Need help identifying the colours of these babies!

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Ljslibby

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We have 5 adorable baby bunnies. I know 3 of them are REWs but I dont know the official colour name of the other two.

One is an orange/cream colour and the other is a cream with a white head mark and brown patches on its butt.

Mother is a Dutch x Lionhead and father is a Netherland dwarf x Lionhead, if that helps.

Unsure what their actual colours are as the mother is a REW and father is a BEW.b97e1b73-cbaa-4716-a711-2a57b9b91b0c.pngIMG_1292.jpg1720605961944.pngIMG_1290.jpg
 

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We have 5 adorable baby bunnies. I know 3 of them are REWs but I dont know the official colour name of the other two.

One is an orange/cream colour and the other is a cream with a white head mark and brown patches on its butt.

Mother is a Dutch x Lionhead and father is a Netherland dwarf x Lionhead, if that helps.

Unsure what their actual colours are as the mother is a REW and father is a BEW.
What a pretty litter!

Looks like you have an orange and a dilute (blue or lilac) harlequin. Stray white marks in this case, especially on the head, would likely be vienna marks (VM) coming from the vienna allele the BEW sire.

If the whites are REW, you know the BEW buck carries a copy of REW <c>. From the harlequin baby, you know that one or both of the parents carry harlequin <e(j)>. You also know both parents carry non-extension <e> because two of those are needed to make an orange.
 
What a pretty litter!

Looks like you have an orange and a dilute (blue or lilac) harlequin. Stray white marks in this case, especially on the head, would likely be vienna marks (VM) coming from the vienna allele the BEW sire.

If the whites are REW, you know the BEW buck carries a copy of REW <c>. From the harlequin baby, you know that one or both of the parents carry harlequin <e(j)>. You also know both parents carry non-extension <e> because two of those are needed to make an orange.

Thank you so much, that's really helpful and I adore that you explained the alleles of the parents too it really helps me understand, and its so incredibly fascinating! <3 I knew about the REW being c but knew nothing about any of the others!
 
We have 5 adorable baby bunnies. I know 3 of them are REWs but I dont know the official colour name of the other two.

One is an orange/cream colour and the other is a cream with a white head mark and brown patches on its butt.

Mother is a Dutch x Lionhead and father is a Netherland dwarf x Lionhead, if that helps.

Unsure what their actual colours are as the mother is a REW and father is a BEW.View attachment 42317View attachment 42323View attachment 42318View attachment 42321
Dang! Those babies are so pretty! Wish my purebreds gave those colors.
 
Taking a shot at the genotypes here with the info Alaska Satin gave, you have:

Doe: ____cc_d_eVV

Buck: ____Cc_d_evv (C is from the orange baby)

One of the two parents necessarily has A (because of the orange baby) and ej (because of the harlequin) but each may come from either of them.
Test breeding with a self-based rabbit can give you which one has A, and test breeding with a non-extension rabbit would give you which one has ej

As for the kits:
Harlequin: __Ccddej_Vv
Once that one grows more you can pull some coloured hairs to figure out if it's A (Agouti, has banded hairs) or a/at (self/otter, each hair has the same colour through the entire length)

REWs: ____cc___eVv
No way to know the rest of the alleles other than test breeding, though you know they are either ee or eje, and that there's 50% that they have at least one d and at least 25% that they have A.

Orange: A___Cc__eeVv
Not 100% how to distinguish black-based orange from brown-based orange. It also looks pretty lilac in one of the pictures but not so much in the other. If it's lilac then it would be A_bbCcddeeVv. In this case, both parents also have b.
 
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Taking a shot at the genotypes here with the info Alaska Satin gave, you have:

Doe: ____cc_d_eVV

Buck: ____Cc_d_evv (C is from the orange baby)

One of the two parents necessarily has A (because of the orange baby) and ej (because of the harlequin) but each may come from either of them.
Test breeding with a self-based rabbit can give you which one has A, and test breeding with a non-extension rabbit would give you which one has ej

As for the kits:
Harlequin: __Ccddej_Vv
Once that one grows more you can pull some coloured hairs to figure out if it's A (Agouti, has banded hairs) or a/at (self/otter, each hair has the same colour through the entire length)

REWs: ____cc___eVv
No way to know the rest of the alleles other than test breeding, though you know they are either ee or eje, and that there's 50% that they have at least one d and at least 25% that they have A.

Orange: A___Cc__eeVv
Not 100% how to distinguish black-based orange from brown-based orange. It also looks pretty lilac in one of the pictures but not so much in the other. If it's lilac then it would be A_bbCcddeeVv. In this case, both parents also have b.
Nice job! The logic exercise of genetic coding is addictive, eh? ;)

Just a few thoughts:

I agree that at least one of the parents must have an <A> and an <e(j)>. But it could also be true that either or both parents carry two copies of <A>(you know they both at least carry one <e>), so possibilities for each parent are
<AA>, <Aa>, or <aa>, and
<Ee(j)>, Correction <Ee>, <e(j)e> or <ee>.

The reason for this is that while a single harlequin in the dominant position <e(j)_> will be expressed in an agouti <A_>, it can also be expressed in a self <aa> if it is in the homozygous state <e(j)e(j)>. Since REW and BEW cover the effects of what's at the A and E loci, you can't really tell. And since there are only two kits (the harlie and the orange) that give you any hints at all, it's hard to make a calculation about which is the case.

So, a harlequin kit could be either <A_B_Ccdde(j)e> or <aaB_Ccdde(j)e(j)>. But I think you could settle on the first, since there does not seem to be a way to get an <e(j)e(j)> (corrected).

A dominant harlequin allele <e(j)_> blocks the pattern effects of agouti, so no matter what's at the A locus, you will not see agouti ring color or trim. Instead of the two colors being laid down in different places on each hair (ring color), harlequin causes the colors to be distributed on different hairs - some hairs get orange, some get black- i.e. patches of black and patches of orange. The trim disappears - so no light inner ears, jaw markings or light belly, either.

If the rabbit is an agouti, and the harlequin allele is in the recessive position <Ee(j)> you'll see a harlequinized agouti. It'll look like a castor (for example) with weird somewhat subtle patches of darker or lighter colors. This tends to show up especially on the ears, but sometimes is most obvious on the belly. There are some good examples of this here:
http://rabbitcolors.info/int/en/entry/show.html?id=639

And here is one from https://forestfolkrabbitry.wixsite.com/website/blank-page-1 that might show up in a future litter - a VM harlequinized chestnut:
1736799756819.jpeg

To make matters even more tenuous, either parent could be carrying a tan <a(t)>. In a harlequin with a dominant tan at the A locus <a(t)_>, you get what's called a torted harlequin - basically the harlequin looks smutty on the extremities, the same places a tort would be darker. In fact both parents could be carrying <a(t)>, but there's no evidence in the two kits we have to work with, so we can leave that aside.

One last comment. The BEW is definitely <vv>, but it's not certain that the REW dam is <VV> or the REW kits are <Vv>. The only thing we know is that the kits have at least one <v>, so I'd write their genotypes as <_v>. Any of the REW kits could be <Vv> or <vv>; there's no evidence either way. So, I would write the REW kits as <_ _ _cc _ _ _ _ _v> (corrected), with the understrike preceding the vienna <v> indicating it's not known whether they are <Vv> or vv>. And I'd write the REW dam as <_ _ _ _cc_d_eV_>.
 
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Nice job! The logic exercise of genetic coding is addictive, eh? ;)
100% addictive. My friends say I'm lost to the genotypes :LOL:


I caught a few things that may be wrong... maybe?
so possibilities for each parent are (...) <Ee(j)>, <e(j)e> or <ee>.
None of the parents could be <Ee(j)>, since there is an <ee> baby. One should be e(j)e and the other can be either <e(j)e> or <ee>
I would write the REW kits as <_ _ _CcD_ee_v>
<_ _ _ccD_ee_v> ;)

Regarding the <D> in there, do we know for sure that the orange baby is black/brown based and not lilac based? Otherwise I don't know where the <D> comes from in your REW genotype 😅

The reason for this is that while a single harlequin in the dominant position <e(j)_> will be expressed in an agouti <A_>, it can also be expressed in a self <aa> if it is in the homozygous state <e(j)e(j)>
I had NO IDEA about this. What would happen with a kit that is aa______e(j)e? Would it just look like a non-extension self?
EDIT: Couldn't wait - Torted harlequins, gotcha. They look kinda rough lol
 
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None of the parents could be <Ee(j)>, since there is an <ee> baby. One should be e(j)e and the other can be either <e(j)e> or <ee>
You're right! :)

I looked back at my notes and it should have said that the parents' possibilities were
<Ee>, <e(j)e> or <ee>.

If one parent was <Ee> the other would be <e(j)e>, which would yield <Ee(j)>, <Ee>, <e(j)e> and/or <ee>. There is no identifiable <E_> kit in this litter, but those REWs can be hiding just about anything; and phenotypes are the luck of the draw, so there may not have been any, anyway.

<_ _ _ccD_ee_v> ;)

Regarding the <D> in there, do we know for sure that the orange baby is black/brown based and not lilac based? Otherwise I don't know where the <D> comes from in your REW genotype 😅
The harlequin, I agree, looks like a dilute <dd>, but the orange does not. That is a dense color, so <D_>. That is nothing to do with black or chocolate, which revolves around the B locus. If the harlequin is lilac - dilute chocolate - it's <bbdd>. The orange may or may not be chocolate-based <bb>, but IMO it doesn't look dilute, so it would be <D_>.

Having said that, however, there's no way to know whether only one or both parents are <D_>, and I agree that it is not justifiable to call the REW kits <D_> (and you caught my C typo, too). And...I don't know why I made them <ee>. I'm thinking I cut and pasted that genotype (wildly incorrectly!). Revised REW kit genotype: <_ _ _cc_ _ _ _ _v>.

I obviously need to spend more time proofreading my posts than I did today. :ROFLMAO: Thanks for making me look again!
 
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