Not a great day

[matt77]

A while ago I posted a question and said my doe had 11 kits and not one survived, well she had her 2nd litter last night and none were alive out of the 10, we warmed them up this time with no luck. Let me explain what happened, she has her own kindling cage with a drop nest box, lots of food and water. About 4 days before kindling I lined the nest box with cardboard and put cardboard on the bottom, then I gave her a bunch of straw up top (not in the nest box) and some newspaper. She did not use any straw, it all went through the bottom and she ate some, she used the newspaper and some fur. Most of the babies were in the nest box, three were up top on the wire floor. I wondered if they were still born but one had wriggled his head through the wire so I knew they were alive. By time I got there they were all dead and mom looked kind of frantic. My other doe had a litter of 3 the day after and one did not make it. They are all young does, the one that lost the 10 kits has only been mated twice, the one that had 3 babies has only been mated this one time. I will give them whatever they need to make their nest, last time I tried pine shavings and straw and she didn't even use the box. They seem to like the drop boxes, they always sit in them. Maybe they're still young and need more experience? If all the kits had survived since I started I would have about 25 young ones and I currently have 3. I hope I'm not doing anything wrong to cause this. The road near our house is a little busy but they're a good 70 feet away from it and it's by no means a major highway, annoying harleys go by sometimes but that's it. No dogs to bug them, they have their own building I built them, it's well ventilated and clean, I get them pellets and they always have fresh water. The only other inhabitant in there is 3 noisy little quail but they've been in there for about 9 months so they should be used to their squawks.

Any ideas that can make me more successful?

Thanks,

Matt

 

[AmysMacdog]

Hi Matt, so sorry you are having such a hard time. Unfortunately being down here in Georgia, I'm probably not the person who could help much but I don't think the problem is related to road noise or the quail. What were the temperatures like when the babies were born?

 

[3mina]

Next time fill the nestbox with the straw, still lining it with the cardboard. It sounds like you've got newbie does. Sometimes it takes a few tries before they get it right. Breed them again right away and hope for the best.
Here hoping they get their act together.

 

[matt77]

Hi Matt, so sorry you are having such a hard time. Unfortunately being down here in Georgia, I'm probably not the person who could help much but I don't think the problem is related to road noise or the quail. What were the temperatures like when the babies were born?

It wasn't too cold, maybe -7 outside, in the shed it wouldn't even have gone below freezing. Plenty cold enough though too kill them if the babies don't have a good nest I'd imagine.<br /><br />__________ Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:53 pm __________<br /><br />

Next time fill the nestbox with the straw, still lining it with the cardboard. It sounds like you've got newbie does. Sometimes it takes a few tries before they get it right. Breed them again right away and hope for the best.
Here hoping they get their act together.

Last time I filled it with straw and made a hole down in it for her, then she had all her babies on the wire floor and wouldn't go near the straw

 

[Miss M]

Last time I filled it with straw and made a hole down in it for her, then she had all her babies on the wire floor and wouldn't go near the straw

Right, but that was her first time. This, her second time, she did have some in the nest... she just didn't make a good enough nest.

I agree with 3mina, next time I would do like you did the first time. Build the nest for her to an extent (you can even stick some saved fur or dryer lint in there or teased cotton balls before she kindles). Maybe give her some more material to play house with. Some does just take several tries to get it all right, which is why many breeders on here have a "3 strike" policy.

It sounds like if she can get all of her "i"s dotted and "t"s crossed, she could be a great mother!

You can indeed rebreed her right away. You can probably pull some of the fur on her belly pretty easily, as hormones cause the fur in the area to loosen around kindling time. You can save this fur to use in the future.

 

[matt77]

Last time I filled it with straw and made a hole down in it for her, then she had all her babies on the wire floor and wouldn't go near the straw

Right, but that was her first time. This, her second time, she did have some in the nest... she just didn't make a good enough nest.

I agree with 3mina, next time I would do like you did the first time. Build the nest for her to an extent (you can even stick some saved fur or dryer lint in there or teased cotton balls before she kindles). Maybe give her some more material to play house with. Some does just take several tries to get it all right, which is why many breeders on here have a "3 strike" policy.

It sounds like if she can get all of her "i"s dotted and "t"s crossed, she could be a great mother!

You can indeed rebreed her right away. You can probably pull some of the fur on her belly pretty easily, as hormones cause the fur in the area to loosen around kindling time. You can save this fur to use in the future.

Thank you, I will give it a try exactly like you said. What do you think? Should I use straw and wood shavings, just some straw? The straw is pretty course, maybe it's too rough for her? I will also put a heat lamp up next time so if for some reason she doesn't do a good job with the nest maybe they will live till I get there.

Thanks,

Matt

 

[JAA]

If the straw is that rough I would use hay instead. The bonus is the young bunnies can chew on it as they grow up.

 

[skysthelimit]

Sorry about your loss.

It doesn't seem like you are doing anything wrong, but these might seem like does that you might want to apply the three strikes rule to. I pull my nest boxes, so that emilinated some doe error, but I've got a strike on a first time doe that's pretty much trampling her nest box.

 

[Mickey328]

Instinct only goes so far for any species. Can you imagine how many human babies wouldn't make it if we didn't have our mothers and aunts and friends to help? You said she seemed a bit frantic so that makes me think she's trying but just doesn't quite know what to do nor how to do it...at least she's not just unconcernedly ignoring the whole thing. I'm sure it must be frustrating but as the other folk said, I'd give her another try...she did do better this time even if she didn't get it "right"...she may just have a bit longer learning curve than some

 

[3mina]

My personal preference is straw, I find it blends better with the fur and usually the doe will leave it in the nest.
It also keeps the nest drier.
Yes, this is why I use 3 strikes.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I line my nests with pine shavings, sometimes mixed with brown paper grocery bags that have been put through our document shredder. My favorite type of hay for the nests is Bermuda grass, but I also like to give them some straw because it is more rigid and helps maintain the shape of the nest. I stuff some hay in the nest, but also put some elsewhere in the cage for the does to gather up themselves- I feel that it is important to allow them that natural behavior, plus it is fun to watch!

Rather than using a heat lamp, I would recommend lining the bottom of the cage and a few inches up the sides with cardboard. Strew some shavings and straw on the floor in case any are born out of the nest.

I would rebreed immediately and hope for the best. It sounds like she is making progress toward a successful kindling.

 

[Miss M]

There are lots of right materials to use for a nest.

Shavings, straw, hay, shredded paper... I wouldn't use paper by itself, but the others can be used by themselves or in combination. I use hay only. I actually cannot find straw around here. :shrug:

 

[MamaSheepdog]

There are lots of right materials to use for a nest.

Shavings, straw, hay, shredded paper... I wouldn't use paper by itself, but the others can be used by themselves or in combination.

Very true! I have used hay only. I wouldn't use just shavings or paper though.

 

[matt77]

Ok all, thanks everyone for the great advice, I'll keep you posted on how it goes, I have another doe due in about a week. Cross your fingers!

Matt

 

[AmysMacdog]

Got my fingers crossed for ya' opcorn:

 

[Miss M]

I wouldn't use just shavings or paper though.

Yeah, true, shavings by themselves probably would not be a good idea.

 

[fogcity]

I cover the drop boxes with resting pads so they don't hang out in them whey they are not with a litter. http://bassequipment.com/Home/Plastic+Pans/#Relax Resting Board like others said probably just newbies. Keep trying