pasturella

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sam

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I have been reading posts about pasturella and what is your opinions on this. Is it smart or fiscally worth it in a meat rabbitry to treat them or do you just cull them out and clean out the cages. I have a couple does that are sneezing with white snot on them and want to do what is best for everyone. Thoughts.

Sam
 
so after i cull those out, can you still eat the meat, and what should a person sanitize the cage with (a bleach mixture)
 
Cull them fast, don't drag your feet on that one, it CAN wipe out your whole herd.

Sanitizing with a bleach solution is fine, and let the cage sit empty a while, 3 days minimum, but I'd personally wait a bit longer. (just because it's doesn't hurt to.)

And yes, the meat is safe just make sure to cook it thoroughly.
 
I cull any meat rabbits that I suspect to have P.

I've only treated one ever, and he lived in QT for a long time before I let him back around the herd. Never had a symptom since, but I always watch him closely. I wouldn't treat any other rabbit, but he was my very first angora and the sweetest rabbit in the world. In other words, he's my baby. I could let anyone else go but him.
 
I was recently in your situation. I have some strain of pasteurella running through my herd right now despite stringent QT practices. Since most of the local rabbits are infected, I've opted to breed for resistance. I've only had to cull one rabbit so far (my herd sire who turned out to be prone to sore hocks anyways), the rest are only sneezy/snotty when stressed. I do have one other buck who I'll be culling in the next day or so who was the cause of the initial infection since I now have one of his get that, so far, doesn't seem to be showing any symptoms. I'll also be culling one doe in a few months after I get one more litter off of her. Aside from that, I simply haven't brought in any new rabbits and won't until I have 'clean' rabbits over here. At that point, I'm curious to see how a new rabbit would hold up to exposure.

I think I've lucked out because the strain I've been dealing with has been handled by the rabbits very well.
 
Hi Sam,

most of us do cull for snot, even though it is possible that it is something else, like bordetella, which is treatable.

However, if part of your goal in raising your own meat is to have it be antibiotic free, it makes no sense to treat any infectious illness since it indicates a weak immune system which you don't want in your herd's genetics.

Pasteurella is actually very fragile outside of the host animal, and lives less than 24 hours at room temperature. You do need to disinfect all objects the rabbit came in contact with and in sneezing distance.

This is a link to a technical sheet I copied on Pasteurella:

post169006.html#p169006
 
does a white spot of snot on their nose indicate Pasturella? I was to eager to get rabbits and bought some off CL and didn't know about P. I see now it may be the worst thing I've done so far. If I cull the ones I got from him, I'm going to lose half my herd. :( I have 13 does, some show signs and some don't that are bred and due in the next couple days. What do I do with them? Do I cull them now or wait for a litter and will the kits have pasturella right off the bat. Man this sucks, they are all really good looking rabbits. I am so mad at myself :evil:
 
I'd cull anyone who ISN'T pregnant and IS dripping snot.
and I'd let the does have their litters in quarantine, simply because I can't stand to kill a pregnant doe.

That's my own weakness though.

From what I've read and experienced myself, kits usually don't start sneezing or suffering symptoms until after they are weaned.
 
I did some more research and I am coming to the realization that I am going to have to cull at least half of my herd :cry: . I still don't really know what I should do with my does that are pregnant. If my does don't show signs should I still cull them since they came from the same irresponsible breeder. Man am I PO'ed. I'm not sure if it's more at me or at him for being irresponsible. :evil: I hope the rest of my herd that didn't come from him isn't going to be infected.

sam
 
Actually, rabbits that aren't sick might just be resistant, and resistance is priceless in a meat herd. I'd keep them in quarantine for at least a month and a 1/2 anyway (someone on here recently had a new rabbit break with sneezing after the 30 day mark.).

If those does do make it out of quarentine
I wouldn't leave them with your bucks very long, just long enough to get the job done, and also
watch the litters, and if a healthy seeming doe produces sneezy litters, cull her too.
 
A lot of people don't understand exactly what pasturella can do to a herd. My herd is built with rabbits that are worth a pretty penny, so anything inferior is immediately culled.

I went to a show in AL and I will NEVER be returning because the number of sick animals was amazing. My friend was taking a chance with a doe on the raffle table for brood and after she was handed her prize, she was met with a snot covered rabbit. We handed it back and people were over hearing us explain why it needed to go back to the original owner and be culled.

I don't know how many people gathered around and had NO idea what snuffles was. Then someone off on the side started spouting how it was completely curable. It probably explained the high number of sick rabbits.

How many people sided with one or the other? Do you listen to the facts or what you want to hear?

Watch your herd for now and cull them accordingly.
 
Kitty102":1t4a89hd said:
I was recently in your situation. I have some strain of pasteurella running through my herd right now despite stringent QT practices. Since most of the local rabbits are infected, I've opted to breed for resistance. I've only had to cull one rabbit so far (my herd sire who turned out to be prone to sore hocks anyways), the rest are only sneezy/snotty when stressed. I do have one other buck who I'll be culling in the next day or so who was the cause of the initial infection since I now have one of his get that, so far, doesn't seem to be showing any symptoms. I'll also be culling one doe in a few months after I get one more litter off of her. Aside from that, I simply haven't brought in any new rabbits and won't until I have 'clean' rabbits over here. At that point, I'm curious to see how a new rabbit would hold up to exposure.

I think I've lucked out because the strain I've been dealing with has been handled by the rabbits very well.

Kitty103, 'breeding for resistance' is culling anything that shows symptoms and only keeping/breeding those that NEVER show any symptoms. Animals that show symptoms and then they go way and only return when stressed are NOT resistant. They are infected and pose a risk to the rest of your herd, any new animals you bring in, and any one else that buys from you. I strongly suggest you cull any rabbit that displays symptoms, if you are wanting to breed for resistance.
 
A lot of the veterinary websites claim it's totally "curable", trying to get people to believe that feeding an animal antibiotics for the extent of it's lifespan a "cure". I'm sure it's highly PROFITABLE for vets, but no, not CURABLE.

I drove 4 hours away to pick up a pair of English angoras (they were asking $100-$150 each), only to see their noses and eyes just oozing with white snot.

The owner didn't dare face me, I think, because she left her teenage kids there to sell them to me, of course, kids that didn't know anything about the rabbits.

I almost cried, cause I couldn't justify spending $250+ dollars on animals just to put them out of their misery. But I hated leaving them there In that sorry of shape. The poor things. I feel BAD for anyone who bought those rabbits.
 
Zass,

You say to cull all, does that include the does that are pregnant and showing signs? I just want to do this right and not waste anymore money. This whole thing is making me sick to my stomach. :sick:

sam
 
sam":38n1z7tm said:
Zass,

You say to cull all, does that include the does that are pregnant and showing signs? I just want to do this right and not waste anymore money. This whole thing is making me sick to my stomach. :sick:

sam


Honestly?
If you can stand to do it, then it's probably best for both you and your herd to cull even the pregnant ones that have white snot. When I had sneezy pregnant does I couldn't do it, but mine never had the white snot. So I let them have their litters in quarentine, and when the kits reached 4 lbs everyone went to freezer camp.

Once they are gone the stress attached to them will leave as well though, and I can tell you from experience, those two months of waiting for the kits to grow out were very hard on me.
 
Zass":272kxwc2 said:
sam":272kxwc2 said:
Zass,

You say to cull all, does that include the does that are pregnant and showing signs? I just want to do this right and not waste anymore money. This whole thing is making me sick to my stomach. :sick:

sam


Honestly?
If you can stand to do it, then it's probably best for both you and your herd to cull even the pregnant ones that have white snot. When I had sneezy pregnant does I couldn't do it, but mine never had the white snot. So I let them have their litters in quarentine, and when the kits reached 4 lbs everyone went to freezer camp.

Once they are gone the stress attached to them will leave as well though, and I can tell you from experience, those two months of waiting for the kits to grow out were very hard on me

We kept the kits from does with P and spent the next three months culling them one by one as they all came down with symptoms eventually. Plus, even if they didn't, you would have to keep them quarantined until breeding age, then see if they display symptoms when stressed by kindling. If I had it to do over, I would cull them all, disinfect everything and start with all new stock.
 
Zass":2uszg2s9 said:
A lot of the veterinary websites claim it's totally "curable", trying to get people to believe that feeding an animal antibiotics for the extent of it's lifespan a "cure". I'm sure it's highly PROFITABLE for vets, but no, not CURABLE.

I drove 4 hours away to pick up a pair of English angoras (they were asking $100-$150 each), only to see their noses and eyes just oozing with white snot.

The owner didn't dare face me, I think, because she left her teenage kids there to sell them to me, of course, kids that didn't know anything about the rabbits.

I almost cried, cause I couldn't justify spending $250+ dollars on animals just to put them out of their misery. But I hated leaving them there In that sorry of shape. The poor things. I feel BAD for anyone who bought those rabbits.

In reverse order:

2) I'm so sorry you drove all that way, only to find very sick rabbits. But I commend your strength of character in *not* taking them into your possession and agree with you that the owner didn't dare face you--she knew what was going on. :angry:

1) Most vets deal with a clientele whose rabbits are pets only. These pet rabbits might have one rabbit companion at most. Under these circumstances, yes, a disease can be "curable": it poses no threat (so long as it's under pharmaceutical management) to a(nother) rabbit, and the affected rabbit won't die prematurely.

However, the vast majority of members of this board are not "pet rabbit" people. Heck, for all I know, I might be the only one, and even I am making use of my rabbit as a garden assistant (he eats some of my weeds and overgrown veggie plants, and he provides me with incredible fertilizer). For people who utilize larger numbers of rabbits, e.g., as a food source for their family or a fiber source for others as well as themselves (several Angoras, at least), this kind of disease strikes not only at the affected rabbit but at the entire herd/flock/collection of rabbits. Two lines of thought, I think, make the overwhelming majority of members of RT view pasteurella as the kiss of death:

--the contagion to the rest of the animals and the extreme expense of veterinary care for so many rabbits, and/or
--the commitment, as stated above, to antibiotic-free meat, which commitment would make veterinary treatment of pasteurella contrary to a family's philosophy regarding the suitability of food for their table.

I will say this, though: without this board, I would never have considered the potential threat a second rabbit might pose to Parsley Graybuns. I would have (should such a rabbit appear on the horizon) willy-nilly put the second rabbit into the same room with him, in an adjoining ex-pen or cage, whichever seemed more suitable. And then I could have lost both of them, if the second rabbit proved to have a contagious illness.

Now, however, when/if a second rabbit appears, I'll keep her (probably "her") in a completely different part of the house for 30 or perhaps 45 days before introducing the two of them. I'll feed him first, wash my hands, feed her second, and wash my hands again.

I'm so sorry for the OP, though, who appears to be facing a dreadful situation. :(
 
Ahhh, forgive me dogcatmom, because I agree with you about everything you said, except semantics. heh

Pasteurellosis would be properly considered treatable or manageable, not curable.
 
PASTEURELLA [SNUFFLES]

Many breeders believe that all rabbits carry the Pasteurella multocidia organism in their respiratory tract. This is not true! Though some may indeed carry the infection, there are many which do not. {This is why I breed toward disease resistance. If any rabbit shows signs of infection they are culled] Pasteurella manifests itself in many forms. The most common is what is referred to as snuffles. This is a purulent discharge from the nose. Should you see matting on the inside front paws you can most assuredly blame Pasteurella.

Symptoms
The first signs of the disease are sneezing and discharge from the nose and or eyes. Not every sneeze is indicative of the presents of Pasteurella. A rabbit may sneeze when it gets water up it's nose while drinking, or it may have an allergy to something in the area. Hay dust, colognes etc. These sneezes will have a clear watery discharge or none at all. If there is persistant sneezing with matting of the inside of the front paws and a colored discharge from the nose or eyes it is safe to assume the rabbit has a Pasteurella infection.. This is an extremely contagious disease for which there is NO CURE! There are treatments which will mask the symptoms but the rabbit remains contagious. Any rabbit which you treat places your whole herd at risk of infection. The Pasteurella germ can be carried on your clothing and person. It is of extreme importance that you change your clothes and wash theroughly before going near any other rabbits. Isolate any sick rabbit immediately and care for the herd first and the isolated animal last. Disinfect it's cage and any other equipment the rabbit came in contact with.

TREATMENTS
Rabbits can be treated with a number of antibiotics but to this point none have been successful in bringing about a cure. The best treatment for Pasteurella is prevention. Through A.R.B.A. [American Rabbit Breeders Association] they are trying to develop a cure for snuffles, but it is still a long way off. For now, strict sanitation, good ventilation and culling will go a long way in helping to prevent the spread of this dreaded disease.

PREVENTION
Ventilation is important in snuffles control since both humidity an ammonia are involved in the spread and growth of this condition. Ammonia is present in rabbit urine, having it build up in the atmosphere has a bad effect on both humans and rabbits. If you can smell it while walking through your rabbitry, think how it is effecting your rabbits. By removing the urine and feces from the rabbitry you are decreasing the amount of ammonia in the surrounding area.
Ottersatin. :eek:ldtimer:
 

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