Non Vienna Snip?

[PSFAngoras]

has anyone ever had the occurance of a Vienna like white snip on the nose when they were certain that the parents of the rabbit in question do not carry Vienna?

I have a friend who I met recently who breeds French Angoras also. In a recent litter of kits, probably half of them were born with a Vienna like snip. I say Vienna like because she has no history of Vienna in her rabbits and she has not brought in new stock in something like 12 years I think she said.

I know that Vienna is a very crafty gene and can hide for multiple generations, but I would think that in as many years as she's been breeding her stock she should have had more evidence of a sport or perhaps even a few BEWs if it were indeed Vienna. Neither parents are first time rabbits and the snips are not a common occurance in her herd.

To add to the confusion she recently told me that they have grown out of the snips.

So does anyone have any experience with a non-Vienna white snip? Could it be something like the much hated 'star' that occurs in the silver based breeds such as SF and CD? Or perhaps the V gene has been present in the form of one white hair on the parents and has flown under the radar amidst the heavy breeding for the last so many years?

I'm just trying to help her understand her herd genetics a bit better and am a little lost since I have NO experience with Vienna.

Thanks!

 

[alforddm]

White markings occurs when pigment cells do not migrate to certain areas during development. Generally, they occur because a white marking mutation "breaks" the migration. However, it likely that minor mutations can occur that make markings more "likely". Studies in horses tend to show that these types of mutations have a compounding effect. So one alone will have no effect but several together will. They won't create as much white as a major white pattern, but as more of these minor mutations lineup, the more white develops. It is also possible that small white markings can occur randomly simply from conditions in the womb that affect how the cellular migration occurs. These effects can explain why clones of Smart Little Lena all have different white markings despite being clones of the same horse.

So, if this occurs in just one litter, I would probably just guess, that something occurred during development with that particule litter. If it's something that seems to reoccur, she has perhaps accidently lined up several "minor" white genes in her stock that normally don't express on their own.

Given your description I would also doubt Vienna, however, it can't be completely ruled out without breeding kits with white together several times.

 

[SableSteel]

There are some non-vienna white spotting genes. Mostly recessive. German angoras have white spotting a lot, so seeing it in french wouldn't surprise me too much. Vienna is very rare in french angoras (if it exists at all -- I forgot which angora breed has it, so I can't say for sure that french don't) so I would go on the assumption that it probably isn't vienna. Still isn't something you want in your line though.

 

[PSFAngoras]

I appreciate the feedback, it just didn't seem logical that Vienna could hide unknown for that long of a time. I will let her know what you guys think. im sure she'll be happy to know that it *likely* isn't Vienna. She is very honest with her rabbit sales and has been selling the litter as non-pedigreed woolers since they're not showable, but it will probably be a relief to not have to worry about Vienna.