NZW weights at 4 weeks?

[Dood]

You can weigh a 8 oz can of tomatoes or beans etc... to see if your scale is accurate

What type of hay are you feeding?

I don't think you'd be close to the 18% protein recommended for growing kits with the diet you described and certainly not with a grass hay, an alfalfa or clover hay would be a better choice to boost protein levels

And don't be too discouraged, if these are your first rabbits it will take a few generations to develop your bloodline to grow well on a non-pellet diet as nearly all of today's breeds are raised on commercial pellets and have been selected to decades to grow well on this feed

 

[grumpy]

My goals in raising rabbits are based on several criteria.

The first is often the most difficult: Finding above average
commercial stock and obtaining them. There's a lot of junk
out there for sale which should NEVER be for sale.

Second: Consistency.... Stock that continually has 8 or more
kits and keeps them alive. Stock that is easily bred and has a
near perfect score on conception. If a young, healthy doe misses
twice in my herd..............She's gone. I run 250-300 litters per
year through my rabbitry...and I don't have, nor will I take the
time fooling with a doe that chooses not to cooperate.

Third: Milk production that is genetically inherent from one generation
to the next. With little to NO help from me. Other than a good
pellet, a good hay, and clear, clean water.

Don't base your success or failure on a handful of litters. If you
find you're not getting the results you want, consider buying
different stock from a breeder that has the "type" of stock that
matches or exceeds your ideals. If a breeder is worth their salt,
they'll know what pairings to sell you. Be it a pair, trio, or more,
they'll be able to advance you light years ahead of where you're
at now.

The quickest way to make the biggest impact on your herd, is
through the genetics of a superior buck. He's 50% of your herd.
Line-breeding him back to his daughter's, then his grand-daughter's
will exponentially improve each generation. Find the genetics that
you desire, then compact them for two or more generations and
cull hard. You'll get where you want to go in short order.

Grumpy.

There's a fella down in Louisiana that has a rabbitry with my
stock in it. He's on this forum, Sixrivers, is his handle.

 

[lereg15]

You can weigh a 8 oz can of tomatoes or beans etc... to see if your scale is accurate

What type of hay are you feeding?

I don't think you'd be close to the 18% protein recommended for growing kits with the diet you described and certainly not with a grass hay, an alfalfa or clover hay would be a better choice to boost protein levels

And don't be too discouraged, if these are your first rabbits it will take a few generations to develop your bloodline to grow well on a non-pellet diet as nearly all of today's breeds are raised on commercial pellets and have been selected to decades to grow well on this feed

I'll try weighing a can later on today to see if the scale is accurate or not.

I'm not really sure what kind of hay it is, ( kind of embarrassing to say), but I get it from a guy that raises horses. It's kind of brown, so I wouldn't think it would be alfalfa. I will ask him the next time I see him.

The pellets I feed is only 16%, so I'll have to find another source of protein from somewhere, it looks like.

As frustrating as this has been, I guess it's just a learning experience that most first time breeders go through. I was hoping that it was going to go a little more smoothly.

Second: Consistency.... Stock that continually has 8 or more
kits and keeps them alive. Stock that is easily bred and has a
near perfect score on conception. If a young, healthy doe misses
twice in my herd..............She's gone. I run 250-300 litters per
year through my rabbitry...and I don't have, nor will I take the
time fooling with a doe that chooses not to cooperate.


Since this was their first kindlings, I though that it was decent that one had 7 and the other had 6. Between that and their age, 4 1/2 months, I figured it wasn't a bad number. We'll see on the next batch how they do.

Thank you all for your help!! As frustrating as it is, it's easier with all of you helping out.

I just weighed a 16 oz can and it weighed 12.6 oz, so I guess my scale is off. Even though my kits are still underweight, I don't think they are as bad as I originally thought. I plan on getting some BOSS today to help them out with the protein, and possibly some alfalfa too. Hopefully it will help!!

 

[Dood]

Oh dear I miss read your post and thought you said you were just feeding oats and hay :doh:

16% pellets should be fine, they may take a bit longer to grow out but not significantly so, hopefully it is just that your scale is off :shrug:

I think genetics rather than food is the issue.

What are the weights of the parents?

Did you buy your rabbits from a reputable breeder who focuses on meat and/or production traits and/or shows(and wins ) in the Meat Pen competitions?

 

[Zass]

The pellets I feed is only 16%, so I'll have to find another source of protein from somewhere, it looks like.

I've gotten some excellent growth on 16% protein pellets. I mean, better than a lot of people have reported on 18%. I've gotten 5 lbs at 8 weeks, and a lot more consistently, 5 lbs at 9 weeks.
It makes me think 18% protein is probably necessary for commercial style meat production, you know, where does are bred intensively, but not that big of a deal on a backyard level.

The only brand of 18% protein pellets I have available is manna pro GRO formula, and whatever mill produces it keeps screwing up. The result being dead kits and poor growth, so..I can't say my kits grew any better or faster on 18%, but it may have had everything to do with the mill. :shrug:

I agree with Grumpy in general about the does not needing to be babied along. They shouldn't need herbs to trigger or increase lactation. Their bodies should do that on their own with out help.
I'm not really sure how effective they are in that regard, but, I bet the fresh greens are very good for their bodies.

According to this webpage:
http://www.therabbithouse.com/diet/rabb ... arison.asp
The purina brand pellets I buy are actually considered deficient in fats for a pet rabbit. All of the numbers on there are geared towards pets and not breeding animals.

The fact that they are not really nutritionally complete for breeding animals is a sacrifice I'm willing to make for the complete disappearance of mucoid enteritis from my herd.

But, it only makes sense to me to supplement dietary oils to a lactating doe with a large litter. I really wish that chart included more of the meat rabbit brands, since everything is broken down so neatly.

 

[FourRingCircus]

My first two litters were out of a smaller mixed breed buck and weighed 13-14 oz at 4 weeks. The newest batch of what I assume to be pure NZW (no pedigrees) are looking so much bigger right off the bat! Really curious to see their 4 weeks weights in comparison. I am tracking the average weights for litters to see who produces what (but currently only have one buck). It will be interesting to see what they truly weigh since it appears your scale is off. I need to weigh my adults, but haven't taken the time yet (it's too stinkin' hot). And you never know how they'll grow over the next couple of months either...

 

[lereg15]

Oh dear I miss read your post and thought you said you were just feeding oats and hay :doh:

16% pellets should be fine, they may take a bit longer to grow out but not significantly so, hopefully it is just that your scale is off :shrug:

I think genetics rather than food is the issue.

What are the weights of the parents?

Did you buy your rabbits from a reputable breeder who focuses on meat and/or production traits and/or shows(and wins ) in the Meat Pen competitions?

Actually Dood, I think I may have bred them too early. According to my scale, which is off, the does only weighed about 6.5 lbs, and the bucks were about 8.

I actually started the whole rabbit thing so my granddaughter could have a pet, and for food. I am now regretting my decision to just go with a couple of breeders that I found on FB, so they're not exactly reputable, plus they were cheap enough to where I could start off quicker. Once I start filling the freezer and maybe selling a few, I now plan on going to an actual breeder to get better stock. I guess it's another learning experience, that I should have learned already before I bought the first bucks. Apparently, they are all full blooded, but the genetics may be off somewhat.


Zass, this is what I am currently feeding, but I don't like the soybean stuff in it, nor do I like the meal in food. http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/m ... food-50-lb .

I'll have to look into the dietary oils to see if that may help!!

Heritage, this is true about how they will eventually grow, although my older ones didn't really seem to be that big when I got them. I was thinking that it may have been the food they were on, but as others have stated, it's probably genetics.

I did pick up some alfalfa hay and some BOSS today and fed it to them to see if that helps at all. I needed more oats, but I got stupid and forgot about them, oops. I will be trying to find an accurate scale somewhere to see what the buns and kits actually weigh, but for now, all I can do is supplement them to see how they react to it. I can't seem to find any fresh dill or fennel for the does around here, so I might Have to grow some, I guess.

 

[Zass]

I don't like the corn in the purina either, but...

The important thing is just finding whatever feed (or combination of feeds) your rabbits will thrive on, and sticking with it.
Never change feed on weanlings if possible.
Adding alfalfa isn't a change, since it's an ingredient in the pellets.
I like supplementing some of that to growing fryers as well.

BOSS is too rich for my weanlings though, so I never feed it to those.
When they steal too much from a doe, it tends to trigger cecotrope overproduction.

 

[alforddm]

There are some advantages to having smaller rabbits. For one thing the adults eat less. Adult rabbits are easier to handle and you don't have to worry about poop being to big to fit through the floor wire.

My rabbits are small also. My smallest doe is 5lb 2oz and the largest is 6lb 13oz. My grow outs are averaging around d 4lbs 12 weeks. They still eat good. I'm starting to transition them over to more foraged items and they seem to be handling that well.

 

[FourRingCircus]

There are some advantages to having smaller rabbits. For one thing the adults eat less. Adult rabbits are easier to handle and you don't have to worry about poop being to big to fit through the floor wire.

My rabbits are small also. My smallest doe is 5lb 2oz and the largest is 6lb 13oz. My grow outs are averaging around d 4lbs 12 weeks. They still eat good. I'm starting to transition them over to more foraged items and they seem to be handling that well.

I have a couple NZWs (not sure on their weight, but the bigger ones that I have) that are stained b/c of poop not falling through and then them laying on it :roll:

 

[lereg15]

I don't like the corn in the purina either, but...

The important thing is just finding whatever feed (or combination of feeds) your rabbits will thrive on, and sticking with it.
Never change feed on weanlings if possible.
Adding alfalfa isn't a change, since it's an ingredient in the pellets.
I like supplementing some of that to growing fryers as well.

BOSS is too rich for my weanlings though, so I never feed it to those.
When they steal too much from a doe, it tends to trigger cecotrope overproduction.

That's good to know!! I'll be watching them closer then! <br /><br /> -- Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:57 pm -- <br /><br /> Update on the kits weights. They have almost doubled in size since I have last posted. Although, I'm using the same scale, which is off, I still find this very promising. I haven't noticed them nursing at all and plan to move them into their own grow-out cages, probably on Mon, or whenever I get the cages built. Expecting 2 more litters on Sun!! Hopefully they will grow quicker since I changed my hay over to alfalfa, it seemed to help with the other kits!!

Thank you all for your advice, once again!!

 

[wamplercathy]

I may have to get some BOSS then. I wish i could get a second opinion with the scale!! I'm not sure where I could put my hay, but the pellets are in a rubbermaid container. It has been raining for the last week or so, so maybe I should get another bale of hay?

This is a learning process for me and I just want to get it right. It makes me think that all the research that I done just wasn't enough, .

If you got the space I advise a dead freezer. :lol: Not kidding. That's were my hay and feed is at and the humidity in Missouri this time of year can cause a fish to drown. :lol: :lol:

The Self-Reliant Homestead: A Book of Country Skills Paperback – October 13, 2003
by Charles A. Sanders (pg 51) (http://www.amazon.com/Self-Reliant-Home ... +homestead)

Book has all types of nifty redneck tricks.

 

[TF3]

Growing up we used an old freezer for feed, too.
I remember having to give it a kick before opening to run off the mice... either that or open the lid a little, toss in the cat and then wait a few minutes

 

[wamplercathy]

Growing up we used an old freezer for feed, too.
I remember having to give it a kick before opening to run off the mice... either that or open the lid a little, toss in the cat and then wait a few minutes

I haven't had that problem. :x But we packed the drain with steel wool and topped it off with some spray foam. So unless they make a mouse pyramid they aint getten in. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[TF3]

Fort Knox! Wow!
But so many good memories we had... Like watching a duck grab one fleeing mouse and swallow it whole.
Still one of the most bizarre things I have seen!

 

[lereg15]

Never thought about a freezer. I've been keeping my food in a rubber made container, and it seems to be working good so far. We do have a cat plus several others that roam the area, so rats and mice aren't a problem here...so far.