Orange x Tort

[volz83]

I wasn't planning on it but I ended up purchasing a beautiful brood broken orange holland lop doe. I breed and show shaded holland lops. The breeder was tight on space and for whatever the reasons, was going to give her to a lady who uses culls for natural dog food. I didn't get her just to keep her from being dog food but mostly because she has qualities I could use for breeding and she's just too nice of a doe to let that happen.

Anyways, as mentioned, I breed only shaded colors such as torts, sable points, Siamese sables etc. I do know genetics fairly well, I learn quick. So I have some questions/like to know more about the color orange and some good advice. I do not have the does pedigree right now but I will this Saturday.

So some basic info: the breeder breeds otter, chestnuts, frosty etc. I do not know if this doe is black based or chocolate but probably good to "assume" black based, good chance she carries "cchd" and no idea yet if she is "AA, Aa, or at (otter). I know if she carries otter I run the risk of tort otter but how do "a" and "at" play together? Which is dominant etc? Not sure yet if she carries non extension etc. I love Orange so if I get a litter full of them, I would not be disappointed lol

I know not to cross orange with my sable points etc. The other two colors I have are: self black carrying rew and a self blue.

I'm not looking to create the cleanest oranges possible, of course try to avoid most smutt as I can. Can Orange mess with the tort color in any resulting kits? Basically, what should I watch out for? Type is most important over color but I want to go about this wisely. I assume a tort with high rufus factor would be good? And last question lol: is red a possibility in later generations (orange x orange)? I know the color is very rare so not looking to breed for it but just curious.

 

[alforddm]

Orange is nonextension with agouti so ee A- It could be ee AA, ee Aa or ee Aat. So, bred to your tort, you should get all nonextension kits. If she is ee AA you will get all orange. If she is EE Aa you will get 1/2 orange and 1/2 tort. If she is EE Aat you will get 1/2 orange and 1/2 torted otter.

You can test breed to your REW for cchd.

I'm not sure if it could mess with your tort color or not maybe Dood can answer that one?

 

[volz83]

Thanks! That's about what I was thinking as well. I'll keep my eye out for torted otters although hopefully I'll have a better idea if she carries otter when I get her pedigree on Saturday.

 

[Dood]

If you want frosty you can breed her to your sable points and if she carries cchl (or cchd or ch or c ) you should get some

But if she also carries tan, which is dominant to self, you will get martenized sable points which are a favourite of mine but not a showable colour in any breed

 

[volz83]

That's good to know! I love frosty! So tan, "at" if she carries that, does she have the potential to produce otter or not when bred to tort (besides producing tort otter)? That's one gene I'm not really familiar with so only know very basics of it.

I'll post her pedigree info this weekend for sure! Getting excited to breed her next month!

 

[alforddm]

If she carries at she has the potential to produce otter if breed to something with full extension (E) and either otter (at) or self (a).

 

[volz83]

Ok for now I only have non extension (torts) to breed with her, the other buck does carry E- my Siamese Sable buck. I have a black and a blue doe but no self bucks. I will eventually have self colored bucks in a few generations. In the meantime, if she does carry tan, I'll cull (pet out) any tort otters.

One last question, what about red? I see the genetic code has "ww" wide band gene, do you have to have two oranges that carry the "w" gene? Just purely curious

 

[Dood]

Wideband is recessive so both parents need the gene to produce a wideband kit

It is difficult to see the effect the wideband gene has in most colours so only by test breeding can you find it

The gene extends the orange band and turns white areas to red - tans are basically wideband otters and reds are wideband fawns whose belly has turned red/orange instead of cream/white

Wideband torts and frosty are "different" looking but it can be subtle

 

[volz83]

Good to know! Thanks!

__________ Sat Nov 21, 2015 4:50 pm __________

So the doe has zero otter in background! Breeder doesn't breed otter at all. The does dam is tort and sire is orange ^_^ <br /><br /> __________ Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:02 pm __________ <br /><br /> I got her pedigree! Her sire is broken orange and dam tort. She has mostly tort (black), orange, several creams, one opal and one chestnut. No chocolate as far as I can see, she gave me a four generation pedigree. So I assume I'll have more orange than tort (odds wise) then tort. I hope she might carry dilute from her cream relatives!