New Rabbits, a little advice please.

[ChaoSS]

I'll try to make the story quick here. I've been planning to get some rabbits for a little while now, I want to raise them for meat. I was going to build a cage this weekend, if I didn't find anything on CL, and I was going to keep doing my research, get some young rabbits to start with.... Anyway, that plan fell apart when I found someone selling a buck, three does, a set of three stacking cages, 2 other cages, and a hutch, with enough water bottles and feed bowls and whatnot to keep plenty of rabbits happy, all for 100 bucks. The cages are smaller than I'd like, but I figure I can keep them for grow out cages, or even just leave these rabbits in them, since they've been living in them anyway.


So, here's my first issue. One of the rabbits is pregnant. Maybe. I don't know. The guy I bought them from said she was. I'm not sure how much this guy knew about taking care of the rabbits, they seemed somewhat ill taken care of. The pregnant(?) one was attacked by a dog about two weeks ago and her ear is pretty chewed up, apparently there was a 5th rabbit that was killed by a dog, and a litter of babies that drowned when the mother had them outside a cage and someone left a sprinkler on. Clearly, they were well taken care of. :roll:


So anyway, there are nest boxes, but only one of them is really the right size. The rest are too small. I put the big one into the cage with the pregnant doe, and put some grass in it, and surprise surprise, she's pooping and peeing in it. I've read you shouldn't give it to her until a few days before she gives birth, but I don't know when that's going to be, if she is going to give birth.

Suggestions? Just clean it out every day? I don't mind doing that, but I don't want her to get in the habit of using that as a litter box and then end up doing so with the babies inside.

 

[michaels4gardens]

Don't-ya-hate-that -IMHO- I supose you will have to keep cleaning it out, --but-- when the kits are born, there is a 50/50 chance she will keep resting[pooping/peeing] in the box-- so-- if she does-- you need to take the nest box [with kits]out and bring it back to her to feed the kits a couple of times / day for a week or so-- till the bad habbit is broken. - then -when your does are bred write it down, --cause now you know what a pain it is to do it this way.

 

[Dood]

You could try putting a second nest box in there and hope she picks that one as a litter box or try putting a roof on the nest box so it is only 10 inches high and with a small 5x5 enterance so it is more den like. This is the kind of nest box my does have and they don't use it as a toilet.

 

[TwoAcreDream]

WELCOME to the site

You got a sweet deal to get started.

Try switching the nest box to the other side of the cage.
It is hard when you don't know when or if they are bred.
If the wire cages do not have baby saver wire on the bottom
of the side walls, try putting some kind of guard in place to
keep the babies in the cage till you can rescue them if she does
not have them in the box. Even strips of cardboard, ziptied
in place will work. If she continues to soil the nest, you will have
to clean it daily.

You might want to assume all 3 does are pregnant and have
nestboxes in place. Better safe than sorry. It's no fun to lose
a litter on the wire.
Good luck

 

[ChaoSS]

She seems to have done less in the box this time. She peed in there but most of the turds are outside the box.

I really don't have room for more boxes. I really just need to go ahead and make some bigger cages for them this weekend.

 

[HoppyMeal]

you might try putting some hay in the cage and watch what she does with it for a bit. if she eats it then she is not ready yet, but if she starts gathering it up in her mouth then I would put the nest box in. You might also watch to see if she digs at the floor, it would look lie she trying to dig a hole in the floor. As far as the other nests boxes go if they are homemade you may be able to rebuild them we some scrap wood.

Good Luck

 

[ChaoSS]

Ok, so, a little update. The one I thought was pregnant was not. I can't feel anything in her belly. Her injuries from the dog attack were more severe than I realized. I was trying to clean her up today, and was finding infected and mangled areas that had been covered by fur before and seemed ok. I decided it would be best to just put her down.


On the other hand, one of the other females is pregnant. I was trying to breed her, and she wasn't taking the male. Guess I know why now. I feel distinct movements in her belly, and her nipples seem bigger right now. So I cleaned out the larger cage and nest box, cleaned it all up with vinegar, hit it with the propane torch (just to be safe) and it's in the sun right now. After I get home from work I guess I'll transfer her into the bigger cage and wait to see what happens.

 

[Miss M]

I'm so sorry you had to put the one doe down.

That's great news that you have a litter on the way, though! I'm glad these buns have found you, now... sounds like you're taking way better care of them than their previous owner did!

 

[ChaoSS]

I may be taking better care but apparently I need to be doing a little bit better. How about an "in the nick of time" story?

Yesterday I woke up, and went outside to start doing my work. I was cleaning cages when I started trying to clean the injured rabbit and decided to put her down. I put her down, cleaned out her cage, and it was time for me to leave for work, about 430 in the afternoon.

I get home this morning, right around 430 in the morning, and gave all the rabbits some fresh grass. The pregnant doe had eaten all of hers, so she didn't have any at the time. When I gave it to her she started furiously rooting through it. I was wondering if that was what nesting was. So after I fed them, I set up the new cage, gave her plenty of grass in the nesting box, and transferred her over to the new cage. She started exploring, and I went to bed, right around 5.

This afternoon I wake up around 1, and my wife went outside to go water the garden. 15 seconds later she comes back in to inform me we have a new litter. So, apparently, I really, really, should have paid attention to everyone here and given her a nest box earlier. No harm no foul, though, I suppose. In that time she managed a very impressive little nest in there, she must be a fairly experienced mother because she has those little kits covered up very well with fur.

Now, I guess I should start giving her some alfalfa along with the rest of her food?

 

[MamaSheepdog]

First off, welcome to the forum and the wonderful world of raising rabbits!

:welcomewagon:

You did find a great deal!

Congratulations on the litter. At least you got her the nest in time. This concerns me though:

gave her plenty of grass in the nesting box

Do you mean fresh grass or grass hay? I wouldn't recommend using fresh green grass in the nest. The material should be dry.

I use pine shavings as a base and then add hay and shredded paper (brown bags that I put through a document shredder), but some people just use shavings, hay, or paper shreds.

I guess I should start giving her some alfalfa along with the rest of her food?

She will certainly enjoy it if you do, but if she is on pellets already it isn't strictly necessary. Hay in the diet is a great preventative for wool block and it also gives them something to nibble on throughout the day.

 

[ChaoSS]

Congratulations on the litter. At least you got her the nest in time. This concerns me though:

gave her plenty of grass in the nesting box

Do you mean fresh grass or grass hay? I wouldn't recommend using fresh green grass in the nest. The material should be dry.

I mean fresh grass.

Local feed shops have some issues. Apparently they want a whole lot of money for hay that they can't tell me what it is. I'm not buying something that I don't know what it is. So today I finally went down to a place that's pretty far away and bought some hay (bermuda and alfalfa).

Up to this point, most of what they've been eating is grass cut out of my front yard. I'd keep doing that, but the yard is being overrun with foxtails, and I'm running out of foxtail free grass to give them. Her nest is some of the last of it.

I'm assuming I shouldn't try to replace her nest, so I'll leave it as is. I'll give her plenty of hay though, if she feels like doing anything with it.


And btw, I've been feeding them alfalfa based pellets, but they aren't eating much of them. Mostly they've been eating the grass. I give the pellets because I have no idea the nutritional content of my front lawn but it can't be too bad because sometimes they completely ignore the pellets and just eat the grass, and their "output" seems normal to me. I'll keep providing pellets, but I'll mix a little alfalfa into her hay, and maybe sometimes into the male's hay and the other doe, since she'll be getting pregnant sometime soon anyway.

 

[Miss M]

Wow! Congrats on the new litter! :bouncy:

I'm assuming I shouldn't try to replace her nest, so I'll leave it as is. I'll give her plenty of hay though, if she feels like doing anything with it.

You can replace the nest, but if I put alfalfa hay in my nestboxes, I may as well fill them with gold... I don't know how expensive your hay was, though. MSD is right that it should be a dry material, because then the nest material will absorb urine, keeping the babies dry, and the airflow through the nest material should help it dry out relatively well. Better than fresh grass, which would let some of the urine fall through perhaps, but would stay wet and possibly keep the babies wet. The fur will help absorb, too.

I have Bahia grass hay right now, and I've used Coastal Bermuda and Alecia before.

I certainly understand not wanting to buy something when you don't know what it is.

Some people can find straw easily... straw is also a good nestbox material. Dryer lint (no long hair), teased cotton balls, feathers, shredded paper, pine shavings, etc.

she must be a fairly experienced mother because she has those little kits covered up very well with fur.

Some does actually get everything right from their very first litter!

Mostly they've been eating the grass. I give the pellets because I have no idea the nutritional content of my front lawn but it can't be too bad because sometimes they completely ignore the pellets and just eat the grass, and their "output" seems normal to me.

There's a good chance that your lawn grass is not nutritionally sufficient to support their needs long-term; however, there are some kinds of grass that do make good food, with high enough protein and such. It would be good to learn what sort of grass you have, so you can find out.

They may be avoiding the pellets because their needs are being met with the grass, or because they like the taste better.

If they like the taste better, you may start noticing them losing their condition, as they eat and eat and eat the grass, while avoiding the much more nutritionally complete pellets.

 

[ChaoSS]

When i get home I'll try and rebuild the nest with dry hay. Two bales of hay cost me 30 dollars. A little more than i feel it should have around here, but that should last them a good while. As for my grass I'm thinking of killing it off and seeding bermuda grass anyway. The foxtails are getting old.


Should i expect problems switching the rabbits from fresh grass to dry hay? They didn't seem very interested in it when i gave it to them, but i didn't have much time from when i fed them and when i left for work. <br /><br /> -- Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:36 am -- <br /><br /> Ok, so I rebuilt the nest. That was good, I got to go through there and make sure there were no dead bodies or any other surprises. All of the babies made it through a day of fresh grass in the nest and are now in a hay one. I managed to make the transition with the cat eating any kits, and no unpleasant crunches when I picked up the little rabbits.


It's weird, when my dogs have had litters they haven't really wanted me near them. My dogs have always been very comfortable around me, I never had to worry about them biting me if I was messing with their food or anything, and they were very anxious if I got near their babies in the first few days. The little bunny doesn't seem to care that I took away her babies for a bit, and she's still not all that used to me.

All of the rabbits are now going to be fed a diet of hay and pellets and fresh grass, and i'll try to wean them off the grass. Already, though, they seem to like the alfalfa more than the bermuda hay. Hopefully that doesn't cause any issues.

 

[michaels4gardens]

I fed coastal, and some alfalfa when I was in Florida, IMHO -- the coastal is a good filler, source of long stem fiber, cure for boredom, and nest box material, while alfalfa is high in feed value, but a little light in fiber, --so letting them have both, will allow them to meet their individual needs for energy, protein, and fiber.

 

[Zass]

Congratulations on the little ones!

Fresh grass is OK to feed. So long as you are also offering regular pellets and hay, I don't see any problem with supplementing some fresh grasses too. The onlt thing I can think of is that making a salt and mineral block available is often recommended for rabbits who eat mostly forage.

I feed a variety of fresh and dried forage to my rabbits along with their regular food, and I feel they are probably getting better nutrition than just pellets and hay alone! Nutrition is always such a balancing act. :lol: so long as their body weight is good, and they are eating (and pooping) normally then you have nothing to worry about.

 

[ChaoSS]

Just pulled 4 dead kits from the nest. They appear to have been fed. Did i kill them by messing up the nest?

One of the remaining kits has is filthy. Fur stuck all over it's rear end. Should i clean it?

What now?

 

[Zass]

Filthy with feces? Clean it carefully and pat it dry before putting a baby back outside in cold weather.

Most of us change nesting material routinely at least once while the kits are still using it. Unless they are very small and have lost all their mom's pulled fur covering, I don't see how changing a nest could be the cause.

How old are they now? What does their poo look like?

Unfortunately there are a LOT of things that can be causing the little ones to drop off (from parasites, to disease, a change in food, or the simple inability to adapt to solid food), the more details you can provide, the better.

 

[ChaoSS]

I cleaned the one up and put her back in the nest. Hopefully I don't end up killing that one too....


The kits are 1 day old. The mother seems to be very careful every time she gets into the nest with them. There are no bite marks on the dead ones. There is no bruising on them that would indicate being stepped on and killed that way. All but one of the kits appear to have been fed, they have nice full bellies. I can't think of anything other than that they got cold after I changed out the nest because I didn't get it put back together well enough.

The mother had moved the dead ones off to the side, lined them all up together away from the living ones. I'm assuming she isn't just abandoning the kits if she's still trying to maintain the nest.

My concern is whether the three kits by themselves will be putting out enough warmth to keep themselves alive tonight. It really isn't that cold around here, I'm in California and it's dropping into the low 50s very high 40s at night.

 

[Zass]

Is the mother soiling the nest? If she is peeing or pooing in there then they could get a chill that way. With a well built clean nest and shelter from wind, kits can survive even negative temps.

She also might have slept on top of them or "thumped" on top of the nest which can cause fatalities.
No matter what the cause,
I would be worried about the rest.
One option you have at this point is to take the whole nestbox inside with you and return it to the mother twice a day for nursing.
Most does do well by this, and I actually noticed LESS anxiety from a certain high-strung doe this winter when she wasn't trapped in close proximity to her nestbox.

Rabbits naturally hide their nests and only sneak back once or twice a day for nursing. When you give the doe her nest in the morning, she should nurse right away (or as soon as you look away.) It only takes a few minutes. If their bellies are filled up you just bring them right back inside until evening.
She may nurse only once/day. (my kits were FAT nursing only once a day) Bring them inside at night.
Repeat as necessary And when they no longer need the nestbox you can just leave them with mom until weaning.

 

[ChaoSS]

I don't know where I could put the kits in the house without the cat getting at them.


With the weather like this, could I just put the mother back in another cage and put her in with the kits twice a day? Will she get upset being so close to them but not able to get to them?