Not cocci... (autopsy results)

[Zass]

My husband and I have a very long and very difficult conversation about the weak velveteen kit.

We decided euthanasia was the kindest route. Partially because of disease risk (it was stressing my husband quite a bit, since she had been caged with the sneezer), but mainly because we didn't want to cause her harm and still have to cull her if we did turn up something that may be infectious. It seemed...too cruel.

With what I found, I'm not sure if I made the right decision or not. But at least we know she wasn't allowed to suffer. I posted what we found on here in case it helps someone else.

What do you guys make of this liver? It's not the cheesy puss pockets of cocci. The white...things were held together well and could be removed intact. There was no pus inside them. Could they be fatty deposits from her almost starving repeatedly? Or is there something more going on? She never did metabolize her food properly, but always had a slender look. Not like the bloated bellies rabbits infected with cocci.

The lump looked like a cyst. (Perhaps an inflated gland or node?) I opened it and took a picture to show you the contents. I believe I could have taken that out from under her skin without it being too traumatic for the rabbit. Or just left it there. An x ray or a biopsy from a vet might have been able to sort that out.

 

[MR_ND]

I'm sorry you had to cull her. I'm not much help with what it could be though, sorry.

 

[Miss M]

The lump looks like a benign cyst to me.

The liver... if that's not coccidiosis, I have no idea what it is. I have seen pictures of white spots on a liver that were not cocciciosis, but they did not resemble coccidiosis at all. Those pictures look like they could be coccidiosis, to me. But it sounds like maybe you know more about it. I've seen only one cocci liver, and I did not excise or open any of the white nodules. They felt pretty solid, not pus-filled. But they could have been pus-filled, and just felt solid, I suppose.

Whatever is going on with that liver, I think it's good that you put her down. It looks like it would have been a long, lingering, slow failing of health.

 

[Zass]

I've had a few livers from my cocci experiment. (rabbits raised on the ground VS rabbits raised in wire cages, I still need to make a post about that) They do look very similar, but the white spots were all filled with cheesy pus that looked exactly like any other type of rabbit pus. The overall appearance of the infected kits was different too, with bloated bellies and a wasted look.
cocci livers:

Faelee was always thin, skinny even, but not bloated or wasted. She did have diarrhea once, and then suffered gi stasis almost directly afterwards. (leading into her second round of hand feeding)

It is possible that there is some amount of cocci and something else going on too. But those long lumpy bits on the top liver aren't solid feeling, they are mushy, stretchy. Reminding me more of fat and connective tissue than pus. None of the white lumps I cut in that liver had any pus. Where all of the white lumps in the cocci livers were full of white pus and only that.
I don't know if the greenish color inside the lumps on the top liver is coming up on everyone's computer, but there was definitely some green in there when I cut one open.


I think your right too Miss M. Finding a home for her would have been like pushing a problem that I created onto someone else. She was on borrowed time from the start. A "something wrong inside" kit that most wouldn't have nursed along this far. Fear of a lingering death was also part of what motivated us to cull VS try and treat.

What I've found will definitely help me decide how best to treat future rabbits in my herd.

 

[Miss M]

Okay, thank you. They do look very similar... I'm not really seeing green, but it does look discolored. I thought it had just oxidized.

 

[Zass]

Okay, thank you. They do look very similar... I'm not really seeing green, but it does look discolored. I thought it had just oxidized.

Nothing had oxidized. In all pictures the livers are very fresh. It's a shame I didn't have better lighting on the cocci livers though.

I adjusted the exposure on the cocci livers a bit, maybe it will be easier to see:

 

[Miss M]

Oh, that does help, but I didn't mean those livers. I thought you were talking about the first picture, and maybe I was mistaking the top right portion of that picture as being the "green" you were talking about. I dunno. I'm confused now. :lol:

Either way, I think you did the right thing.

 

[Marinea]

Zass, I am so sorry you had to put down the bun.

I agree that you did the right thing. Something was obviously not right with her. I thank you for posting these pics, as I am sure they will help people down the road. I can only imagine how difficult your decision was.

*hugs*

 

[Zass]

Oh, that does help, but I didn't mean those livers. I thought you were talking about the first picture, and maybe I was mistaking the top right portion of that picture as being the "green" you were talking about. I dunno. I'm confused now. :lol:

Either way, I think you did the right thing.

Yeah, the top right cut in the first liver had the green stuff. I just wanted the cocci livers to come in more clearly for comparison. They do look really similar. I raised the velveteens inside on a solid floor, and although I tried to keep it very clean, it's still very possible they had some cocci exposure.
Next time we will keep them on clean wire as a measure of insurance against that.

Thank you, everyone for your support!

Somehow, the sweet little velveteens are a lot more difficult to work with than the big hardy meat rabbits that I am accustomed to. It's going to take some getting used to.