Nestboxes... False Charlies? Other ??

[TF3]

We bred our broken red NZ Buck to two (mother and daughter) harlequin coloured does (mutts).

So we should have broken and solids; red, broken red, tri and harle.

Clover: A_ B_ C_ D_ eje enen
Holly: A_ B_ C_ D_ eje enen
Prince Harry: A_ B_ C_ D_ ee ENen

Now, Harry was possibly a Charlie, too close to call (and full facial marks).
But that wouldn't matter when bred to solids, right?

Because a bunch of Holly's are Charlie to the eye right now.
This one appears solid white but for these faint face spots:
But they can't be genetic Charlies.

A couple of the tris have like 4 black dots.
None would come close to 50% colour.
What's that about?

Also, this pair... They were a couple days early and a big litter so they are not in great shape and may have to go, but they are so dark... My best guess is some discolouration on skin and they are going to be red?


I find it interesting that Clover's previous litter with Harry was two broken red... Big patches, no dots. This time all the brokens are super spotty in both litters. Does that get modified by something?
These are Clover's:

 

[Zass]

Dad is definitely not a charlie, because there are unbroken kits in the litter.

If there are recessive a's floating around in everyone's background you could have torts, torted harlis, or torted tris. The ears would be darker inside, not white.

Harlequin + broken creates the spotty effect.

 

[TF3]

Sweet, thanks Zass!
That's why the tris are always so spotTy!

They do look like torts to me, and while Holly had 12 chestnuts when bred to a lilac she might be hiding something (heck she hid Rex lol). They are in her litter and her full sister produced some recessives.
But in 4 litters Clover hasn't turned up any recessives but on the e (eje).

 

[Dood]

If anyone has recessives on the C- locus you could have a dirt or pee stained REW or frosty or himilayan but with the cold I would expect to see some points

 

[TF3]

Nah, they are clean LOL
We'll see what they become... ! <br /><br /> __________ Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:07 pm __________ <br /><br /> Wait.... I thought I got it re. The spotty pattern.
But-- Clover had broken reds with Harry that were NOT spotty...
So they were 'ee' and then broken.
All of these brokens are spotty, so therefore 'eje' and even if they appear only red, they are genetically broken 'eje'? And may have a black spot or two if we look hard enough?

 

[Dood]

The broken gene creates spots

Booted and heavily marked broken a have spots blended togeather that are difficult to see while Charlie's and false Charlie's have isolated spots that are easy to pick out

Any broken with black spots would have the harlequin gene

 

[TF3]

Ok -- so spotty/booted/blanketed don't matter what else, they are all broken and a roll of the dice (with tri requiring the ej).

 

[Zass]

Ok -- so spotty/booted/blanketed don't matter what else, they are all broken and a roll of the dice (with tri requiring the ej).

Yeah, sorry I didn't explain that well enough.
The broken pattern is what makes the dark harli markings look spotted instead of brindled, but the white pattern itself is independent of that.

 

[TF3]

No problem!
I really do think we have torts... And they are the tiniest... Now I have to let them grow to see!!

 

[ladysown]

The thing I find with tricolours is that sometimes you can't tell they are tricolour until they are a few days old. I usually know by day five but have had some take till a good week old.

 

[TF3]

That's interesting. A couple look like we dotted them with black sharpie LOL but I was wondering about a couple others that just don't look like clean broken reds (I mean the colour edges are smutty). So we'll have to see what they do!