Need Help! Doe with soft poop

[karenm99]

My doe is having some soft/loose stools, formed but sticky. Started 2-3 days ago. First noticed on top of kindling box, but now I notice a lot of her poop is sitting on the cage wire instead of falling through.
Background:
My first rabbit (of course), got her 6 wks ago
She was bred when I got her, kindled 12 days ago
Feeding "Producers Pride"(15% protien, 15-18% fiber)rabbit feed from Tractor Supply, Timothy Hay, and occasional broccoli sprout or carrot stick
She ate very little during her pregnancy, like 4 oz a day, now she empties her feeder of 6-8 oz twice a day. Am I giving her too much? She's nursing 6 kits. Also trying to keep her hay full. I was giving her carrots as treats, but changed to brocolli for less carbohydrate.
Am I feeding something wrong or could she just be stressed because of the kits or something else? Am just worrying needlessly?
Thanks for any advice!

 

[Miss M]

Hi, Karen!

I would do the following:

Stop all treats.
Give her only rolled oats, hay, and water for 2 - 3 days.
Check pellets and hay for freshness (smell deeply for stale or moldy smell).

Hopefully, after a day or two, the soft stools will stop. Since she is nursing, you don't want to keep her off of pellets for too long, but you don't want her to get any worse, either. Rabbits can go downhill very quickly, so it is key to act quickly when you notice something off. But don't worry yourself sick! You should be able to handle this just fine, especially with the help of the awesome people here. Kudos to you for noticing something was amiss! It isn't easy with rabbits -- they hide their ailments because they are prey animals.

You are not feeding her too much. Pregnant and nursing does should usually be free-fed their pellets or other feed. She needs it to make enough milk.

It doesn't sound like you give much in the way of treats, but some rabbits just do not handle treats well at all. Or maybe she just can't handle broccoli, even in small amounts. It is a brassica, and those can cause problems for rabbits. Some are able to adjust to them, others just never can.

She has been on the Producer's Pride the whole time?

Good luck!! :clover: And don't worry... this can happen to even the most seasoned breeder.

I would not give her any more treats for several weeks after her system straightens back out. Even then, especially while she has a litter, I'd probably not give her any brassicas (broccoli, kale, cabbage, etc.). You can try very small amounts of brassicas again when she has no litter, and you can deal just with her... and not with pregnancy/nursing hormones.

 

[TMTex]

I agree with Miss M. Especially stop giving her broccoli.

Going back to the pellets should be ok after a few days, but I'd avoid broccoli until she's completely healthy. Even then, don't give her very much if any at all.

Nursing does need more food than dry does, so it's expected that her appetite is up. I free feed my nursing does with Manna Pro or Producer's Pride. Both are good quality pellets.

 

[akane]

Broccoli and cruciferous vegetables http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruciferous_vegetables are not a good choice for animals. They can cause gas leading to bloat and digestive upset. Carbs are not bad for rabbits. They are not humans. They are designed to digest grains and fiber sources.

Most likely you are seeing sticky poop because she is eating so many pellets and forming too many cecotropes. The droppings they normally eat to recycle nutrients. It happens with rabbits fed only pellet diets. Cut the pellets and add in a grain. I would choose whole oats over rolled oats if she will eat them because they are higher in fiber and lower in fat than rolled oats/oatmeal. Some rabbits though are picky and will only eat rolled oats/oatmeal and not whole oats. I alternate filling my feeders with whole grain and then pellets and then whole grain with loose hay or hay cubes depending on the rabbit. It avoids the excessive cecotropes, cuts pellet costs, and is not unhealthy for the rabbits. There's quite a few on here who feed oats, hay, and mineral supplement to replace pellets. They fill up faster on less grain and hay because of the lack of filler found in pellets.

You can also give branches ( http://www.mdvaden.com/bird_page.shtml ) for her to chew on and see the sticky at the top of the natural feeding section for a much better idea of what to feed instead of store veggies which are mostly unhealthy for rabbits. They are herbivores but they are not vegetarians. If you do buy from the store herbs are a better choice like cilantro or parsley. Small amounts of root veggies like carrot and radish are ok but high in sugar and carrots can cause vit a overdose. Waste products are actually even better. Banana peels and corn husks.

 

[karenm99]

Miss M, Rolled oats like oatmeal? Should I replace her pelllets with it? And it's okay to give her something she's never had, it won't mess up her digestive system even more?
She has been on the producers pride since I got her. Also been eating brocolli with no problems, but I will stop giving it to her.
I live in the city and don't have access to animal feeds except what I can get at pet stores and Tractor Supply.
Thanks again

 

[TMTex]

Yes, she means oatmeal. Just make sure it's the regular kind and not the "instant" kind.

And yes, replace the pellets with it, but only until her poop looks ok again. She needs the nutrition that the pellets give. The pellets have everything your rabbit needs to be healthy.

 

[akane]

Rolled oats are just the animal feed version of oatmeal. You can get it in 50lb bags at feed stores. However old fashioned oatmeal (not quick or flavored oats) will work just more expensive. The only real difference is the price and that rolled oats isn't as screened for same size particles and oat dust as grocery store oatmeal.

You can order branches online in bulk for cheap. Here's where we get ours http://chinnychewsandparrotstoo.weebly.com/ . If there's a nursery, vinery, or apple orchard near you stop by and ask when they trim things and if you can have the trimmed branches.

 

[Miss M]

Most likely you are seeing sticky poop because she is eating so many pellets and forming too many cecotropes. The droppings they normally eat to recycle nutrients.

You know, I hadn't even thought of cecotropes.

Karen, the sticky poops you are seeing... are they smaller than normal, and have you seen them stuck to each other, clustered together like grapes (or a mulberry)? They may be smooshed from her stepping on them, but you should be able to tell.

If so, then these are cecotropes. They would also be rather stinky, whereas regular poops really don't have much smell, unless they get wet.

Cecotropes are, as Akane said, normally eaten (the rabbit version of a cow chewing the cud), so the rabbit can finish digesting its nutrients. Rabbits will occasionally not eat one, but if you are seeing more of them, it is an indication of a too-rich diet. I would think that would be difficult for a nursing doe, but I imagine it's possible. I'm not sure how to fix that with a nursing doe. :thinking: You would definitely need input from some of our more experienced members.

Quite true that oats, whether rolled or whole, from a feed store would be much cheaper per pound than old-fashioned oatmeal from a grocery store... however, I was keeping in mind that we're dealing with only one rabbit.

One other thing -- there's nothing wrong with Timothy hay for bunnies, but in most places, it's a hard hit on the wallet (especially in those tiny Oxbow bags). Any regular horse hay that has been kept under cover (not one of those bales you see sitting in the weather) would be fine for a rabbit, and usually much, much less expensive. I have fed Alicia Bermudagrass hay, and currently I'm feeding... um... oh nuts... what is it? Something I got from a local farmer for $5 per 75-lb bale.

 

[TMTex]

I have fed Alicia Bermudagrass hay, and currently I'm feeding... um... oh nuts... what is it? Something I got from a local farmer for $5 per 75-lb bale.

Coastal, perhaps? I feed horse quality coastal instead of timothy. It's about $8.00 - $10.00 for a 75 pound square bale here. If I was going to feed timothy hay, I'd just feed dollar bills straight to the rabbit and cut the middle man out.

As far as this rolled oats thing you speak of, I don't think I've ever seen it. I just feed regular Quaker Oats to my bunnies. Do the rolled oats make good oatmeal? We eat a lot of oatmeal here and though it's not expensive, I wouldn't mind cutting some food costs down if it tastes as good.

 

[karenm99]

Thanks everybody, the oats seem to have done the trick.
If it was cecotropes could she have just been too full of pellets to eat them? It was a lot, not smaller, just stickier.
Haywise; all I'm able to find is the timothy, the dollar bills TM speaks of, and alfalfa. Everything I've read says that alfalfa is too high in protein to feed daily...
Again, I'm in a basically metropolitan area where there are no feed stores. Our feed and seed sells sports memoribilia, no feed, few seeds. There are horse farms nearby, but thats pretty much it.
Anyway, thanks again to everyone.

 

[Miss M]

Great!

If the poops were not smaller, then they were not cecotropes. Cecotropes are at most half the size of regular poops... really, probably smaller (been a while since I saw one). And you usually see them stuck together. But the individual bits are noticeably smaller than regular poops.

Haywise; all I'm able to find is the timothy, the dollar bills TM speaks of, and alfalfa. Everything I've read says that alfalfa is too high in protein to feed daily...
Again, I'm in a basically metropolitan area where there are no feed stores. Our feed and seed sells sports memoribilia, no feed, few seeds. There are horse farms nearby, but thats pretty much it.

Ouch, that's right... city. I just moved out of the city a year ago. I had to make trips to another nearby town's feed store for feed and hay... and they concentrated more on jewelry and Lodge cast $$$$$ iron cookware than on feed and seed, though they did have it.

That Timothy is so pricey, it might be worth your while to knock on the door of one of those horse farms, and ask if you can buy a bale off of them now and then. Make sure you specify SQUARE bale, LOL... those round bales are huge! You'd be a long time using a square bale with one bunny, as it is.

Coastal, perhaps? I feed horse quality coastal instead of timothy. It's about $8.00 - $10.00 for a 75 pound square bale here.

No... not Coastal... though I did feed Coastal in Florida. Can't remember what it was called... I think it started with an "f", but it isn't fescue.

As far as this rolled oats thing you speak of, I don't think I've ever seen it. I just feed regular Quaker Oats to my bunnies. Do the rolled oats make good oatmeal? We eat a lot of oatmeal here and though it's not expensive, I wouldn't mind cutting some food costs down if it tastes as good.

Well, the old-fashioned oatmeal is rolled oats, and I have been tending to say "rolled oats" instead of "old-fashioned kitchen oatmeal, not the quick oats", because it's shorter. :roll: But I have apparently sacrificed clarity which I don't want to do, so I'll go the long-winded way in the future. :lol:

As far as using horse rolled oats for people, I found a post by someone who said he always put some in his pocket when he fed the horses, and took it to school for snacks. He lost a pocket to a horse once, when it discovered his stash.

My guess would be that it isn't as well cleaned, or as well screened for dust. So there may be some husk material in there, etc. But I would also guess that it's only recently that there was a difference between horse oats and people oats. As long as the only thing on the ingredients list is "rolled oats" or "steamed rolled oats", I wouldn't have a problem trying it, personally. I've thought about it myself, actually. <br /><br />__________ Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:20 am __________<br /><br />I thought it started with an "f", but I believe it's Bahia grass hay I have now.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

I have fed Alicia Bermudagrass hay, and currently I'm feeding... um... oh nuts... what is it? Something I got from a local farmer for $5 per 75-lb bale.

Coastal, perhaps? I feed horse quality coastal instead of timothy. It's about $8.00 - $10.00 for a 75 pound square bale here. If I was going to feed timothy hay, I'd just feed dollar bills straight to the rabbit and cut the middle man out.

:lol: :lol: :lol: Yep, Timothy is like baled cash here in Texas! We use Coastal Bermuda Hay...

As far as this rolled oats thing you speak of, I don't think I've ever seen it. I just feed regular Quaker Oats to my bunnies. Do the rolled oats make good oatmeal? We eat a lot of oatmeal here and though it's not expensive, I wouldn't mind cutting some food costs down if it tastes as good.

It's the same, just not cleaned as well....not sure if you would want to eat it yourself or if there is a way to clean it better.

 

[TMTex]

Regarding rolled oats vs oatmeal...

My guess would be that it isn't as well cleaned, or as well screened for dust. So there may be some husk material in there, etc.

It's the same, just not cleaned as well....not sure if you would want to eat it yourself or if there is a way to clean it better.

Thanks, folks. I guess I'll stick with regular oatmeal for now.