New Senate Bills in Arkansas

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After the previous animal rights bill was passed and signed into law, this one was needed to provide definitions for the actions allowed and who exactly is allowed to enforce it. I kicked someone off my facebook page when it became known that she was involved in entrapment of animal owners.
 
I may be missing something but I do not appove of these bills.
They basically make it illegal to be a "whistle blower" or take evidence of animal abuse.
If you are standing on your own property and take a video of your neighbours downed mare making making death paw marks in the dirt, it is not admissable as evidence and your neighbour can sue you for $5000! How is that a good thing?
 
Dood":19geryxr said:
I may be missing something but I do not appove of these bills.
They basically make it illegal to be a "whistle blower" or take evidence of animal abuse.
If you are standing on your own property and take a video of your neighbours downed mare making making death paw marks in the dirt, it is not admissable as evidence and your neighbour can sue you for $5000! How is that a good thing?
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You can still tell the police about the abuse, but PeTA can't harass you , THAT'S how it's a good thing.<br /><br />__________ Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:01 am __________<br /><br />I just double-checked the bill to be sure, and you can't be sued for taking an image from your own property. To be in violation of that law you have to gain the recording though fraud or trespass. You are not in violation of that law if you openly record video from your own property.
 
I didn't read where it says this only applies if trespassing or being admitted under false pretenses
(a) A person who is not a certified law enforcement officer who knowingly conducts an investigation, including collection of evidence into alleged claims of criminal conduct involving an animal by another person or entity, or coerces a person to surrender his or her personal property through threat of criminal investigation or prosecution related to alleged claims of criminal conduct involving an animal by another person or entity upon conviction is guilty of a Class B misdemeanor.
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Evidence by a citizen is non admissable and if used the case can be thrown out on a technicality
(3)(A) An investigation into an alleged criminal offense under this subchapter shall be conducted exclusively by the law enforcement agency having jurisdiction.
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To get a warrant you need two vets to sign off and one must be a 'specialist' for the species
(2)(A)(i) Allegations of probable cause and factual support of a criminal offense under this subchapter shall be set forth by at least two (2) licensed veterinarians in an affidavit in support of a search warrant.
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But how will that happen if you cannot use evidence provided by citizens?

You can still tell the police about the abuse
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yes, but by the time they show up the horse could be dead, and it becomes a he said / she said because your video cannot be used.

or the cows suddenly have water

or the dogs long line is untangled from around the tree so he can actually reach his food and water.

I hear all this stuff about PETA harrassing people but I dont know anyone who has been hassled by them, or any form of animal control for that matter, and I have been a farmer my whole life, and worked in the pet animal field for 25 years.

I know people who have been inspected, and told there is no problem and the allegations were false, or told what the problems are and how to fix them, but thats not harrassement, thats being educated about the law.
 
Your very fortunate Dood to not have been exposed to the sort of abuses of power that have occured here in the states, very lucky indeed. There's a battle for control going on here, between the Animal Rights organizations and farmers, animal breeders, keepers and producers, anyone who uses animals for anything. There are no real laws in place to protect the rights of the average Joe animal owner, and all we've seen is them getting bulldozed over and over and over. Things such as their animals being seized, passed out to shelters and rescue, and being spayed/neutored and adopted even before the court case comes up. Folks signing over rights after being told they are liable for thousands in board and care. People have been threatened and intimidated by animal enforcement officials who aren't even legally sworn in in that county, thats happened a lot here in PA. So they show up, threaten you, seize your animals, intimidate you into signing them over, or they charge you thousands for upkeep, and then by the time you get to court and the charges end up being dropped or your proven innocent all your animals are gone, your breeding program destroyed, with no hope of getting your beloved pets back in some cases. Then there's the false testimony, and the staging of pictures in filthy cages, I can go on and on. In my state alone in 2008 there were over 300 licensed high volume kennels. High volume here is considered over 50 dogs a year in possession, sold, produced, thats all together. Then they pushed thru new very restrictive legislation. There are now only 55 high volume kennels in this state, and hundreds of small ones have shut down as well. Now their chasing after any small breeder who might go over the kennel license number by a puppy or two, scouring the internet looking for 'illegal sellers'. They got the big guys, now their after the little guys. And they have no laws to protect their rights, no laws to guarantee the return of their animals, no laws to protect them from false testimony. The hoarder who was just shot and killed by police in TN, it was his neighbors who told the authorities that he was armed and dangerous and was going to fight them. The Memphis Animal Services were on site and said they had been threatened- Their answer, Police sent a SWAT team to deliver an animal cruelty warrant, and a mentally ill 60 year old hoarder ended up dead, because supposedly he had a gun, and was going to fight them to keep his animals, according to his neighbors. They are keeping very close mouthed about the entire situation, his neighbors told Animal control that he had cats and dogs, chickens and raccoons and possums. So far they admit to finding cats and dogs but no chickens raccoons and possums. And he's dead, and if they lied about what they thought he had what esle did they lie about? Maybe they thought Animal Control would act quicker if they told them he had animals that could carry rabies. We here in the states need laws protecting animal owners, its a battlefield here and its going to get worse.
 
It has gone crazy here, because the definitions of the words "abuse" and "neglect" are often subjectively interpreted. So if someone disagrees with the way you are keeping your animals, then you are abusing them.

No one on this forum condones actual abuse, but it has been PETA and the HSUS that have been determining animal policy in this nation, and that is a bad thing. They are not your average people who want to stop the neighbor's dog from wearing a choke collar and nearly strangling himself trying to reach his water dish. They are people who do not believe anyone should keep animals at all. Therefore, they have been slowly tightening the laws (and yes, legislators often consult with PETA or the HSUS, and sometimes even allow them to write the new laws themselves). It has become increasingly difficult to breed and sell animals.

We have an even greater difficulty with rabbits, because a great number of people see them as "too cute" to be meat animals. They might not object if you were raising your own chickens, but rabbits? That's unacceptable.

So many of us in the U.S. have to run our rabbitries in secret -- not just meat breeders, but pet and show breeders, too. I have relaxed a little now that we're out in the country, but not completely. Some on here actually have to keep their meat rabbitries inside their houses, just to keep their neighbors from knowing they are raising their own meat. That's not right.
 
Bill 13 regulates what is considered a legitimate legal investigation. Everything in it regulates what is a legitimate police investigation. Neither you nor I are legitimate police investigators and evidence submitted by us SHOULD be considered hearsay. Instead, you are to make a complaint to the police, which will be relayed to 2 veterinarians. These 2 vets decide if the allegations warrant probable cause to procure a warrant. In the meantime, There is nothing stopping the police from conducting a visual inspection and an interview. This is actually not too different from how things are done in general, if Animal Cops is as candid as they claim.

Conversely, whether you have committed a crime that you can be prosecuted for is contained in bill 14.

http://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/assembly/ ... s/SB14.pdf

Every item on it requires the audio or video recordings to have been made due to fraud or trespass.
 
Miss M":7373ykpf said:
It has gone crazy here, because the definitions of the words "abuse" and "neglect" are often subjectively interpreted. So if someone disagrees with the way you are keeping your animals, then you are abusing them.

No one on this forum condones actual abuse, but it has been PETA and the HSUS that have been determining animal policy in this nation, and that is a bad thing. They are not your average people who want to stop the neighbor's dog from wearing a choke collar and nearly strangling himself trying to reach his water dish. They are people who do not believe anyone should keep animals at all. Therefore, they have been slowly tightening the laws (and yes, legislators often consult with PETA or the HSUS, and sometimes even allow them to write the new laws themselves). It has become increasingly difficult to breed and sell animals.

We have an even greater difficulty with rabbits, because a great number of people see them as "too cute" to be meat animals. They might not object if you were raising your own chickens, but rabbits? That's unacceptable.

So many of us in the U.S. have to run our rabbitries in secret -- not just meat breeders, but pet and show breeders, too. I have relaxed a little now that we're out in the country, but not completely. Some on here actually have to keep their meat rabbitries inside their houses, just to keep their neighbors from knowing they are raising their own meat. That's not right.
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Very true, and not just from a meat animal standpoint, but also from the standpoints of vandalism, theft and destruction of property.
 
SatinsRule":23ro5o9u said:
Very true, and not just from a meat animal standpoint, but also from the standpoints of vandalism, theft and destruction of property.
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Good point... this is why I started padlocking my rabbitry. That way it wouldn't just be trespassing or mischief, it would be all of that.
 
Dood":2lxinzz6 said:
I hear all this stuff about PETA harrassing people but I dont know anyone who has been hassled by them, or any form of animal control for that matter, and I have been a farmer my whole life, and worked in the pet animal field for 25 years.
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Then either you've been fortunate enough not to have to experience it thus far, OR you simply haven't opened your eyes and ears wide enough.

As I mentioned before, there was a girl who somehow ended up being friended onto my facebook page, and who some time later flat out admitted to the point of bragging that she worked for a group whose sole purpose in life was to bust and help prosecute people who she termed "abusers", and some of the things she was discussing as "abuse" was what very few of the people on here would term as such. For example, she viewed someone buying an animal and not keeping it confined versus letting it roam and do damage around the neighborhood as everyone's shared responsibility. If it came onto your property and soiled your yards or walkway or dug up your flower beds or garden veggies, it was your responsibility to ensure that restraints (ones which didn't include correcting the annoying behavior) were put down to prevent the episodes from happening again, not the animal's new owner. She was not a public employee, but rather a hire of an ARA group, and her answer for everything was, "Tell it to the judge." She was/is a loser idiot of the highest order.
 
I don't know who shot your dog ma'am. I know it was shot on my property while digging in my prized roses, but I didn't do it. It was totally someone else. Don't believe me? Tell it to the judge.
 
Happy":3jdvpuba said:
I don't know who shot your dog ma'am. I know it was shot on my property while digging in my prized roses, but I didn't do it. It was totally someone else. Don't believe me? Tell it to the judge.
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:clap: :goodpost: :bow: :clap:
 
I like this Mew Ham[shire bill https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.ph ... -deijE.gif

Why is a video recording made from a person own property considered "hearsay"? If that would be true, than any self installed security camera connected to a video or audio recorder would not be admissible, either--

The park I live in is installing 22 cameras to monitor the drug activity-- is that going to be hearsay? Is every phone call I make tot he HSeridffs dep[artment every time a buy goes down going to be called 'hearsay"? IS a game camera pic if the person messing with my shed door going to be hearsay?
 
Terry, a lot of it depends on how your state wrote the statutes governing audio/video recordings ... and the fact that there is not a tamper-proof time/date stamp ... so when it gets to court, the defense can attack the video time/date ... of course, if you have a video, and then the cops show up, that is an admissible time/date authentication. Of course, the bills in question are only for arkansas.
 
You live in a park?

And yes, an unverifiable video that can have WHATEVER time signature it wants and can be admitted whenever, including YEARS after the fact, is hearsay, as far as legality is concerned. we have strict chain-of-evidence rules for a reason.
 
MObile Home park-- fewer than 40 homes in it, On 30 acres-- we have a WIDE open field, ponds, a stream, our own sewage treatment plant, pull our water from 12 wells...

Our cameras are going up because of what is happening with the Meth lab-- I am actually taking notes at night concerning the traffic activity-- dates and times of the chemical odor releases, etc---
 
Cool. i hope you can gather enough hearsay to get a legitimate investigation started. Meth is a bane, and i can tell you from experience that it leads nowhere good and nowhere you can easily escape.
 

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