new to colonies and need some advice

[DarayTala]

So I've been raising my rabbits up until now in some pretty good sized hutches. The three outside in hutches have about 12-14 square feet each, maybe a bit more. My two inside bunnies have cages that I believe are 9 square feet each, though I'm planning on moving them outside when I build more hutches. Two of my does lived together in one of the outdoor hutches for a while and seemed fairly peaceful until they reached breeding age. At that point, there was a bit of chasing around, so I separated them because I was warned that they might injure each other.

Now I'm planning on getting some more meat rabbits and would like to try raising them colony style. The problem is, though I've tried to research the topic quite a bit, I don't seem to have a clear picture of how it works. I apologize if some of my questions seem very simple or silly, I'm just quite confused.

Firstly, how many does do you usually keep in relation to bucks? Is it even possible to keep more than one buck if you have enough does or space?
How much space do you need for three to four does and one (or two if you can keep two bucks together) bucks?
If you have them in a large pen that you can move around your yard to provide forage, what do you provide for shelter?
What do you provide for nest boxes?
If the bottom of the pen is wire, with grass or dirt under it, do you need to put a wood floor in a nest box?
Do does usually re-breed right after they kindle, or do they wait for a while? If they do keep re-breeding, at what point should I take the buck out to give them a break?

Well, thats most of whats been buzzing around in my head so far. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[akane]

How many does you keep per buck depends how much space you have. It could be 2 or it could be 10. You want about 12x12 for 2-3does and a buck if you leaving offspring to growout with them. If you are removing them to a grow out pen you can get away with half that. You can keep 2 bucks but you want massive space and lots of does. I use 24x12' with 8-10 does when I have 2 or more bucks down or I do a buck only pen of 12x12' with lots of young bucks growing out to distract the mature ones.

Does will make their own breaks. They'll chase the buck off for a week, have a smaller litter, or there are times like in summer where bucks go sterile or winter when does won't breed. In the end rabbits make their own breaks and you don't need to manage that part of the colony. You just need to plan for it so you stock up the freezer before hand.

 

[MaggieJ]

Akane has given you excellent advice, but since each colony is different I thought I would answer your questions as well.

Firstly, how many does do you usually keep in relation to bucks?
Akane is right. It depends on the available space.
Is it even possible to keep more than one buck if you have enough does or space?
I don't recommend keeping more than one buck in a colony. Chances are good that they will fight, especially if they were not raised together. If you want more than one buck, an option would be to have two smaller colonies with one buck in each.
How much space do you need for three to four does and one (or two if you can keep two bucks together) bucks?
I agree with Akane. 12 foot square for 3-4 does and a buck. Mine is 8 feet square and normally I have only two does in it, plus their offspring.
If you have them in a large pen that you can move around your yard to provide forage, what do you provide for shelter?
I'd suggest trying an insulated box attached in one corner. It may be a bit awkward to provide proper nesting places in a moveable pen. Then you have concerns with predators and rabbits digging out. I find it easier and safer to have the rabbits in an indoor colony and bring the forage to them.
What do you provide for nest boxes?
In my colony, the rabbits have wooden nest tunnels - about three feet long and about 18 inches wide and high. They are a bit bigger than is necessary, but were a conversion from a communal nest box I had for chickens. The lids are hinged to allow for kit checks.
If the bottom of the pen is wire, with grass or dirt under it, do you need to put a wood floor in a nest box?
I would definitely put in a wood floor, to keep the nest dry and warm.
Do does usually re-breed right after they kindle, or do they wait for a while? If they do keep re-breeding, at what point should I take the buck out to give them a break?
I agree with Akane on this. The rabbits seem to make their own breaks, although I do keep an eye on their overall condition.

 

[tm_bunnyloft]

This is great informaiton. I am wondering how they will do in the winter months in an outdoor colony and what extra provisions that they may need for northern winters?

I have a 60 by 60 paddock that I am considering turning into a huge colony in the spring. Thinking I will make a smaller pen in the middle that I will feed and water in to make for easier catching of bunnies when it is needed.

Waiting until spring because I am still not sure on how I want to work the insulated nest boxes yet. <br /><br />__________ Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:53 pm __________<br /><br />So that would hold 144 does if we did 2 does for every 10 x 10 space. plus bucks plus their kits. I do not plan to have that many in that pen but at least I know I wont over crowd them in there. The meat mutts will love it.

 

[MaggieJ]

Bunnyloft, that is certainly a nice big paddock for them and they will love it. Predators are going to be a major concern. Not only coyotes and raccoons, but also hawks and owls.

Here's a link to a member's blog. I have not seen "Turtlehead" on either forum for a long time, but she kept a blog that has good information.
http://gardenplotter.com/rospo/blog/labels/rabbits.html

 

[akane]

I wouldn't put 100 rabbits altogether. You have to take personalities in to account and about 1 in every 20 rabbits takes issue to either 1 other rabbit or the whole colony idea and has to be penned with a few rabbit or caged completely. That's one reason we are dividing our 12x12 breeder side in to 6x6' pens with another 3x6' pen in the growout side. I'm finding smaller pens are easier to deal with than having the whole 12x24' colony which got insane and we had several deaths and killing sprees by rabbits who couldn't adjust.

 

[tm_bunnyloft]

I am considering dividing it into 9 20 x 20 pens, each holding 6 does and a buck, plus kits. That way I can cover it with netting to keep out flying predators.

 

[DarayTala]

Thanks so much for the tips guys, it really helps. I don't have a place for an indoor colony at the moment, but theres a whole lot of room in the yard. I was planning on lining the bottom of the pen with wire to stop them from digging. Any advice on what to use? I was originally thinking something with 1" by 2" spacing, probably 14 gauge. Do you think that would work, and would it last?

Also, does anyone else rotate rabbits around for forage? If so, how long do you leave them in one spot?

I was also planning on providing some pellets and lots of hay to munch on. As far as waterers, what works best in a colony setting?

Using an old chicken nest box for kindling sounds like a great idea. I definitely think I will try something of that sort.

Another thing I was wondering, since I'm planning on getting unrelated does from different lines (and different breeds actually), should I try and introduce them carefully and hope they don't fight, or should I breed them once, choose the best offspring and raise them together after weaning and use them to start the colony? Do you think theres a chance older does even could get along with each other? I've done introductions between older rabbits many a time, but its always been neutered and spayed pets so they were a lot more laid back.

 

[tm_bunnyloft]

I have some Does from a couple of different places that are now together in indoor colonies. At first one of the Mini Rex does was a terror but she gets along just fine now. It took her a couple days to prove she is the boss is all. She is a hateful Rabbit though and headed for freezer camp here real soon.

 

[akane]

None of the does I started with were related and at one point I had 8 in one pen and 5 in another. The only injury we've had in 2 years is a slight ear tear that is show career ending but otherwise not important.

 

[MaggieJ]

Take a look at this old thread, DarayTala, if you want to see pictures of the nest tunnels.
pictures-of-nest-tunnels-in-colony-t2903.html

Young rabbits are easier to combine in a colony than older ones. Mine are all related and there have been no real problems. They are very easy-going meat mutts.

 

[DarayTala]

MaggieJ, I love the look of that setup, thank you. Actually, having it walled on three sides gave me a great idea. I have a "room" in my garage. I believe its about 11' by 9'. Its just the framework of a room really, it was being built by the previous owner and he didn't get around to putting up drywall.

So what do you all thing of the idea of putting up plywood in a room that size and using it for a bunny enclosure? I'm not sure how high I would need to put the plywood to make sure they couldn't jump out. Any idea?
Whats the best way to keep things clean and keep the smell down in a space like that? I was thinking sweeping up any poop a couple times a week, and wiping up the pee daily, maybe doing a thorough scrub down once a week or when needed. Do you think that would work on a garage floor? Its regular cement I think, no idea if it will observe odors. Any better ideas and suggestions?

Will this be enough space for three does and a buck? If it isn't, will creating shelves and ramps to give them more square footage work?

 

[tm_bunnyloft]

I have cement paver block floors and I use DE on my floors where they pee. Then I sweep everything into one pile daily and shovel it out once a week. I clean up the wasted hay daily to feed to the goats before it gets yucky also. Once I have the sweeping done I sprinkle DE on the pile and damp spots. DE is safe for the chickens who get the droppings and wasted grain. And safe for the goats and mini donkey who get the left over hay.

 

[DarayTala]

Sorry for the ignorance, but what is DE? Do you put it on the floors to absorb the pee, or use it to treat the smell after? Also, how much hay do you put down? Do you cover the floor with it, or just give it to them for food in some places? Would this all be safe to compost afterwards? What parts would be safe to give to ducks?

 

[tm_bunnyloft]

Damascus Earth(red lake earth) I put it down to absorb the pee and odor. It is safe for the animals to eat. I give a small handful for each rabbit every day. I tried a haybale in a pen to see if they would burrow in it and now I have a mess. Oops.
The ducks will enjoy any pellets or grain you sweep up. I am making a worm bed in my chicken pen. I figure the chickens and ducks will love it.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Damascus Earth is one type of Diatomaceous Earth that is sold. It is the fossilized remains of the shells of Diatoms, which were tiny aquatic creatures. I add it to all of my animal feed, and it can be used to treat insect infestations. Buy only food grade DE- the pool grade has been heat treated, changing the molecular structure, and causing it to be poisonous and an inhalation hazard.

This site has a lot of good information on the variety of uses and benefits of Diatomaceous Earth:

http://www.naturalfeeds-fertilisers.co. ... r-use.html

 

[DarayTala]

Alrighty, so I got an area set up in my garage. Its about 9 by 11 I believe, I'm hoping its enough but prepared to remove one doe or the buck to a 3 by 3 cage I have if it isn't.

One question I have is, how high can rabbits jump and are they likely to try and escape?
The area I have already had a frame for a room built, probably for a tool area or something, so I just put up four foot wood panels around it. I am sure they probably are capable of making a four foot leap, but not sure, and I don't know if they would try. Some of the set ups I've seen seem to only have fencing that is about this height, so does it work? If not, I got chicken wire to put above the panels to make it about six feet, but I don't want to do that unless I need to. Do you think its necessary or should I just wait and see if they make any attempt to escape? Are youngsters more likely to jump it, as these rabbits are probably in the 8-12 lb range and seem pretty relaxed when I looked them over.

Also, I'm very much one for recycling old objects, so I'm converting some strange odds and ends into little hideaways and nest boxes for them. I know there is a danger of them chewing on certain woods depending on the wood and what it is treated with. I've heard this can be prevented somewhat by providing them with lots of branches to chew on. What kind of trees are safe to get branches from? Are there any types of wood or finishes that are just so dangerous I should stay away from them all together? Any other way to deter them from chewing certain objects?

 

[akane]

I had a checkered giant clear 5' and I had baby netherland dwarfs so small enough to fit in your hand scale a 2' wall. If they get in one of their panic moods they can bounce right over things. I'd just staple some wire to the rest of the frame. They won't be able to bother the wire so you can use the cheap stuff but it will keep them from bouncing or climbing out.

 

[MaggieJ]

I'd add the wire. They really can leap high when they want to.

If you put the buck in the day before the does, it will help minimize fighting. The buck will establish it as his territory and the does will tend to behave because they will feel as though they are on his turf.

Safe trees... There are a lot. Apple, pear, sycamore, elm, willow, poplar, mulberry, silver maple, sugar maple are all safe. There are others, but I cannot think of them offhand.

I recommend you stay away from trees bearing single stoned fruits such as cherry, peach or plum. There may be toxicity issues with those trees.

 

[DarayTala]

I will see what I can do with putting the buck in first. I'm picking them all up tomorrow morning, but I might be able to put in the buck as soon as I get home, and hold off until evening for the does. I don't have enough cages set up to keep them separate for long though. I'm going to see if I have time to get the wire up before they arrive as well. If not, I'll be sure to be very careful not to stress or frighten them until I can get it up.

How many places to hide and eventually nest do you think I should provide? Right now I have two, and setting up a third that has a small, medium, and large compartment. So I will sort of have five separate "holes" for the four of them. Will that be enough?