Natural vs Antibiotic Pasteurella treatment (happy ending)

[SA Farm]

On September 14, I picked up 2 pedigreed does (sisters) to add to my rabbitry. The exchange was a little questionable, but the rabbits looked healthy, if underweight, at point of pick-up, so brought them home and I quarantined immediately.
Awfully glad I did, as the next day, I noticed that both rabbits were sneezing. As they were in all-wire cages, it seemed unlikely that it was allergies :angry:
I added organic ACV to their water - a larger dose than usual (~2 tbsp to a liter as opposed to the usual gallon) and kept an eye on them.
Then next day (2 days after bringing them home), the dreaded white snot appeared :x
I considered buying medications for them, but, out of curiosity, I decided to treat them differently and record it for future reference. Thought I'd share it for those interested (especially since they were sisters and showed the same symptoms at the same time). I do believe it was a mild form and I caught it quickly, so that may have quite a bit to do with the results, but judge for yourself.

Doe #1 was given a handful of plantain (4-5 large leaves) and dandelion (5-8 large leaves), and (literally) a pinch of dried oregano on her feed daily. Doe #2 was treated with prescribed antibiotics.

Day 1 of treatment: Both does still snotty and sneezing.
Day 2 of treatment: Doe #1 still snotty, but less sneezing. Doe #2 was the same.
Day 3 of treatment: Doe #1 no longer snotty, less sneezing (discharge clear). Doe #2 was sneezing less, otherwise the same.
Day 4 of treatment: Same
Day 5 of treatment: Doe #1 no longer sneezing or at least infrequently enough for me not to notice. Doe #2 same.

Sept. 29: Nearly 2 weeks after we brought home the two does. Doe #1 now considered healthy and is doing fine though still in quarantine to be on the safe side. Doe #2 still has no real change from treating with antibiotics (one day clear, one day white snot, no quitting), so I switched her to the natural treatment today.
(Gave brief thought to continuing just to see if she would recover on the antibiotics, but don't want to lose her.)

Oct. 3: Doe #2 finally had a clear nose this morning. No clear or white discharge! I will continue with the oregano, plantain, and dandelion treatment until I'm sure she's in the clear. Doe #1 on normal dose of ACV now and given a handful of mixed greens daily as do all my rabbits.

Hope this is helpful for others

 

[Sagebrush]

Thank you so much SA Farm. I just came in from finding Blue Bell with white snot on her nose, no matting on the fur on her forelegs and no sneezing before today. I am going to try your natural method and hope it works. She was bred 10 days ago.

 

[Zass]

Even if the symptoms disappear, I wouldn't sell those bunnies or take them out of quarantine!

Part of the reason that pasteurella is considered so devastating is because once a rabbit has shown susceptibility to it, it can re-cur at any point those rabbits ever become stressed or anything else happens that may compromise their immune systems. Like kindling, or traveling to a new home.

Your herbs probably gave their immune systems a boost, just like eating healthy is great for our own immune systems.

 

[michaels4gardens]

Even if the symptoms disappear, I wouldn't sell those bunnies or take them out of quarantine!

Part of the reason that pasteurella is considered so devastating is because once a rabbit has shown susceptibility to it, it can re-cur at any point those rabbits ever become stressed or anything else happens that may compromise their immune systems. Like kindling, or traveling to a new home.

Your herbs probably gave their immune systems a boost, just like eating healthy is great for our own immune systems.

I have successfully treated it with Big Mountain sage, and garlic chives, -- but-- Zass is right

 

[ottersatin]

Please read this
PASTEURELLA [SNUFFLES]

Many breeders believe that all rabbits carry the Pasteurella multocidia organism in their respiratory tract. This is not true! Though some may indeed carry the infection, there are many which do not. {This is why I breed toward disease resistance. If any rabbit shows signs of infection they are culled] Pasturella manifests itself in many forms. The most common is what is referred to as snuffles. This is a purulent discharge from the nose. Should you see matting on the inside front paws you can most assuredly blame Pasteurella.

.Symptoms
The first signs of the disease are sneezing and discharge from the nose and or eyes. Not every sneeze is indicative of the presents of Pasteurella. A rabbit may sneeze when it gets water up it's nose while drinking, or it may have an allergy to something in the area. Hay dust, colognes etc. These sneezes will have a clear watery discharge or none at all. If there is persistant sneezing with matting of the inside of the front paws and a colored discharge from the nose or eyes it is safe to assume the rabbit has a Pasteurella infection.. This is an extremely contagious disease for which there is NO CURE! There are treatments which will mask the symptoms but the rabbit remains contagious. Any rabbit which you treat places your whole herd at risk of infection. The Pasteurella germ can be carried on your clothing and person. It is of extreme importance that you change your clothes and wash theroughly before going near any other rabbits. Isolate any sick rabbit immediately and care for the herd first and the isolated animal last. Disinfect it's cage and any other equipment the rabbit came in contact with.

TREATMENTS
Rabbits can be treated with a number of antibiotics but to this point none have been successful in bringing about a cure. The best treatment for Pasteurella is prevention. Through A.R.B.A. [American Rabbit Breeders Association] they are trying to develop a cure for snuffles, but it is still a long way off. For now, strict sanitation, good ventilation and culling will go a long way in helping to prevent the spread of this dreaded disease.

PREVENTION
Ventilation is important in snuffles control since both humidity an ammonia are involved in the spread and growth of this condition. Ammonia is present in rabbit urine, having it build up in the atmosphere has a bad effect on both humans and rabbits. If you can smell it while walking through your rabbitry, think how it is effecting your rabbits. By removing the urine and feces from the rabbitry you are decreasing the amount of ammonia in the surrounding area.

Playing with this disease, is playing with FIRE!
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

 

[SA Farm]

Thanks for the input. I have no intention of taking either rabbit out of quarantine at this time.
This is the first and hopefully last time I've ever dealt with Pasteurella.
Should I cull the does even though they haven't got symptoms anymore, then? I don't particularly want to, but if they are contagious when they are, by all appearances, healthy, I don't see much point in keeping them...?

 

[ottersatin]

Watch the offspring very carefully,
after a good long while the ones that do not show any signs of illness are
the ones you want to retain as possible future breeders. They are the ones
that most likely possess resistance to the disease. keep them, use them
but all the while keep a close eye for any signs of illness/ weakness of their immune system.
Eventually you WILL create a herd of disease resistant rabbits.
It is not easy and you must be quite ruthless at times, but it WILL eventually
pay off in high dividends.
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

 

[Zass]

I'll be candid here.

After I culled my entire herd for sneezing one year, I returned to the breeder who sold me the first rabbit that had sneezed for my replacement stock.

The #1 reason? Her rabbits were NOT sick. She had a whole barn full of vital and healthy rabbits. She allowed me to inspect them carefully, check their paws for matting, and listen as long as I wanted.

The sneezing rabbit was from an american chinchilla trio, different bloodlines from everything else in her barn, and I noticed she didn't keep them too long either. But I truly believe her when she said that she had never heard one sneeze in her barn. She also doesn't use antibiotics.

One thing was certain, her rabbits were resistant, and mine had not been.

I could have tried to find unexposed rabbits, like my herd must have initially been composed of, but...I really didn't want to repeat the tragedy when I brought in new stock.

I replaced my rabbits with what I thought to be resistant rabbits. And actually, we still trade rabbits frequently. (We both still quarantine, just in case.)
As far as I'm concerned, it's panned out.

I've had those rabbits and their kits for several years now. Some purebred stock from her went to shows and back, and kindled repeatedly with no problems. Either they had never been infected, or more likely, my guess was spot on, and they were not susceptible to the disease.

Another factor may be stress related. I've been very carefully buying and selecting for rabbits that do not easily become stressed. Culling anyone too jumpy or fearful, or nervous. Aggression falls into this category, since much rabbit aggression is fear provoked
Perhaps they won't suffer as much of a drop in their immune systems if they simply do not feel the same amount of stress that another rabbit might? Well, that's just speculation.

A couple years later, I have had one doe from her barn break with sneezing. She was housed underneath a velveteen lop that was born here from out-of-state lines who sneezed first.

I truly believe it was triggered by an environmental problem involving too much humidity, ammonia, mold, or irritating smoke from close neighbors that were burning plastics (until I reported them, and their landlord (who did the same thing), and the new tenants, because everyone mistakes that backyard fire pit for a plastics incinerator for some reason...this was ongoing ALL SUMMER LONG, but it's finally over) I also made some major changes to the rabbitry structure, completely replacing the floor with gravel, limestone and sand, and improving drainage from the hillside.

I culled those two sneezers fast, despite being my favorite doe, and one of my favorite doeling kits. Because those ones no longer had an immune system that was able to fight it off. Even if I had gotten them better...when would it return?

In comparison...none of the other rabbits I had here produced white snot. A few did dry sneeze or had clear mucous, but it cleared right up when the environmental problem was taken care of. That was all several months ago, and I've had no problems since. Their immune systems did not succumb to a bacterial infection, despite being irritated.
That is what my herd needs.

I did save kits from the litter my Pancake had at the time, because none of them had any respiratory problems, and still do not at 4 months old.
We'll see what happens when I breed them. If pregnancy or kindling causes a drop in their immune systems and they sneeze, I'll cull ruthlessly, and re-build my herd from rabbits that do not.

 

[SA Farm]

Thanks, Zass. I think I've decided to keep doe #1 and breed her and see how she goes, and like you, cull relentlessly if she or her potential future kits have problems. Doe #2 had white snot again this morning, so she's going to be culled as she's clearly unable to fight it off sufficiently (Ill and symptomatic for 3 weeks). Sad, but that's why I don't name them until after quarantine
Doe #1 will be named soon since she's been symptom free for 2 weeks, 2 more and she'll have a name

I tried to get in touch with the breeder (as soon as the symptoms started) and I haven't gotten a response...so...yeah. <br /><br /> -- Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:20 pm -- <br /><br /> Just a quick update for this thread as it's been quite a while!

Doe #1 was named and added to the herd. Two large and healthy litters later, there was absolutely no return of any symptoms in her or any problems in the kits born or that I kept back from her and no issues in the rest of my rabbits either.
Since deciding to move, she has been sold (full history given) and is still doing great!

I don't recommend doing what I did if you have a lot to lose, but for my situation it worked out and I just wanted to share that

 

[Miss M]

I did not see this thread originally... very interesting!

 

[MaggieJ]

I've always credited the large amount of weeds we fed to the rabbits with the maintenance of their good health. I do believe that parasites are kept under control through feeding certain natural items and that the rabbits' immune system is better equipped to stave off illness.

This site has some interesting information, although it is less specific than I would prefer: http://www.ethnobiomed.com/content/pdf/ ... 9-7-21.pdf