabbit is pedigreed either. It is not a requirement to tattoo rabbits before selling them, some people like to allow their buyers to use their own numbers/systems others have very strict ways of tattooing. As far as the name blank, you always list breeder prefix even if there is no given (call) name. Such as Name: Rebel Rose's (no name inserted and left blank space), not just Name: __________ as I want credit for my breeding of that rabbit. Some people do not want to do this however, say you breed a doe before you sell it with no guarantee the litter will be born alive and wean well, you can't pick and choose what is sold from that litter so you don't want your name (in essence your reputation and name tied to it) on that rabbit so you leave it all blank.

Thank you, that'll work great!

 

[SuburbanHomesteader]

I would not sell (or buy) a "pedigreed" rabbit unless the tattoo on the rabbit matches the tattoo indicated on the pedigree. It's not up to the buyer to tattoo the rabbit.

I did some research a couple of years ago - even emailed ARBA back and forth on some questions - in order to put together an FAQ document for those buyers that bought pedigreed rabbits.

Bottom line - you are putting your name on the pedigree, giving your word that the information contained on it is correct. If you don't tattoo the rabbit, then I'm not sure what good the pedigree would be.

 

[Prisma]

I would not sell (or buy) a "pedigreed" rabbit unless the tattoo on the rabbit matches the tattoo indicated on the pedigree. It's not up to the buyer to tattoo the rabbit.

I did some research a couple of years ago - even emailed ARBA back and forth on some questions - in order to put together an FAQ document for those buyers that bought pedigreed rabbits.

Bottom line - you are putting your name on the pedigree, giving your word that the information contained on it is correct. If you don't tattoo the rabbit, then I'm not sure what good the pedigree would be.

Very true...however it happens, even with the best breeders. One *should* always tattoo if selling with a pedigree, maybe should have said that. I wouldn't sell a pet not tattooed any more *just* because there's been more and more problems with sells in the last 2 yrs.

 

[mystang89]

Don't tatoo my rabbits and I sell with pedigree. I just leave the name blank and let them do the tatooing or whatever they want. If they don't like that then I eat the rabbit and smile with a full tummy

 

[Sagebrush]

Since I am selling more for the pet trade with my dutch rabbits I plan to tattoo them, have the tattoo on the papers/agreement that I have the people sign so that I know that they cannot change rabbits and try to get money back when something happens.

 

[Ramjet]

I would not sell (or buy) a "pedigreed" rabbit unless the tattoo on the rabbit matches the tattoo indicated on the pedigree. It's not up to the buyer to tattoo the rabbit.

I did some research a couple of years ago - even emailed ARBA back and forth on some questions - in order to put together an FAQ document for those buyers that bought pedigreed rabbits.

Bottom line - you are putting your name on the pedigree, giving your word that the information contained on it is correct. If you don't tattoo the rabbit, then I'm not sure what good the pedigree would be.

It all boils down to how much you trust the integrity of the person you are buying from.

I bought my Rex from One Acre Farm .... None of them have a tattoo. They all came with Pedigree's.

The tattoo is simply a requirement for showing and otherwise an identifying mark.

Unlike other breeds of livestock there is no regulation or registration that comes with a tattoo or pedigree.

For a small operation like mine that doesn't show , its just another expense & consumes my valuable time. I know where every rabbit is and where / who it came from and in general only have one or two litters at a time which are easily distinguishable from one another due to color.
I keep the documentation for each litter on my computer & when needed print a pedigree for sales. If I decide to keep one for breeding purposes I add it to my database and label its cage and from that point on that rabbit will generally stay in the same hole.
If they aren't sold or used as breeders , I see no point adding them to my database when they go to the freezer camp.

Since I only have only four purebred does and two purebred bucks .... It's easy to keep up with.

Now if I had a much larger operation where the possibility of confusion was greater .... I'd tattoo them.


When you think about it , a breeder can write anything on that pedigree they want tattoo or not. That tattoo doesn't magically increase their integrity.

 

[SuburbanHomesteader]

Finally figured out how to add the document to this thread.

When I used to sell pedigreed Rex, I included this document with the pedigree.

I no longer sell Rex - just New Zealands - and those customers are less concerned with having or maintaining pedigrees. They're looking for quality animals in order to put food on the table.

Anyway, because I like to do things the right way, many of the questions I had and that are contained in the document were answered by ARBA. I believe that the information given is solid and correct.

A while back, one of our members introduced me to the idea of "Fun, Food, and Fancy"...or as I took it to mean: Pets, Meat, and Show.

Because the pedigree is a fundamental part of getting a rabbit registered, it would stand to reason that pedigrees are more important to showing rabbits than anything else. ARBA registration doesn't really add any value to a pet or meat rabbit.

But the original question was "Can you sell rabbits with pedigrees if they are not tattooed?" Yes, you can.

 

[ottersatin]

Just my 2cents,
I wouldnot sell any rabbit with a pedigree that had not been Tattooed.
As was stated in previous posts, anyone can tattoo anything they want to
in an effort to make that particular pedigree fit the animal in question.
With a definite tattoo matching the number on the pedigree making it at least
a little bit harder to fudge the information.
On the other hand I do not name the rabbit, I leave that up to the purchaser.
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

 

[Miss M]

Thank you all, I really appreciate it! SuburbanHomesteader, I downloaded the document and read it. That is very informative!!!

I did go ahead and sell four 12-week-old kits with pedigrees and without tattoos. When I can, I want to get my own tattoo set. I want to be ready to tattoo before we sell another rabbit.

 

[alforddm]

Some mentioned altering the tatoo on a rabbit but something that hasn't been mentioned (I don't think) is that it would be quite easy to forge a pedigree to match a tatoo.

 

[Schipperkesue]

Some mentioned altering the tatoo on a rabbit but something that hasn't been mentioned (I don't think) is that it would be quite easy to forge a pedigree to match a tatoo.

It is also very simple to tattoo a rabbit to match a pedigree from another rabbit.

Again it boils down to the honesty, organization and record keeping of the seller.

 

[Ramjet]

Some mentioned altering the tatoo on a rabbit but something that hasn't been mentioned (I don't think) is that it would be quite easy to forge a pedigree to match a tatoo.

It is also very simple to tattoo a rabbit to match a pedigree from another rabbit.

Again it boils down to the honesty, organization and record keeping of the seller.

This is what I'm getting at ....

Because there is so little oversight (really no oversight) , everything comes down to the integrity of the seller as to the legitimacy of the pedigree , with or without a tattoo.

I do agree that the tattoo is a safeguard against mistakes for the breeder / seller who's integrity is not in question.
We'd all like to believe that everyone was of the highest character but the facts are that there are those who cheat ... at the silliest of things.

I've been contemplating getting a tattoo device , more for my own recordkeeping than anything else. I just cant decide which type (clamp or needle) or justify the expense at the moment since I don't show.
If I were showing ... things would be different. I'd have no choice but to tattoo.
In the future I do plan on showing but that's down the line at least two years.

As to the lack of oversight issue , I'm not in favor of adding layers of red tape and expense. The current system is adequate .... We just have to trust those we choose to deal with and avoid dealing with those we don't.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

As others have said, yes, you can sell a pedigreed rabbit without a tattoo.

My "rabbit partner" picked up several otter Rex for me at a show in Arizona last year (not a planned purchase) and one was a very young doe. She was not tattooed, but all of the others were. Her tattoo number was provided on the pedigree, so it was up to me to tattoo her.

I also recently transported three Holland Lops from a show for a buyer. They were from a very respected Judge and breeder. Again, the two older animals were tattooed, but the youngest was not.

I would much rather have the pedigree in hand and an untattooed rabbit than the reverse. I have had first hand experience and heard too many stories of breeders promising to forward the pedigree and then being too flaky to do so.

I think that most seasoned exhibitors would feel the same- it is a simple matter to tattoo a rabbit (or have someone else do so) whereas without a pedigree the animal is virtually worthless to a breeding program if the intent is to sell show animals.

I no longer sell Rex - just New Zealands - and those customers are less concerned with having or maintaining pedigrees. They're looking for quality animals in order to put food on the table.

I personally feel that it adds a professional touch to sell tattooed rabbits, especially to those who are new to raising them. I also think that it implies that the animal is of better quality.

For those that breed purebred meat animals and hope to sell meat pens for 4-H, I would definitely recommend investing in tattoo equipment so the animals are ready for the youth to show.

 

[fhjmom]

I personally would not sell a rabbit without a tattoo, (pet, show or otherwise) just because the potential for issues to come up later are, IMHO, greater if that rabbit leaves you without an identifying mark. If you gave it a tattoo and keep records, then you will know where the rabbit with XYZ# goes and what quality you represented it as to the buyer.

Also, tattoos, pedigrees, and names are all completely separate issues. Our tattoo system does not relate to the name given on the pedigree document. All of our rabbits are tattooed with our rabbitry initials then a number (BS#), and most rabbits are named according to our system of "Rabbitry Name's Rabbit Name" before they are sold. Although I keep pedigree records on all our breedings and so all could be "pedigreed", we do not give a pedigree document to any rabbit sold as pet quality. I, however, keep that rabbit's pedigree in my sales records and mark it as "pet". That way if it ever did show up on a show table somewhere, if someone accused us of selling an unsuspecting buyer a poor quality "show rabbit", I will have at least some documentation of my side of the story.

The document posted by SuburbanHomesteader is great! Thank you for sharing the info, but I think that the limit of 5 letters or numbers isn't accurate anymore? We have at least one rabbit that has a six-letter tattoo and I have seen longer. We haven't been in rabbits that long and I think I have read that the 5 character limit is something that used to be a rule but has been changed?? I could be wrong but wanted to clarify?

 

[SuburbanHomesteader]

I'll have to check with ARBA - its been a few years since I put all that together. And since I don't sell pedigreed Rex anymore, I haven't kept it current.

I still tattoo all my rabbits except for obvious culls that go to my raw feeders. It's the only way I can tell one NZ REW from another!! I track weight and all that and it's just the only way I've found to know which rabbit is which.

Oh yeah...... The whole pedigree thing is all based on honesty. For me, it's the only way I knew which pedigree document went with which rabbit.

 

[Ramjet]

I'll have to check with ARBA - its been a few years since I put all that together. And since I don't sell pedigreed Rex anymore, I haven't kept it current.

I still tattoo all my rabbits except for obvious culls that go to my raw feeders. It's the only way I can tell one NZ REW from another!! I track weight and all that and it's just the only way I've found to know which rabbit is which.

Oh yeah...... The whole pedigree thing is all based on honesty. For me, it's the only way I knew which pedigree document went with which rabbit.

Working in a breed where every rabbit looked almost identical would definitely change my habits & opinion.