Orange crosses

[Jasuji]

A (dumb) question about Orange. What are the best crosses for orange? Should it be kept separate from the other color groups? If so, is that because the ee messes up the other colors or is it the rufus factor? If I cross orange with black, will the red color affect my black kits? I have seen pro & con on whether red affects a black kit or not.

 

[alforddm]

Crossing orange into black may decrease the intensity of your blacks but that is just a maybe. If the orange is ee AA and the black is EE aa all you will get first generation is chestnuts. If they carry recessives then reds, torts, and possibly other colors will be possible depending on the recessives they carry..

 

[SableSteel]

What breed?

 

[Jasuji]

The breed is Netherland Dwarf. So if I cross orange and black, the kits would, by necessity, get at least one e from the orange. Would Ee in the kits result in a less-than perfect black?

 

[SableSteel]

Orange kits are agouti based, so the first generation you'd get chestnuts (usually with less than ideal ring definition). Blacks that carry non extension look the same as blacks that don't (EE)

 

[Jasuji]

My black with the orange was chin, black (self chin?) and chocolate. So I'm not understanding why all the kits should have been chestnut - if the orange had an "a" and the black was self black (or self chin), then I would get this mixture with a chocolate thrown in, right? One of them also has to have b for there to be a chocolate, right? Or is there something else going on. (I'm very new to these genetic puzzles)

 

[Shea]

What colors do you have right now? And do you know any of their pedigree?
To get chocolate both parents have to carry b it dosent show with only one.

This is a great reference for genotypes and the site has some very well written genetics articles.

http://www.thenaturetrail.com/rabbit-ge ... pes-chart/

 

[Jasuji]

Thanks! I love that site. It's very helpful. I am fascinated by the genetics, but am clearly struggling to understand.
Yes, I have the pedigrees. They have a large mixture of colors that I can't sort out. Not sure if it's OK to send pedigrees with rabbitry names on them without permission. Breedings to date are:

Black doe (A) + Blue otter buck (C) = Black silver Marten, black (self chin?) and an off-color lilac-blue himi (himi-marten?)
Black doe (A) + orange buck (D) = Chin, black (self chin?), chocolate
(So that makes me think the black doe (A) is also black self chin, not pure black)
Then a different black doe (B) with same orange buck (D) = black, cinnamon, himi
That second black doe (B) with himi buck (E) = black, blue, REW, himi

I'm guessing these genes:
Black doe (A) is aaBbc(chd)_D_ E_
Black doe (B) is aaBbCcD_E_
Blue otter buck (C) is ataB_ C_ dd E_
Orange buck (D) is AaBbCc D ee
Himi buck (E) is aaBb c(ch)c D_E_

So I didn't get any chestnut out of the whole bunch.

 

[Shea]

You end up with chestnut when nothing is compatible A_B_C_D_E_ Orange whould be chestnut with nonextension, so if you get an orange kit both parents carry at least 1 e and doninate colors everywhere else.

I find it helps to write it all out, that way you can map and track what went where and who it came from.
This is a chart I made for 2 of mine. I dont have their pedigrees but I know what Aster has thrown from previous litter and been able to work backwards from there. Same with Keller I know that since he threw opals and a chestnut that he is Dd.


p.s. Chalk and a sealed concrete floor make a Great work surface!

 

[Jasuji]

Love your "chalkboard" idea.

You make perfect sense with the A B C D with or without extension. That's an easy way to think of it.