Open vrs Closed Rabbitry

[GetYourGoat]

Not sure if this is the place to put this..but here goes anyway

I'll be building out the structures that will make up my rabbitry over the next couple of weeks (if good weather). I'll be putting time into this to make sure everything looks and functions nicely to the point where I won't mind if people want to come and look at my rabbits any time. I know lots of people advertise that their rabbitry is closed so they won't let anyone in due to possible viruses etc...but my thoughts run along the lines of when you bring a rabbit to the show, that's exposing it to waaay more possible contaminants than if a random person looked at the rabbit through a cage.

Is the closed rabbitry setup just more that people don't want others to see how their rabbits are living etc? Or is there actually a viable reason as to why no one should be allowed in my rabbitry?

Thanks in advance for any answers/thoughts ^_^ (and mods, please feel free to move if this isn't the right place)

 

[Sinnfox]

A big reason for some (myself included) is AR/PETA people...there are some that will act normal and be nice as can be...then come back later when you aren't around and steal your rabbits...or make up things about you to get you in trouble and use it as an excuse to get your animals taken from you. Even if there is no proof that anything was ever wrong. Even if you try to fight it, they will have already altered any animals they could and adopted out as many as they could as fast as they could. It has happened several times :/ even to the point of them taking your cages due to them not having enough themselves in some cases Don't get me wrong, there are some really nice people, and odds of you bumping into one of the bad ones may not be huge, but at least to me it just isn't worth the risk.

Also please be aware that some normal rabbitry practices that are ment for the health and safety of your rabbits are viewed differently by pet people. They will use things you do for the good of your animals against you. o.o it is crazy but it can and sadly does happen :/

There are other reasons, but fear is enough of one for me at least to go with closed.

 

[Dood]

If i lived in Southern BC my rabbitry would be a very tighy closed one.

This provence is the unofficial animal rights capital of Canada with a large population of extreme left wing AR activists and intollerant vegans. The BC SPCA does not approve of "culling" even though the feral rabbits are a big problem in the Provence and heavily promotes the House Rabbit Society's mandate which is anti breeding and promotes vetting and neutering everything

This is probably why the breeder you got your rabbit from keeps their stock in a secret location so activists posing as buyers cannot cause trouble for them by "liberating" and "setting free" their rabbits or by making false complaints with authorities.

 

[DogCatMom]

While building out your rabbitry enclosure/shed/barn, be sure to give some thought to physical security: surveillance cameras, motion lights, locks, etc. At least one breeder on this list has found it necessary to put locks on individual rabbits' cages for their security.

Although I acquired my one and only rabbit through a shelter, I learned fairly soon into the process that he had been the herd sire/buck for a back-yard (literally) meat operation within city limits (not legal) *and* that the rabbits were in full sun without shade or water on a 108-degree F (approx. 42 deg C) June day. The Animal Control and City Shelter personnel didn't have the resources to cope with 48 or so rabbits (by my count, this could have been 1 buck, 4 to 6 does, and several litters of kits/grow-outs, so a fairly small operation), so they called in the local chapter of the House Rabbit Society. Much was made of this incident--major media exposure on both TV and newspaper, probably Internet as well (although most of the Internet coverage had been archived by the time I came on the scene three months later)--and then there was another large acquisition of 52 rabbits about a week or two ago in the San Francisco Bay Area, when someone sold out of rabbits completely and a Rescuer *sigh* bought them.

When it looked (last July) as though I might be able to adopt a rescued Angora from the local HRS, I went to visit the "Angora" rabbit and was force-fed their "How to Live with a House Rabbit" DVD. They shoved it into the player not 2 feet from the ex-pen where I was sitting with the (definitely NOT Angora) rabbit. Among other points, the DVD showed ONE rabbit running through a large living room without let or hindrance while a standard heterosexual couple with one child watched adoringly. Although there was a white (!) carpet and light-colored furniture in the DVD, there were no bunny berries.... The voice-over kept talking about how the rabbit (in the singular) needed 3 to 4 hours of free time to run in the house or supervised in a yard/pen outdoors every day and that it needed to have certain kinds of housing, certain sizes of housing, preferably a room where it could have a calm atmosphere... The DVD said everything but "each rabbit needs its own bedroom." I found it pretty yucky, personally: housing costs in the Bay Area are terrible; there was a story in today's paper (both print and online) about how the average rent is now $2,000+/month for an apartment. People are bunk-bedding their kids, jamming their offices into their kitchens and living rooms, and sleeping in I don't know what-all just to keep a roof over their heads.

And the HRS and its allies want each rabbit practically to have its own bedroom??? and they wonder why rabbits stay at the fosters and the HRS and other rabbit rescues so very long???

They do not get the connection between their ideals (requirements, actually) and the rabbits who live for months, sometimes years, in fosterage. But they keep pushing the "plenty of space to run free in the house" idea. :shock:

If this type of...individual...finds that you have multiple rabbits IN CAGES OH MY GOD and that they LIVE in the cages, I wouldn't give much for the security of those rabbits unless you've planned ahead of time.

Search this site for terms like "ARAs" (Animal Rights Activists), "PETA" (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals--although their "Ethics" are worth an entire discussion in and of themselves), "theft," "security," "biosecurity," and others as they come to your mind.

Although all rabbits deserve shade and plenty of water, and I learned much later that the owners of my rabbit and his fellows had been warned and worked with previously by Animal Control, I am still haunted by the thought that a family of 14 living in one house in a large California city (NOT in the Bay Area) lost their probable source of protein last June.... :|

 

[MaggieJ]

It is true that people who show rabbits run a higher risk of their rabbits contracting a disease at a show than from a random visitor, but not all (or even most) RT members show their rabbits. Those that don't often prefer to reduce these disease risks to almost zero by keeping a closed rabbitry. Some show rabbit people even go so far as to keep their active show rabbits in isolation from their breeding stock in order to minimize the risk of spreading disease. When you have worked for years to develop really good show rabbits, it makes good sense to protect those genetics as much as possible.

It is true that there is a risk of ARA intervention or well-meaning if uninformed people submitting a complaint because they don't understand rabbit husbandry but even apart from this there are other risks: undisciplined neighbour children who will go in and "play" with the rabbits, let them out to run around or even decide to take one home. "They have so many they'll never miss one." We have had several members have rabbits lost or stolen in this fashion.

Preferring privacy and security for one's rabbits by maintaining a closed rabbitry has nothing to do with "hiding" how they are raised. It has everything to do with keeping our rabbits healthy and safe.

 

[skysthelimit]

I do it for the reasons MaggieJ stated.

My show stock is in QT after shows, just like any other new bun I bring home.

Because I have poop boards, sometimes it just doesn't look as tidy as it could be.

Also, because I live in the city, I am open to all sorts of people just walking up on the property when I'm not home. Several people have had their cars and garages vandalized since I moved here, and I've been in the barn, and have had kids come up to the fence to see the dogs (bad move), or peek in the windows. I even had a bunny removed from the property last year by one of the neighbors kids. The radio is left on in the barn, cars are left in the driveway, and dogs move around to make the house/barn look occupied even when I am not home.

 

[Prisma]

I prefer closed for reasons already listed. However, I don't know if there is more risk at a show or not vs some one coming in as at least at a show you know and expect people to have healthy animals there. I know that's not always the case, why every thing that goes to a show is QT here too after every show and any new ones as well go into QT. Having one person with one illness or parasite on them infecting the entire herd is much worse than my show string being infected/ill due to some one being careless or an accident at a show. Have to remember its not just touch that can be a problem, people walk on who knows what and shoes/cloths/etc will carry things with out us even knowing it. Its not any less upsetting or worrisome, but it affects less overall. Upsetting mothers and very young kids is not some thing I wish to risk, my rabbits mean more to me than some one's personal wants. It also keeps me from having to tell people no, I'm not selling so and so just these two etc. Not every one knows about livestock either, nor how to actually behave around them even when told how to and then when you ask them to leave you're faced with a very unhappy person that knows where you live, where you keep things, what locks and securities you have, and may just make that call to make you trouble or come back to take what they want. No sale or visit is worth loosing every thing I have just because I didn't agree with some one else.

 

[Marinea]

I live in about as rural a setting as you can, and my rabbitry is closed.

It has nothing to do with my husbandry practices (all my rabbits are well cared for) and everything to do with the spreading zealotry of some people in regards to animal "rights". Even out here in the boondocks, where most people don't give you a second glance when you mention meat rabbits, there are some people, usually urban transplants, who give me pause (paws?).

A phenomenon happening out here is urban people selling up and moving to the country to live a "simple life". They talk about growing vegetables and raising animals, but then they seem to want us "country folk" to change our ways to match what they are used to back in the city. They come out here and start pushing for HOAs, zoning changes, and other things that make me scratch my head. These are the people who have made me have a closed rabbitry.

I don't want the aggravation, I don't want to have to deal with an animal control officer who most likely does not know much about rabbits, and I certainly don't want to end up on the news for protecting my property from an unreasonable search and/or seizure. But that's me.

 

[Featherhoof]

Yup. That's why I have decided not to sell any of my rabbits at all. I run a clean operation, but only for myself and my family. I trade and barter with those whom I know and that's it. No money exchange. No craigslist crazies are welcome here. No strangers. It's better for me this way.

 

[Zass]

I usually let breeders I'm familiar with in to see all my buns. They know to keep their hand to themselves and I haven't had any disease issues stem from it.

Pet buyers...no way. They do stupid stuff...like bring their toddlers. They don't understand why the rabbits aren't all housed inside. Grow out fryers sharing a cage look "crowded" adults with their own big cage look "lonely." The fact that they are in a cage at all sometimes means your a bad person. There is just no help for some of those people. :roll:

The worst part is that they get really pissy when I refuse to sell them rabbits, and they know where I live.

 

[ckcs]

As all of my rabbit are inside my house, my rabbitry is basically open. About 2/3rds are relatively plain view once you are inside. I sell almost exclusively to the pet market. I've sold 75 or so rabbits over the past 18 months. All but 4 have been picked up at my house. Unless someone didn't want to come in, I invite people to come in. This gives them time to check out the rabbit or rabbits available, ask any questions and allows me to go over some things that are also listed on a sheet that I give to them. If people want to see the parents or our other rabbits I show them to them. I check food and water several times a day and all cages are cleaned twice a week. I do check the food and water before anyone comes over to make sure someone isn't out.

I have a pretty laid back approach to my rabbitry and while I look our for possible problems, I don't worry about stuff that hasn't happened. I don't have any desire to cart my rabbits to a parking lot somewhere to have people look at them. The three major concerns people seems to have are personal safety, rabbit safety and AR people. Here are my views on each, everyone should of course do what works best for them.

Personal Safety - I don't worry about this. I think stranger danger is blown out of proportion. You are about 40% safer today than you were 20 years ago. Craiglist is a common avenue for sales. Since we are talking bunnies, I'm not concerned at all about being a target. I'm 6'2" and 300 lbs, most people seem more worried about me than I am of them. My wife has no desire to deal with the bunny folks so no transactions happen without me. I've yet to meet anyone that creeped me out. I haven't had any problems with unruly children either.

Rabbit Safety - 5 years and I've had no disease. I did recently purchase a trio of French Angoras that developed a bald spot on their necks. I thought it might be fur mites but had no evidence to support that. They are fine now. I don't let people handle any rabbits other than the babies. If I ever have a problem then I'll address, until then I won't worry about it.

AR people - I'm 40 miles from PETA headquarters. I honestly can't recall reading about or hearing about a problem around here and I've lived here for 25 years. Until 4 years ago I live 20 miles from their headquarters. I can certainly find crazy stories online but have never met anyone in real life that directly had anything crazy happen with AR people. Even online it's usually a friend of a friend, but there have been incidents on RT with AR people.

Again this is just my views based on my experiences.

 

[Sinnfox]

Personal Safety - I don't worry about this. I think stranger danger is blown out of proportion. You are about 40% safer today than you were 20 years ago. Craiglist is a common avenue for sales. Since we are talking bunnies, I'm not concerned at all about being a target. I'm 6'2" and 300 lbs, most people seem more worried about me than I am of them. My wife has no desire to deal with the bunny folks so no transactions happen without me. I've yet to meet anyone that creeped me out. I haven't had any problems with unruly children either.

If you have the ability to appear intimidating then by all means that is a good way to help insure your safety. For less intimidating people (like myself ..smallish harmless looking female) stranger danger is rather important to remember. I have been attacked before, and my home broken into several times (until we got some very large dogs). My husband is about as intimidating as I am and has been mugged just coming home. I live in a not so great neighborhood though so I doubt most would have quite so many bad experiences. I only mention it so you can be aware that if your not in as safe a place to be aware that unless you have the intimidation factor working for you a healthy dose of caution is always a good idea. :/

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

well,, if someone is buying a rabbit from me.. I let them see my rabbits ,, I have nothing to hide and I am very proud of my rabbits.. My rabbit are well taken care of and I love talking about rabbits and explaining and showing what and how I do it.. But I only let the ones that have contacted me for a rabbit and I have talked to back and forth are the ones that are let in. For example.. I have a lady coming back to buy a buck from me next week.. as she was here before.. I will let her in no problem. .. I like showing off my rabbits

 

[michaels4gardens]

My rabbitry is closed to "outside rabbits", and uninvited people. -once a rabbit has left my place it can not come back-- ever- no exceptions, even if it has only been gone for a day or two. --The concern for me, is disease-- just one bunny "who just visited a friend for a few min" could cause an epidemic and disaster at my place. I have heard of ,and been involved in, pasturella outbreaks, in rabbitrys, from people who did not admit their "bunny" had visited a friends "bunny" for a few min.
Another person I heard about visited her friend [with her "bunny" along] her friend just happened to live on a hog farm, she then decided to take her "bunny" back to the breeder because it bit her, most of the rabbits at the breeder rabbitry dropped dead-- why-- pseudorabies-- just hearing about this made me worried-and- I never even found out if it was a true story.

 

[Zass]

If you have the ability to appear intimidating then by all means that is a good way to help insure your safety. For less intimidating people ...

This is a great point. I'm 5'3, under 120 lbs, and female.
That basic reality is definitely going to influence my opinion of what is and isn't OK.
Even if statistics say I'm in very little danger, my instincts tell me not to put myself in a situation where something could happen to begin with. Most smallish people feel this to some degree, and it probably helps keep those statistics low!
I could sum it up as not feeling very comfortable with strangers in my home or on my property, especially when my husband is working.

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

I like to mention that I did forgot in my posting.. Even tho I do allow people in my rabbitry.. Once a rabbit is gone to a new home.... I will not take a rabbit back no matter what the reason is... So I guess I can say.,, that I am closed rabbitry for rabbits are concerned but open to people.

 

[GetYourGoat]

Thank you everyone for your replies so far! It has really helped me to nail down how I want to run my rabbitry in this regard.

Though I'm small (110lbs, 5'5") I'm not worried about my personal safety as pretty much my whole family is always home and my rabbitry will be located down the side of the house. Same goes for people coming to pillage the rabbitry, we're getting a big dog in a few weeks and my whole family works from home so it is very rare not to have someone here. Our neighbours are a couple acres away from us on both sides with forestry so I don't need to worry about them being nosy either.

As for the health of the rabbits, I will definitely quarantine any new bunnies. I don't mind people coming through and looking, but no touchy (with the exception of babies who will be sold).

I'm not worried about AR people either. The designs for the hutches that I'm thinking of now are about 8 square feet, stacked, on wire, with trays underneath. I'm not skimping on the housing either, I want to do a really nice job. I'll also be building a couple of day runs so I can have rabbits rotating out with enough room to run and jump. I know that some people would still regard this as inhumane because -le gasp- cages! But theoretically, my rabbits would have more room than most house rabbits.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I think open versus closed depends on your personal location and your market. I would guess that pet people are more problematic to deal with than meat or show buyers.

My rabbitry is open. I have only sold to people interested in starting a meat rabbit program, so their mindset is naturally different from those looking for pets. However, I also breed and sell dogs, and have had many more puppy buyers than rabbit buyers here, and even they are impressed by the rabbitry. In fact, a couple of my puppy buyers have also bought freshly killed rabbit from me, and watched the process!

I enjoy showing off my rabbits and my setup. I also love spending time with the buyers discussing husbandry and showing them how to trim nails, sex kits, check for breeding readiness, breed, and even butcher rabbits.

Kern County is an agricultural area, so ARA's are not a high portion of the population here.

I am not very worried about theft, as we are usually home. On the rare occasions that we aren't, any intruders would have to run the gauntlet of seven dogs, and we have very aware neighbors that would notice a strange vehicle on the (dirt) road. We live in a very rural and geographically isolated area, 50 miles Northeast of Bakersfield, so I doubt most people would make the effort to "rescue" my rabbits. They would need a large vehicle or vehicles to cart them all off, which isn't exactly "stealthy" in my neck of the woods.

Disease transmission from visitors is also not something I am overly concerned with. I take my rabbits to shows frequently, and feel that they are exposed to far more there (even asymptomatic animals can spread disease, after all) than what might be carried in on a visitor.

 

[skysthelimit]

Rabbit Safety - 5 years and I've had no disease. I did recently purchase a trio of French Angoras that developed a bald spot on their necks. I thought it might be fur mites but had no evidence to support that. They are fine now. I don't let people handle any rabbits other than the babies. If I ever have a problem then I'll address, until then I won't worry about it.

I went to one show last year, and afterwards lost 90% of all my kits, and in total 65% of my rabbitry. Yes this worries me, almost enough to stop showing. If I make it to Mini Convention, I'll be the lady who wipes off the table and sprays ACV over everything, no matter how silly I look.

 

[ckcs]

I went to one show last year, and afterwards lost 90% of all my kits, and in total 65% of my rabbitry. Yes this worries me, almost enough to stop showing. If I make it to Mini Convention, I'll be the lady who wipes off the table and sprays ACV over everything, no matter how silly I look.

I wouldn't think it is silly at all. I don't know how widespread experiences like yours are but seems to me given the environment of shows that it would be fairly common. I went to my first show last month. I was totally shocked. It was at a fire station and there where 300 or so rabbits in a very small area. Then there are the judges that handle all of the rabbits plus the judging holes were shared by dozens of rabbits. The did pre inspect rabbits but that won't catch early stages of things IMO. Despite my laid back attitude, showing is a concern for me should I do it in the future.