Murderous Doe? What to do?

[hrabbot]

My black NZ kindled last night or this morning. She hadn't even pulled hair last night, so I wasn't expecting an imminent birth. Just now I went out to check on them and she had pulled a moderate amount of hair into her box. When I opened the hutch to check for buns, she jumped in the nest box right away and started squeaking at me. I removed her and investigated. 5 cold dead, 1 of which was half eaten (looks that way anyhow) and 2 alive but seemingly injured. They were marked with a bit of blood that didn't appear to be from the birth (looked fresher than I would expect).

I often hear that bad first time mothers should be given a second shot - does that apply here? Do I need to re-breed her immediately if the other kits die off?

 

[Zass]

If you have other similarly aged kits you can foster, either way, you can re-breed right away and just wean the kits at 4 weeks. It won't tax her to be pregnant while feeding only two kits.

I'd make sure there aren't any predators or rats frightening her.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Sometimes first timers get a little overzealous when cleaning their kits. They routinely eat the afterbirth anyway, and some does just keep going. :x

Have you warmed the "dead" kits up or checked the color of their toenails? The saying here is that "they aren't dead until they are warm and dead". If you see dark blood in the quicks of their nails they are dead, but if it is pink, they are still alive.

If you only save the two or even a couple more, I would rebreed her immediately, and hope she does better next time.

 

[hrabbot]

I have a silver fox doe with a ~2 week old litter of 9. There are a couple of runts among them, and I haven't had success getting her milk to let down when I manually flip her to feed the runts. I wasn't thinking she could handle the other 2. What do you think?

 

[Zass]

Newborns will not be able to compete with older kits at feeding time. Fostering works best if they are about the same age, and the younger, the better.
Instead of flipping her, try putting the rabbit on your thighs (lets you have two hands on the bunny this way) and allowing the kits to sit between your knees, underneath the doe, to nurse. It's a bit more natural of a position for them. It works best if you can catch her right before her nursing time, when she has the most milk.

 

[MaggieJ]

A two-week age gap between the litters might be too much. I'd leave them with their own mother and hope for the best. Rebreed her now while she is likely to be receptive. She will likely do better next time.

The fact that she jumped into the box and squeaked at you makes me think that either a) she is overprotective but confused or, b) has been harassed or frightened by a predator, as Zass suggested. A lot of people have trouble with rats because it is easy for them to get into the average cage. Any opening bigger than 1"x1" is an open invitation, including uncovered J-feeders.

 

[hrabbot]

OK I'll get her bred tonight, and again in the morning. My SF did so well with her first litter, I was expecting great things from here on out. I suppose this kind of thing happens. Hopefully not too often

Also, what is up with this? ---> ancake:

 

[MamaSheepdog]

OK I'll get her bred tonight, and again in the morning.

It isn't necessary to rebreed several hour later. Just let the buck cover her two or three times. Even once will do the trick with my does.

My SF did so well with her first litter, I was expecting great things from here on out. I suppose this kind of thing happens. Hopefully not too often

Yeah, it happens. Most of the time they do just fine though.

Also, what is up with this? ---> ancake:

That's Oolong the rabbit. His owner photographed him with all kinds of things on his head, and he became an internet sensation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oolong_%28rabbit%29

 

[hrabbot]

Awesome. I'm getting used to showing up late to internet memes.

I guess I may have gained some old-school knowledge that needs reshaping - i.e. re-breeding at 10 hour interval.

Thanks for your help!

 

[DumansArk]

Also, what is up with this? ---> ancake:

That's Oolong the rabbit. His owner photographed him with all kinds of things on his head, and he became an internet sensation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oolong_%28rabbit%29

Oh wow! For years I just thought the Smilie of the rabbit with the pancake was just that... a wacky funny thing on RT to make you smile

Oolong photographed with pancakes, on his head no less, becomes an internet sensation. Of course!

 

[mystang89]

I'd rebreed her again since this was her first time and it seems she at least tried to build a nest. Some people even give her 3 tries before its off to freezer camp. My patience level generally will hold out for 2 tries before I say, "OFF with their HEADS!"

 

[HoppyMeal]

I had a Doe recently with her first litter had 9. she pulled some hair and would get defensive when I checked the kits and covered them up. She would uncover the kits. I came out the next morning and she had let 6 die because she uncovered them. I tried putting dryer lint in the box. she would pull it off. She had not pulled anymore hair, so I took a rabbit skin from the freezer and shaved it. every time until the kits were 2 weeks old when I checked the kits I would put hair in the box 2-4 times a day and at night I would bring the kits in the house for about 4 days. The 3 remaining kits lived. Last week she had a litter of 10. She is doing everything right and is becoming a good mother. She is a NZ cross. Good Luck

 

[hrabbot]

OK well this misguided doe has kindled again, 2 super healthy kits. Two!? What!? It's pretty disappointing. Would it have anything to do with the immediate rebreeding?

 

[mystang89]

I don't think so. I've rebred my doe 3 times in a roll only a week after she kindled and she had 9 then 10 after that.

 

[hrabbot]

She's starting to impress me as a good candidate for the crock pot.

 

[Miss M]

Some rabbits just have other purposes for which they are suited. :chef:

 

[MamaSheepdog]

When did she deliver the two kits? Sometimes they get startled by something and will stop their labor for hours or even days. She may still surprise you with more kits.

 

[hrabbot]

She kindled last night. Maybe there are more! That would be great. Thanks for that bit of knowledge.