Needing advice, making rookie mistakes

[II Arrows]

I guess I would still consider myself a rookie at raising rabbits. I have 2 Bucks and 3 does thus far. I guess I made my first rookie mistake when I bought my first doe. The guy I bought her from said she was a California mix that was approx. 18 months old, that was back on the 5th of December 2014. The same guy also sold me a 10 week old regular sized Rex buck, or what he claimed to be a regular Rex. I'm not sure if he's a Rex or a mini Rex. He has definitely gotten a lot bigger since I got him. 2 days later I found a lady who was getting out of raising rabbits. I bought a healthy looking NZW Buck and a healthy looking Californian Doe. She said they were about a year and a half old. All of her rabbits were very skittish. The only time she spent with them was to feed and water them, other then that I believe they were ignored. They lived in vey tiny wire hutches that were filthy so I felt I was saving them in a way. On the 21st of December I found a guy who was selling a BNZ Doe. I was super excited. I probably watched every video on youtube about raising rabbits and everything in between, and JRSKICK1 had me wanting to raise New Zealand reds and Blacks so when I found her I was super stoked to say the least. I got her home and added her to the family.
To make a long story short I bred my NZW buck to my California doe, and she didn't take. My California Mix doe mysteriously got knocked up without my knowledge and dropped all 5 of her kits on the wire on the coldest day of the year. I missed all the signs because I was too worried about the Big California doe. Shame on me. I waited about a week later and I rebred her to the same buck. I waited 28 days, prepped the nest box and put it in her cage. I was pleased to see her gathering hay and building her nest. On day 30 I went outside around 7 in the morning to find 1 kit in the box and 3 on the wire......all gone. I wasn't a happy camper. I pulled the nest box around 1030 or so thinking she was done. (MISTAKE) around 130ish my daughter calls me on my cell phone saying that there were 2 more kits on the wire. I went out there to check on my rabbits around noon and I didn't see anything. I told her to grab them and bring them in the house and sick them under her bearded dragon's heat lamp to warm them up. when I get home to check on the kits they were still very cold. I left them there for about 20 minutes. I couldn't save them. So now I'm wondering if its something I'm doing wrong or if she just isn't a good mother or don't know how to be a mother. I'm going to give her one more shot when the weather warms up a bit, I hope she proves me wrong.
I bred my California doe on the 2nd of February and I'm hoping she will drop some kits on the 5th on March. She's a big girl, I'm hoping she's not over weight and having trouble getting pregnant. The buck had 4 successful mounts on her so I have my fingers crossed. Since its so close to her dropping would it be a bad idea to bring her in the house? Should I just wait and see what she does outside in her own hutch?
With my BNZ doe, I was waiting to breed her this month. she will be 7 months old. Should I breed her at this age? Should I breed her with my Rex buck? or should I just take her to my experienced NXW buck. The Rex and the NZB doe are both virgins and I wanted them both to get that experience. I have read many times that you shouldn't wait to long to breed. I don't want to make any more rookie mistakes. I would love to get a successful litter under my belt. If you have made it this far reading this and you have any advice or words of wisdom I appreciate it. Thank you all

 

[Zass]

7 months is probably fine to breed. What is her weight?

I think a lot of people have breeding troubles with first time does due to starting them too late. Maybe because so many of the pellets are really fatty these days?? It can be hard to keep them trim for 7 or 8 months.

Why not breed NZ to NZ?

Of course, just about anything bred to rex makes some lovely pelts. Not rex coated, but still pretty dense and plush.

 

[Sagebrush]

I see Zass already beat me!

II Arrows, I feel your pain. I too have had this happen with more than one doe. It is hard to take in sometimes, but learn from it. ALWAYS leave the nest box in for that first day when the doe starts having her kits. I say to leave it for at least the first 24 hours before you pull it out from her (that I mean about inexperienced or aggressive does). That way there if she has more, and you only interrupted her, she will have the rest in the nest box instead of the wire. Like I said, I have been there and done that very thing!

The use of the lizards heat lamp would be hard to gage it's effectiveness without seeing how it was actually used. I know first hand that it can get HOT under the bulb, but that is RIGHT under it (as in 4-6 inches). The farther away from the bulb the less the heat is going to penetrate. You would actually have better luck warming a chilled kit by having them in skin contact with you or next to a glass jar full of hot water wrapped in an old sock.

Now with the temps that you are experiencing I would leave your doe out in her own hutch, there won't be the stress of her going to a different temperature that can make her sick. There also will not be the added stress of her going into a new environment that would also add stress to her. If you feel the need, put a layer of cardboard into the hutch and fill it about half full with straw, so that no matter where she actually has them they are still warm and protected till you find them. That way there you can put them into the nest box if they are not there already.

 

[II Arrows]

Zass, Thank you. As far as her weight I don't know. If I were to guess I would say she is probably 6 or 7 pounds but I could be way off in either direction. I will make that a monthly thing to do. I think I am going to breed the my NZD to my NZB. I would definitely have a better shot at her taking. With my Rex I definitely want to breed him soon so he can gain his experience. I wanted to try and get some broken New Zealand's using my Rex and the BNZ but I know there is more of a science to it then just that. I was hoping to use one of the kits but that plan went out the window.
Sage, Thank you for advice. I will leave her out in her own hutch and line the cage floor with the cardboard like your suggested. All of my rabbits are spoiled with free choice hay because it makes my wife feel better because it has been colder then usual here in eastern NC. I will update when and if my California doe (Kali) has her kits. Now with that being said can I or should I bring them in the house during the night and leave them out during the day? I don't want to beat a dead horse because I know this same question has been asked and answered hundreds of times.

 

[Sagebrush]

If you have a room that stays at a constant temp that would be okay to bring the kits into. Again we want to avoid big temp changes for them. I would also suggest, in case you have other critters in the house, a safe SECURE place to put the nest box so that little paws can't get a snack. I have found that if I put my nest box inside a larger carrier the cats can not reach the kits to hurt them.

 

[Zass]

If you have a room that stays at a constant temp that would be okay to bring the kits into. Again we want to avoid big temp changes for them. I would also suggest, in case you have other critters in the house, a safe SECURE place to put the nest box so that little paws can't get a snack. I have found that if I put my nest box inside a larger carrier the cats can not reach the kits to hurt them.

Not to contradict Sagebrush, but from my experience a temp change for nestlings isn't anywhere near as risky as it is for older buns. Ok, so that is actually like the definition of a contradiction, isn't it?
The nest holds enough warmth and humidity that the kits are much less likely to be shocked from a change. They will just kick off the bedding if they get too warm. The risk comes when you take the nest outside, because they might not be able to get covered back up well enough.

Of course, it's for the same reason that they probably won't need brought in at all.

How cold is it going to be? If you don't need to move the nest, I'd recommend against it. Only bring it in if there is something amiss, like not enough fur pulled.

 

[II Arrows]

I know its all a learning curve, its almost as if your damned if you do and damned if you don't. I'll just play it safe and keep them with the mama if in fact she is pregnant, ill just have to keep a more watchful eye on them for a while.

 

[Zass]

Yeah, a learning curve is a good way to describe it. With rabbits, there really is less control than with other types of livestock. If you have good does, then your not going to have a whole lot of trouble. If you have troublesome does...it doesn't really matter how good you are. You can't nurse those kits yourself. :razz:

I tend to think of "good breeders" as those who have already identified and eliminated all the pain-in-the-*** rabbits from their herd. Leaving only those ones who make their owners look good.

 

[michaels4gardens]

when you are set up, and have a good record keeping system, you will know when each doe is supposed to kindle, you can put the nest box in with her, make sure she has everything she needs [including privacy from us and our pets ] and let her do her job, -- if she fails -that is strike one, around here it is played like baseball, -- 3 strikes and you are out-- a person who wants to raise rabbits --should never keep any replacements from poor performers. If you will keep only your best for breeding-- eventually, you will not have to babysit any of them.
Most of us start out with less then stellar rabbits that were a product of multiple breeding errors, -- and were finally passed off on to us, -- it takes time to fix this---

 

[Dood]

If your does don't use the nest box as a toilet you can leave it in all the time. I find my does resting in it and it becomes a part of their territory instead of an invading foreign object that shows up a couple days before the are due :shrug:

Even when they use the box they still don't always get it right - I just had a first time doe have a lovely litter all in her nest box but with no fur :x so they were all chilled and even after I warmed them up and fostered them to another new mom they started to fade and I lost them all but on the bright side I split the surviving litter and gave 5 to the first timer and they all should be nice and plump

 

[II Arrows]

I thought about having Permanente nest boxes in their pens but I decided to let them have that little bit of extra room to move around. I've been keeping records in a little note book and i also have it on my phone calendar. I will be prepping kali's nest box today in hopes that she has kits on her due date on the 5th.

 

[SuburbanHomesteader]

I know its all a learning curve

Yes, it is. And you're learning.

I tend to think of "good breeders" as those who have already identified and eliminated all the pain-in-the-*** rabbits from their herd. Leaving only those ones who make their owners look good.

I agree. And it takes time. Time to build up your herd. Time to find a good breeder that has solid stock. Time to learn how to recognize a good breeder with solid stock. Time to get to a point where you can be "ruthless" in your culling.

Hang in there Arrows. It will all be worth it. Good luck to you!