Need help listing breeds w/ small litters

[Easy Ears]

What are some breeds that have small litters? My friend wants to get into breeding rabbits, but she's already had a litter of 8 that is a little much for her. Can you guys list some breeds that produce some smaller sized litters?

She doesn't want to do NDs because of peanuts, but is it possible to have papered NDs w/o the double dwarf gene to produce the peanuts?

 

[Dood]

It's not the breed it's the bloodline

My 3.6 pound 1/2 Netherland 1/2 Mini Lop had a litter of 9 last summer

Polish, Hollands, mini rex, mini satins, jersey woolies, lionheads also carry the dwarf gene

 

[Bad Habit]

The dwarf gene is what makes does have smaller litters. My false dwarf lionheads routinely give me litters of 6-9. My true dwarf lions give me litters of 4-6.

 

[akane]

My ND don't produce peanuts or max factor. The previous rabbits I had produced them every litter. I don't think it's just the dwarf gene (genes in my opinion) that make peanuts and max factor is a separate simple recessive gene. It depends on the breeding of the rabbits and also if you cross a dwarf buck to larger does you are much more likely to never see peanuts. Brood does cannot be shown but still have the correct ND characteristics so they are used to produce larger litters with less problems both for the doe and health of the kits. I get 4-6 a litter out of my best ND brood doe.

 

[ladysown]

polish will average three in a litter.

That average means some does will give you two, others will give you six but MOST will give three, possibly four.

Polish are NOT supposed to give you peanuts, but due to some folk introducing netherland dwarf into the lines, some polish will give you peanuts and others will not.

Best thing to do is ask good questions of breeders you are considering getting rabbits from and deciding from there what will or will not work for the given individual.

 

[Bad Habit]

I don't think it's just the dwarf gene (genes in my opinion) that make peanuts and max factor is a separate simple recessive gene.

Max factor and peanuts are 2 separate genes.

Max factor is a gene that was introduced as a recessive by a ND buck named Max, all rabbits who produce max factor kits are related to him in some way.

Peanuts are kits that got 2 copies of the dwarf gene. You can only get them if both buck and doe are true dwarfs. Breeding a false dwarf to a true dwarf, or two false dwarfs together prevent peanuts from being born.

 

[akane]

I didn't say they were the same. I said max factor is a simple recessive. I do not think there is one dwarf gene and I do not think it just takes 2 copies to make peanuts. It is not that simple in my experience. Some lines will throw peanuts all over and sometimes you can take a tiny buck and inbreed to all his offspring including those that look dwarf and never get peanuts. You just can't account for the entire size variation with 1 gene pair. When you cross a 3lb doe to a 1 1/2lb buck you don't get a litter of 1 1/2lb rabbits or 3lb rabbits. You get 1 1/2lb rabbits, 2 lb rabbits, 2 1/2lb rabbits, 3lb rabbits and everything inbetween. You also do not get a 50/50 split of rabbits that look dwarf and rabbits that don't even with many breedings to get the numbers from. It never evens out. Also if you breed an extra small dwarf you often get rabbits that are within weight requirements but that after breeding to many different partners never produces dwarf size offspring. Something else is keeping the size down than a dominant dwarf gene pair. I actually found ND breeding to be very complicated when it comes to size and peanuts.

 

[Bad Habit]

You're right Akane. I know nothing. I'll just go change my name to Jon Snow.

 

[Dood]

I understand what you're saying Akane

Polish are tiny but not (originally) dwarfed and Britannia Petites and Tans are not dwarfed (they'd loose their racy body type) so there must be other complex genes reducing size

Also in some countries they have banned the dwarf gene but still have the tiny cobby body shape of ND and HLops, it can be done but it's just easier with the dwarf and max factor genes to get the same effect (likely reason why dwarf was introduced into the Polish ) and not have as many culls or to keep breeding down the size

 

[Easy Ears]

Thanks everyone! Well, she purchased a ped. Chinchilla doe (5mo old) and plans on buying a buck to breed with in the spring. She was thinking to do a blue or black silver marten buck to breed to the Chinch doe....is that a good color combo? Any other suggestions? How long is too long to wait to breed? 8mo's is ideal, but I'm sure she won't breed until at least February...is that too long to wait?

 

[Dood]

What breed?

 

[Easy Ears]

ND

 

[Dood]

Silver marten will work and produce mostly chins but if the chinchilla carries self (or tan) you could get some silver martens

Any history on the parents or siblings or prior litters will help determine the chance of unshowable colours like frosty, totter or sable chin etc...

 

[imajpm]

Show lines that have not been focused on litter size. I have a Standard Satin doe from show lines who produces 2-5 kits usually. She is a meat/fur breed but that line has been modified away from meat production.

 

[Easy Ears]

Here is the pedigree for the doe:

 

[Dood]

The doe definitly carries dilute/blue from her squirrel (blue chinchilla) mother and her father definitely carried self so there is a 50% chance she has that gene as well

Blue silver martens are not a showable colour and a REALLY neat looking rabbit :cheesysmile:

 

[Easy Ears]

Thanks Dood! So my friend was wondering what is a list of colors she can expect to get from this doe if bred to a silver marten? (From what you can tell of her genes...I know a lot of it would depend on the father as well. )

 

[Dood]

Chinchilla

If the doe carries a recessive on the A-locus
Silver marten

If the buck carries dilute/blue
Squirrel

If the doe carries a recessive on the A-locus AND the buck carries dilute
Blue silver marten

And many many others