Other ways of knowing Pasturella

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mystang89

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Like the topic says: Is there any other way of telling whether a rabbit has pasturella other than sneezing with white snot and matted paws? I have a doe that I just weened all her kits from. She's been sneezing like crazy so I've been keeping an eye on her for a few weeks now and only yesterday saw a small string of snot on her. I've been looking at her much closely now to see if I see it again and I haven't. She's also never had matted paws. I don't want to kill her if I don't have to but I don't want to kill all my other rabbits either because I was too slow with her.
 
Opinion tides are turning from 100% cull to test and/or breed resistance. Can you replace her with a good doe or two from her in hopes they are stronger and wont develop symptoms and an active infection?

I had the weirdest thing show. A doe who has P regularly had snot, 2 wks before she kindled and for a week after, her nose and lungs were clear! Snot then came back and she's going out the door. I really don't know how or why about that...

Can you get a stethoscope or just place your ear over her lungs? Sometimes you can hear irregularities.
 
In my barn, and in many other breeder's barn that I know, culling IS the way to breed resistance into your herd. Anything that shows symptoms of P goes. Sneezing is not always P, but white snot is an automatic ticket to Freezer Camp. Testing can be expensive and is not always accurate. To my way of thinking, if I am treat a rabbit the same as the rest and it gets sick, there is something not right with it's immune system and I don't want that in my herd.
 
ChickiesnBunnies":l1kud14a said:
Opinion tides are turning from 100% cull to test and/or breed resistance. Can you replace her with a good doe or two from her in hopes they are stronger and wont develop symptoms and an active infection?

Can you get a stethoscope or just place your ear over her lungs? Sometimes you can hear irregularities.

I still have her kits which aren't showing any symptoms which I have thought of replacing her with. The only reason I didn't want to replace her is because she's proven herself, she's the only mature SF doe I have and she's ready to breed.

OneAcreFarm":l1kud14a said:
In my barn, and in many other breeder's barn that I know, culling IS the way to breed resistance into your herd. Anything that shows symptoms of P goes. Sneezing is not always P, but white snot is an automatic ticket to Freezer Camp. Testing can be expensive and is not always accurate. To my way of thinking, if I am treat a rabbit the same as the rest and it gets sick, there is something not right with it's immune system and I don't want that in my herd.

I'm leaning more towards this and I have killed rabbits for less, (attitudes) but I'm just trying to get over that wall I guess.

Thanks for the responses.
 
A lot of time sneezing, and even a little bit of snot, is a symptom of an allergy. Common allergies for rabbits are certain hays, and certain kinds of wood shavings. So a person does not need to panic. The truth is, all rabbits carry Pasturella, it is only certain strains that are deadly. If the rabbit really has Pasturella, and you have kept it that long close to your other rabbits, it may be too late anyway.

Probably one out of 20 rabbits I raise up to adulthood has some kind of allergy. I usually cull them anyway, because I don't want that susceptibility passed along either. Usually it is an allergy to fescue hay. However if the rabbit had some special (good) trait that I really wanted, I wouldn't worry about keeping it.

If you ever really get one of the virulent strains of Pasturella in your rabbitry, you are most likely going to have to get rid of all your rabbits, seriously disinfect your entire set up, and then wait 6 months before getting any more.


This is a post I made on the subject several years ago:

Pasteurella multocida

Pasteurella is the disease we fear most in our rabbitries. We have all heard different information, so…..what is the truth. According to the 6th edition of Rabbit Production, virtually all rabbits carry the bacteria.
Other articles vary in this opinion, but most agree that the majority of rabbits have it currently or have had in the past.

http://www.rabbitnetwork.org/articles/past.shtml

We have heard, that some rabbits may be recovered carriers, so if your rabbitry gets the disease, you should eliminate the entire herd. If virtually all rabbits carry the disease, how could one raise rabbits? I have been researching these questions, and this is a summation of the information I have found.

A) Often manifestations that appear to be Pasteurella infections are not. Rabbits, like people, often have allergies. I, personally, have had two kits, from different litters that were allergic to the hay I was feeding. Take away the hay, and the symptoms left with it. Another breeder had this same problem with a certain type of wood shavings. I don’t suggest keeping such rabbits for breeders, but one should always evaluate the situation before panicking. A less dangerous (to rabbits) disease called Bordetella bronciseptica (known as kennel cough with dogs and cats) can mimic some of the symptoms of Pasteurella multocida. It is sometimes found together with Pasteurella in severe infections.


B) There are different strains of this germ. Some strains are more virulent than others. It is possible that healthy rabbits are able to resist the less virulent strains, and therefore, with good husbandry, the disease is not a problem. Perhaps that indicates that if your rabbitry is clean, and you are developing multiple cases, it is time to get rid of your stock. If one is not developing multiple cases, it might be prudent to wait. If it is one of the virulent strains, one is probably going to get more rabbits infected, anyway, and one can always purge then.

http://www.rabbit.org/care/pasteurella.html

“Colonization and disease is influenced by factors related to both host and pathogen. Different strains of P. multocida have been isolated from rabbits. They are classified by capsular type and serotype; A:12 is the most common in rabbits in the U.S., but A:3 and other A and D serotypes exist. More severe disease has been associated with A:3 and D strains”



C) In the event you wish to treat a infected rabbit, Baytril is the only recognized drug that is 100% effective. I have heard that some people have trouble finding this drug. With my past experience with pigeons, I know it use to be available from Foy’s or Siegel’s.
 
I really do appreciate all the different information given to me. I feel like I'm pulled one way and the other. I wish she would just blow out a big ol' snotty wad in her quarantine cage that say's kill me now lol.

One thing I did forget to mention and it's another thing that has been effecting my decision is that she seems to breath faster and heavier than the rest of the rabbits. Could be because she was nursing, could be because it's starting to get hot, could be because she has pasturella.

I understand that when it comes down to it the decision is up to me but last time I made the decision to cull something I ended up killing a chicken that I thought wasn't laying eggs anymore...said chicken had an egg in it plus yokes for more eggs. Needless to say I don't want to make the same mistake.
 
Here is the thing...if you saw WHITE snot, then it is *likely* P...are you willing to risk the rest of your herd by keeping her? If it was CLEAR snot, quarantine her for a month and watch her. If it is allergies, you can decide to keep or cull. I don't keep rabbits with allergies, again, weak immune system. There are too many healthy rabbits out there to keep one that isn't. Also, her offspring is likely to have allergies and pass the tendency along. I don't personally believe that ALL rabbits CARRY P. "Carrying" would indicate a latent infection with no visible, active symptoms. I do believe that ALL rabbits have been or will be EXPOSED to P at some point. If their immune system is healthy and strong, then P does not have a chance to multiply and actually INFECT them. As someone else said, there are different strains, some more virulent than others, but I don't want ANY of them in my barn. If you keep the babies from that doe, you will need to keep them quarantined until they reach breeding age and see what happens when they are stressed by kindling. Mine did not begin to show any symptoms until 9wks and all were snotting by 12wks.
 
White snot is caused by white blood cells reacting to unnatural stimulus, this can be pollen, dust, pneumonia or a any kind of bacteria, virus, mycoplazma, protozoa, or even mold spores. It is not necessarily Pasturella. A white blood cell or phagocyte, dies after enveloping the foreign body and the dead white blood cells are what make the snot white (or green).
 
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