Netherland Doe problems around her rear end (pics included)

[jimmywalt]

Our Netherland Dwarf do which is about 15 months old and had a litter 6 weeks ago today has some funny stuff around her rear end.

When turning her over she doesn't look anything like a normal doe now. We tried to get this damp with a wash cloth to see if it would come off and we just don't know what to do about this. Could this be from giving birth 6 weeks ago? She seems to go pee/poo just fine over the past few weeks.

What should we do? Thank you for your help!

 

[Dood]

Looks like syphilis

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/exoti ... bbits.html

As a highly contagious sexually transmitted disease, her kits, any bucks that bred her and any does those bucks consequently bred could be infected

It can also be on the face from rabbits grooming and eating cecotropes and hence spread from nose to nose contact

Seems the vet diagnosis was correct

post293145.html?hilit=%20Syphilis#p293145

Perhaps this doe brought it into the herd?

post241771.html?hilit=%20Syphilis#p241771

 

[jimmywalt]

Looks like syphilis

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/exoti ... bbits.html

As a highly contagious sexually transmitted disease, her kits, any bucks that bred her and any does those bucks consequently bred could be infected

It can also be on the face from rabbits grooming and eating cecotropes and hence spread from nose to nose contact

So what do we do now? Any help would greatly be appreciated.

 

[FourRingCircus]

My first batch of rabbits were pretty bad - I didn't know what to look for or anything and ended up with one with raging ear mites that I never could get rid of, and one with syphilis. I was able to treat her successfully with PenG (I did all 3 that I got from the guy). I never could get her to breed though so she was culled a while ago. Not sure the long term success of PenG. I would treat her and the buck, then potentially any others that he has had contact with since then... not sure about the kits. So sorry you are dealing with it... hopefully once everyone is treated you can move past it!

 

[ladysown]

you sure that's not just a terribly messy butt???

Some does when raising kits and getting to the six week "I want to get bred again" get really messy in their litter habits.

Just a wandering...

 

[FourRingCircus]

you sure that's not just a terribly messy butt???

Some does when raising kits and getting to the six week "I want to get bred again" get really messy in their litter habits.

Just a wandering...

It looks way too red and inflamed to me. And the hair around the area isn't stained or matted like I would guess it would be if the poop was a little too soft. I could be wrong, especially going just by pics, but give the posts referenced and the current situation, it sounds likely.

 

[jimmywalt]

Here is a picture of the BUCKS lip from about 2 weeks ago. This has since fallen off. Yet I believe someone above said that this could be the sign of a contagious disease.

What are your thoughts? Thank you again.

<br /><br /> -- Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:41 pm -- <br /><br />

Looks like syphilis

Seems the vet diagnosis was correct

post293145.html?hilit=%20Syphilis#p293145

Perhaps this doe brought it into the herd?

post241771.html?hilit=%20Syphilis#p241771

No, the links above were from a Holland Lop who is still extremely fine. I believe that the woman who adopted one of the Hollands kits and took it to the vet had a doctor who was incorrect. At least our Doe and Buck are still fine and show absolutely no signs of syphilis. ALSO these 2 Hollands aren't anywhere near the Netherland Dwarf that's in question in this thread.

 

[ladysown]

that is probably syphilus.

 

[dangerbunny]

I'm also betting syphilis. I treated my herd for it a couple months ago, new brood buck I bought showed signs of it after several months on his nose and anus, no other rabbits had any symptoms what so ever but since I had used him with several does and read it can be contagious via waterbottles and such, I treated everyone. A well respected breeder I trust says she treats every new bunny during quarantine, no matter where it came from since they can be silent carriers of it. So something to think about, I believe it is fairly widespread problem and may contribute to the breeding issues (trouble getting does pregnant, dead kits, sterile bucks) people experience. My buck's genitals looked totally normal and if it wasn't for getting a scabby nose and butt several months later I wouldn't have guessed vent disease.

I followed the treatment advice here: http://www.thenaturetrail.com/rabbit-he ... treatment/
After first treatment of Durapen the buck's scabs cleared up, but it is important to complete course of antibiotics. There is a chance of losing rabbits during antibiotic treatment but since I wasn't having a vet take cultures from each rabbit, I felt it important to treat the whole herd. Who knows, buck might have picked it up from one of my brood does and had a weaker immune system.

Anyway, totally curable but I reckon breeders don't like to talk about it because, ewww STDs, ya know?

 

[Prisma]

VD, all kits and any rabbit that came into contact with that buck or doe needs to be treated. They can have it and never show signs. I've dealt with it more than I'd like to, partly because used to pick up pitty buys at livestock sale that had it others were pure accident that breeder knew nothing about it. I always use the long lasting Pen G, 3 days at 1/10 cc per pound of body weight then a shot once a week for 3 more weeks. If its a bad case, I do 4. If it comes back, term cull. There are some that are resistant to Pen G treatment as its been used so much incorrectly when it comes to treatment (treat once, see scabs are gone and not treat again, that does not cure it only pushes away symptoms). The whole month's treatment must be done or you still have an infected rabbit.

As Danger said, can be an issue with fertility and dead kits etc and all. Its some thing to definitely thing about and keep Pen G handy for.

 

[jimmywalt]

VD, all kits and any rabbit that came into contact with that buck or doe needs to be treated. They can have it and never show signs. I've dealt with it more than I'd like to, partly because used to pick up pitty buys at livestock sale that had it others were pure accident that breeder knew nothing about it. I always use the long lasting Pen G, 3 days at 1/10 cc per pound of body weight then a shot once a week for 3 more weeks. If its a bad case, I do 4. If it comes back, term cull. There are some that are resistant to Pen G treatment as its been used so much incorrectly when it comes to treatment (treat once, see scabs are gone and not treat again, that does not cure it only pushes away symptoms). The whole month's treatment must be done or you still have an infected rabbit.

As Danger said, can be an issue with fertility and dead kits etc and all. Its some thing to definitely thing about and keep Pen G handy for.

I have been reading a lot about this and have the following questions -
1. What does Pen G look like? I have a Tractor Supply and Family Farm & Home near by. I will include a link to what they have to offer if someone could help me.

2. What is the shelf life of this this?

3. It seems there are 2 types. One you administer every other day for 6 days, and the other 1 time per week for 3 weeks. I like the idea of the 1 per week for 3 weeks because I'm worried that the every-other-day method could mess up the G.I. Tract. Do you agree?

4. After the last treatment, how long do you have to wait to breed the bunny?

5. I read to use a 22ga needle. I went to Family Farm and Home and found the disposable needles, but couldn't tell if there is a way to see how many cc's you are filling the needle with. Obviously you don't want to over or under dose.

Here are the sources of information I found online
http://bunnyrabbit.com/price/med-use.htm
http://www.thenaturetrail.com/rabbit-he ... treatment/
http://www.raising-rabbits.com/rabbit-syphilis.html

Penicillin at Tractor Supply and Family Farm & Home -
http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/search/penicillin
I can't find it on the Family Farm & Home site, so will the Tractor supply stuff work?

 

[macksmom98]

I am using the lowest dose I could buy with the smallest syringe and needle they sell all from tractor supply. I called the vet on staff at valley vet supply and he said Procraine Pen G is safe to use long term, just don't exceed 2 weeks. Or give 2 doses additional once symptoms subside. I use 1/4 ML daily which is the same as 1/4 CC, for my Holland Lop Buck....and it's working. Just watch to make sure yours is eating and drinking and doesn't have runny poo...

 

[Prisma]

VD, all kits and any rabbit that came into contact with that buck or doe needs to be treated. They can have it and never show signs. I've dealt with it more than I'd like to, partly because used to pick up pitty buys at livestock sale that had it others were pure accident that breeder knew nothing about it. I always use the long lasting Pen G, 3 days at 1/10 cc per pound of body weight then a shot once a week for 3 more weeks. If its a bad case, I do 4. If it comes back, term cull. There are some that are resistant to Pen G treatment as its been used so much incorrectly when it comes to treatment (treat once, see scabs are gone and not treat again, that does not cure it only pushes away symptoms). The whole month's treatment must be done or you still have an infected rabbit.

As Danger said, can be an issue with fertility and dead kits etc and all. Its some thing to definitely thing about and keep Pen G handy for.

I have been reading a lot about this and have the following questions -
1. What does Pen G look like? I have a Tractor Supply and Family Farm & Home near by. I will include a link to what they have to offer if someone could help me.

It's in a brown bottle with a white/yellow label. It'll be in the refrigerator with the other shots (7 way for dog cats, etc).

2. What is the shelf life of this this?

Shelf life is listed on the bottle, typically in a brand new bottle its a 2 year span. If the bottles have been there a while, may be a year or less.

3. It seems there are 2 types. One you administer every other day for 6 days, and the other 1 time per week for 3 weeks. I like the idea of the 1 per week for 3 weeks because I'm worried that the every-other-day method could mess up the G.I. Tract. Do you agree?

Either works fine, but I've had better success with the long lasting one. The other seems to upset the GI tract more (more stress on bunny too and human with having to give many more shots or least to me).

4. After the last treatment, how long do you have to wait to breed the bunny?

After the full treatment I wait another 30 days, stress the rabbit with car rides, etc to see if it shows again. Of the handful that came back down with it, 2 were during this time that showed signs but the other 3 were not until AFTER breeding again. I terminated the does as well as the offspring and retreated the buck I used (which never showed signs nor did any subsequent does used with him). I did not use my best buck on these "test" breedings, he was a mutt that I could stand to loose.

5. I read to use a 22ga needle. I went to Family Farm and Home and found the disposable needles, but couldn't tell if there is a way to see how many cc's you are filling the needle with. Obviously you don't want to over or under dose.

On the syringe there are marks, just make sure that it is marked in CC's to the 10th. If you get a small 3 ml syringe, you can count the lil marks in between from 0 to 1 to see what increments its marked in for sure (but usually they are done in 10ths with that size)

Here are the sources of information I found online
http://bunnyrabbit.com/price/med-use.htm
http://www.thenaturetrail.com/rabbit-he ... treatment/
http://www.raising-rabbits.com/rabbit-syphilis.html

Penicillin at Tractor Supply and Family Farm & Home -
http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/search/penicillin
I can't find it on the Family Farm & Home site, so will the Tractor supply stuff work?

TSC is where I get mine from as I need it. Be sure to use a clean needle/syringe each shot and do not mix them between rabbits, each rabbit needs its own needle/syringe


I put my answers within the quote in bold

macksmom98, do not just stop using after scabs disappear, otherwise the VD will just be unseen and will keep being passed on and causing problems. It is extremely important to follow a whole treatment, otherwise no use in doing it. Unless they've specifically treated VD, most vets, even Valley's, won't know how to treat it properly.

 

[macksmom98]

I am not 100% sure this is what my bunny has, but what is considered a full treatment? I do NOT want it coming back! But I am doing a daily dose, not sure if that falls in line with the VD treatment. My rabbit doesn't have any open sores or lesions and his genitals look fine. His anus has crust around it and the next most obvious area is his nose and face. They are just hard and bumpy tho nothing like the pictures I saw with open wounds. Super confusing! And he wants to breed which is not an indication of vent disease....

 

[Prisma]

See above for longer explanations. Not every bunny acts off, even with the worse illnesses.

In short on the treatment, with long lasting Pen G, its 3 days at 1/10 cc per pound and then each week 1 shot at 1/10 cc per pound for at least 3 weeks, on really bad cases I've done 4. With non long lasting, an entire week of shots (same 1/10 cc per pound), and then subsequent doses after 7 days, 3 days for an additional 3 weeks. I opt for the long lasting as lesser shots involved and it worked better for me (less stress for me and bunny).

They don't always have open sores, they don't even have to have any sores or places to be able to pass it on or have it. Most of the time you just see small scabs that fall off and they look "normal" again, not the big oozing open sores you see in some of the medi rabbit pictures for VD. That's why it is so common and often doesn't get caught until a doe n litter or a rabbit that's come into contact shows signs.