Mr. Chinchilla's rescue--general observations, questions

[DogCatMom]

Mr. Chinchilla Rabbit was part of a large confiscation effort in northern California last June. Between my phone calls to the Animal Care & Services shelter and the HRS chapter in the city/county involved, as well as my in-person conversations last Saturday at the adoption itself, I pieced together what seem to be the main drivers for the confiscation. What I don't know is HOW the rabbits came to the attention of The Law.

I will state going in that I support this specific confiscation because the rabbits were exposed to 108*F direct sun with no shade and no way of getting to shade as well as no ventilation or moving air (i.e., no fans). There were also no visible water bowls or bottles; I do not know whether there was a watering system. But having been to a rabbit show two weeks ago where rabbits in their carriers were in some stage of heat distress, I do believe the rabbits were at risk due to the heat, lack of shade, and lack of water.

This much I support.

However, I'm not so fond of the additional circumstances that both the shelter and HRS were eager to pour forth.

Both parties were quick to tell me, a potential adopter unknown to them, that "these rabbits were spared from becoming someone's dinner." Since I view my inability to look with equanimity at rabbit on my plate as a personal weakness, this wasn't the overwhelmingly successful tactic they hoped it would be. ("Oh. Were there other circumstances involved?") That's when I heard about the heat, lack of shade, etc. ("Oh, that's awful! 108 degrees!")

I was told that this confiscation involved 46 rabbits, "many" of them juveniles and only a few of them adults. The rabbit I've now adopted turns out to have been the primary buck and likely the sire of most of the juveniles. The family who was raising these rabbits outdoors had 14 members living at the one house (size of house and lot unknown to me). I don't know whether the house was within city or merely county limits. Previous confiscations in this region have elicited the information that some meat-raisers feed their rabbits only on bread, because 1) it's supposedly cheap, and 2) they like the taste of the rabbits that way. Whether these particular rabbits were being fed only on bread wasn't revealed to me.

Question #1: Why/how would people raising rabbits as food think that "bread only" diets would make for does, at least, who could give birth to healthy kits? Or bucks who could sire healthy kits??? I also doubt whether kits raised on bread after weaning would have any bone or muscle that one associates with healthy animals. I mean, chickens being birds have hollow bones...wouldn't rabbits fed this way pretty much have osteoporosis from the get-go?

Also. I went to that HRS chapter's website and dug back through PDFs of their newsletters. One of their chapter members wrote a self-congratulatory article several years back about how she persuaded a Central American family to stop raising rabbits in their back yard for sale ($10 each, sold via hand-held signs on the street). My reading of this article came either very shortly before or very soon after I read a thread on another rabbit forum where a woman from a small Caribbean country was being browbeaten because she hadn't taken her clearly ill rabbit (she posted photos) to a rabbit-savvy vet. Not until I posted on that thread about the way "privileged North Americans" (my exact phrase) were "hammering" a woman whose entire country might not have a single rabbit-savvy vet did the chorus abate.

The common dynamic in these two incidents seemed to be (pardon me if I speak a little too clearly here): probable Anglo woman, probably college graduate but almost surely some college education, coming down on people from Latino cultures. The 46-rabbit confiscation was also from a family "from another country, where they're used to raising rabbits," but I don't know whether it was a European country, a Latin-American country, or somewhere else (China?).

Question #2: Of course, this "different from us" sentiment could have been behind the laying of information to The Law in the 46-rabbit case. But would The Law have acted so swiftly and irrevocably had the "perpetrators" not been of a different culture? Are warnings ever issued, the equivalent of traffic "fix-it" tickets? If so, there is no record in the public press that such occurred in this case. Maybe this is a state-by-state question....

Question #3: What is the experience of members of RT, either personally or of friends/neighbors/fellow rabbit-folk of your acquaintance? Is this cultural difference I observed in these cases a core source of friction in the "rescuer vs. breeder" divide? Or were the commonalities of these two, and possibly three, cases simply coincidence? (It may be that this dynamic varies across North America; I'd welcome input on that aspect of the question, too.)

Thank you.

 

[desertcat]

I haven't noticed much of a cultural divide, but most of the ARA folks in my part of the world (few & far between )are concerned with horses.
What I have noticed with the rabbits is an age divide. 50+ have no trouble making a rabbit for dinner, and have a little problem understanding why someone would want them for a house pet. The younger (adult) crowd is horrified at the thought of rabbits as food...which my contributions to church pot lucks a touchy subject!

 

[Wheels]

I'm going to give a go at this -

Q1 - the bread I'm going to guess has more to do with - 'That's what my mom used to do' than practical application. Probably they knew someone who had fed the rabbits on bread for a reason and that actual reason has been lost. BUT that's what 'mom' used to do and so it continues. There is a fellow down the road that feeds his hogs slop -and makes his slop from grocery store cast offs, Bread, Ham, hamburger, old produce - you name it and for him this is perfectly fine because that's what his 'daddy' did. For the most part the Hogs look fine but that's not how I'd feed pigs.

- I agree with desertcat on the age observation. Older folks of any social class are darn near giddy when they find out I have rabbits. Younger (under thirty-ish) are usually appalled UNLESS (and thankfully I live in Arkansas and the UNLESS is more the norm) they grew up rural and/or a hair or more below blue collar. Then they usually say something about how easy they are to skin, they used to have meat rabbits growing up, or when we'll have rabbit and dumplings?

Q2 - I don't know about warnings vs confiscation, Case by case basis I suppose, some I agree with and some I feel that a warning and ACTUAL Education would have gone much farther! Just because you tell someone to fix something doesn't mean they Know exactly how. I think there is a place for animal 'social work' if you will... although that could go horribly wrong as well...

Q3 - I agree with your thought on this - I think in many cases the rescue collective has never walked a mile in the shoes of who they rescue from and have no empathy.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

I am surprised they let you adopt the rabbit unneutered...if that is what they did.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

In his book Storey's Guide to Raising Rabbits, Bob Bennet makes the observation that rabbits are looked on as pets in good economic times, but are considered livestock when the economy is poor. In my almost two years on this forum, I have noticed this reflected in our new members. Many people are starting meat rabbit herds as a hedge against rising food costs.

As for feeding bread as a sole diet, I am sure it is not ideal, but your Mr. Chinchilla doesn't look much the worse for it, if indeed his former owners followed that protocol.

They (the "meat breeders") likely buy their bread from "day old" bread shops, making it a very economical option. I did the same as a teenager when I was raising rodents, although the diet was supplemented with horse sweet feed and cast off vegetables that the produce man at our local grocery store saved for us. My mice and rats were amazingly healthy and sleek little creatures on that diet.

I would hesitate to believe that the owners truly were feeding only bread to their breeding rabbits. I bet they also fed castoff vegis, but due whether to a language barrier or the fact that no other feed was present at the time of the confiscation, this was their conclusion. If indeed they were feeding a large amount of fresh vegetables, the rabbits may have been able to obtain adequate water from that. My friend and I actually found that our rodents could do without a water source if given plentiful vegis high in water content.

Most rodents and rabbits in the wild drink very little water, mostly obtaining it from morning dew or vegetation. We have a huge population of assorted rodents, rabbits, and hares in our area, and it is dry as a bone here right now. Conventional wisdom would indicate that there should have been a mass die off, especially since there is very little green vegetation here currently- mostly sagebrush and buckwheat, which isn't succulent by any stretch of the imagination.

As for the rabbits having no shelter from the sun... depending on how long they have been raising rabbits, they may have been acclimated to the situation. If they just started breeding this year, it may have been an oversight on their part, which would likely result in high mortality. I doubt they would make the same mistake twice, since they are relying on the rabbits as a food source.

Although I certainly wouldn't recommend keeping rabbits in those conditions or on that diet, if it works for them, who am I to pass judgement? It is easy to feel superior when your economic situation is such that you can afford to feed and house your family and animals well, but for those on a subsistence level there may be no other choice.

I would hope that Animal Control doesn't have a double standard regarding confiscation of animals from people of other ethnicities, but unfortunately it may be the case. If they are recent immigrants, the standard of care provided may be the norm in their home country, but be considered unacceptable here. Additionally, they most likely are not aware of their rights, so might be easily taken advantage of.

 

[DogCatMom]

I am surprised they let you adopt the rabbit unneutered...if that is what they did.

He had already been neutered before he was made available for adoption. That's pretty much a standard in shelter practice. If an intact animal is brought in, s/he is "fixed" before being adopted out. I learned this while working as a volunteer for two humane societies in the Bay Area.<br /><br />__________ Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:34 am __________<br /><br />

In his book Storey's Guide to Raising Rabbits, Bob Bennet makes the observation that rabbits are looked on as pets in good economic times, but are considered livestock when the economy is poor. In my almost two years on this forum, I have noticed this reflected in our new members. Many people are starting meat rabbit herds as a hedge against rising food costs.

I have got to get myself a copy of that book.

As for feeding bread as a sole diet, I am sure it is not ideal, but your Mr. Chinchilla doesn't look much the worse for it, if indeed his former owners followed that protocol.

The shelter/HRS fed him from early June until last Saturday, so he's had a few months on a more balanced diet. Maybe not all the rabbits got the "bread" diet; maybe just the juveniles and not the breeding adults? If that were the case, the adults would've received somewhat more balanced nutrition.

They (the "meat breeders") likely buy their bread from "day old" bread shops, making it a very economical option. I did the same as a teenager when I was raising rodents, although the diet was supplemented with horse sweet feed and cast off vegetables that the produce man at our local grocery store saved for us. My mice and rats were amazingly healthy and sleek little creatures on that diet.

I would hesitate to believe that the owners truly were feeding only bread to their breeding rabbits. I bet they also fed castoff vegis, but due whether to a language barrier or the fact that no other feed was present at the time of the confiscation, this was their conclusion. If indeed they were feeding a large amount of fresh vegetables, the rabbits may have been able to obtain adequate water from that. My friend and I actually found that our rodents could do without a water source if given plentiful vegis high in water content.

No one I spoke to--and none of the press coverage--indicated whether the residents of the home were present during the confiscation itself. So, for example, I don't know whether they had a vegetable garden, which would be an additional way of reducing food costs. Carrots for people; carrot tops for rabbits.

Most rodents and rabbits in the wild drink very little water, mostly obtaining it from morning dew or vegetation. We have a huge population of assorted rodents, rabbits, and hares in our area, and it is dry as a bone here right now. Conventional wisdom would indicate that there should have been a mass die off, especially since there is very little green vegetation here currently- mostly sagebrush and buckwheat, which isn't succulent by any stretch of the imagination.

That explains why Mr. Chinchilla seems to be ignoring his water bowl! I pick the veggies--right now maybe 1 cup per meal, in case he hasn't been getting fresh veg's--small chard leaves, arugula leaves, dandelion leaves, arugula stems, basil leaves, parsley, and then wash them to get insects and garden crud off of them. They're still wet when they go into his bowl.

As for the rabbits having no shelter from the sun... depending on how long they have been raising rabbits, they may have been acclimated to the situation. If they just started breeding this year, it may have been an oversight on their part, which would likely result in high mortality. I doubt they would make the same mistake twice, since they are relying on the rabbits as a food source.

Although I certainly wouldn't recommend keeping rabbits in those conditions or on that diet, if it works for them, who am I to pass judgement? It is easy to feel superior when your economic situation is such that you can afford to feed and house your family and animals well, but for those on a subsistence level there may be no other choice.

Because I know you live in the Central Valley and regularly experience 108 deg F, I know you know how hot that is. The rabbit show in Napa a couple of weeks ago was very mild; in the 70s mid-day, and the two white rabbits (now I've figured out they were probably NZ) were displaying signs of heat distress. Rabbits in 108-degree heat...I suppose it's remotely possible they could acclimate, but the (to me) much higher probability lies with them suffering heat distress.

But your sentence, "It is easy to feel superior..." goes right to the heart of the matter. That is what ticks me off to no end about this confiscation and the one in the HRS newsletter several years ago. Here we had a family of 14 people living in one house. Right there I think most of us can conclude that they didn't have a lot of money. Even in California with its crazy housing prices, 14 people in one house is a LOT of being crowded unless it's a major mansion. But who with a major mansion would need to raise rabbits for food? They could purchase ready-dressed rabbit at an upscale market!

In one day, this family of 14 went from being able to eat meat a couple of times a week to probably less than once a week, maybe less than once a month.

Dividing 46 rabbits among 14 people doesn't go far when cooking, even when making stew or soup, if those rabbits are small and yield 2 to 2.5 pounds each (let's just say 1 kg as an average). Several of the rabbits are not available because they're the breeding adults; many of the juveniles are too young yet. The "available" rabbits are therefore few in number on any given week. BUT THEY ARE THERE; THEY ARE AVAILABLE. Now the family has to purchase, with its scarce money, every particle of meat they want to eat. :angry:

I would hope that Animal Control doesn't have a double standard regarding confiscation of animals from people of other ethnicities, but unfortunately it may be the case. If they are recent immigrants, the standard of care provided may be the norm in their home country, but be considered unacceptable here. Additionally, they most likely are not aware of their rights, so might be easily taken advantage of.

My feelings exactly.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Rabbits in 108-degree heat...I suppose it's remotely possible they could acclimate, but the (to me) much higher probability lies with them suffering heat distress.

I agree that it seems unlikely that they could survive those temps with no shade or cooling system. I myself suffered a catastrophic loss a few months ago.

We all happened to be gone for the day when temps reached about 109F. My growout area gets sun for part of the day, and despite having a misting system around the perimeter and shade cloth over the cages, I lost about 1/3 of the rabbits in those pens. Still, out of more than 50 rabbits, I lost 17. The tally may have gotten even higher, but Hubs arrived home around 4:30 and soaked all of the survivors with the hose.

I have since run the misters directly above the cages and have suffered no other losses thankfully.

In one day, this family of 14 went from being able to eat meat a couple of times a week to probably less than once a week, maybe less than once a month.

This is a tragedy.

I have always been an avid animal lover, and of course want animals to be treated as humanely as possible... however, too many people put animal welfare, let alone animal "rights" above people.

I myself did the same in my teens and twenties. You may recall a recent thread wherein I mentioned taking pride in my days working in pet stores? At that time, I felt that if you couldn't afford to feed your pets "premium food", you shouldn't own a pet at all.

With maturity, and especially after I had children, my attitude abruptly changed. People are more important than animals... and while I still believe animals should be raised in a clean environment with adequate food and fresh water, I am less militant in my views.

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

Question #1: Why/how would people raising rabbits as food think that "bread only" diets would make for does, at least, who could give birth to healthy kits? Or bucks who could sire healthy kits??? I also doubt whether kits raised on bread after weaning would have any bone or muscle that one associates with healthy animals. I mean, chickens being birds have hollow bones...wouldn't rabbits fed this way pretty much have osteoporosis from the get-go?

I have NEVER heard of anyone feeding bread as a primary food source for rabbits. Sure, I give mine bread from time to time...a piece of toast I didn't feel like eating went to my favorites as a treat. Breezy LOVES toast!!! But it's an occasional TREAT. I doubt anyone could actually raise a rabbit on bread alone.

Question #2: Of course, this "different from us" sentiment could have been behind the laying of information to The Law in the 46-rabbit case. But would The Law have acted so swiftly and irrevocably had the "perpetrators" not been of a different culture? Are warnings ever issued, the equivalent of traffic "fix-it" tickets? If so, there is no record in the public press that such occurred in this case. Maybe this is a state-by-state question....

Sadly from all I've seen, there is less interest in helping or educating people who have issues with their animals/husbandry/whatever...there's just a push to seize them. ESPECIALLY if they are being raised for meat.

For some reason, a lot of people equate "bred/raised for meat" as equal to "HORRENDOUS ABUSE."

Question #3: What is the experience of members of RT, either personally or of friends/neighbors/fellow rabbit-folk of your acquaintance? Is this cultural difference I observed in these cases a core source of friction in the "rescuer vs. breeder" divide? Or were the commonalities of these two, and possibly three, cases simply coincidence? (It may be that this dynamic varies across North America; I'd welcome input on that aspect of the question, too.)

I'm...not sure. I don't know too many other people around here who raise rabbits, and the few people I do know who raise/keep rabbits are not very close to me.

I will state going in that I support this specific confiscation because the rabbits were exposed to 108*F direct sun with no shade and no way of getting to shade as well as no ventilation or moving air (i.e., no fans). There were also no visible water bowls or bottles; I do not know whether there was a watering system. But having been to a rabbit show two weeks ago where rabbits in their carriers were in some stage of heat distress, I do believe the rabbits were at risk due to the heat, lack of shade, and lack of water.

This much I support.

I hesitate. Did the owners of the rabbits get a warning? Were they given a chance to rectify the situation? If the animals were in IMMEDIATE danger, were they given a chance to fix the situation and have their animals returned once their setup was acceptable?

There are plenty of people who just don't know any better. While those conditions described ARE unacceptable, I'd have to have deeper knowledge of the situation before I would agree that the rabbits needed to be seized and adopted out.

Not saying "GO GIVE MISTER CHINCHILLA BACK RIGHT NOW" just saying that there may have been zero attempts to resolve the solution in a positive way for both rabbits AND the family that owned them.

Both parties were quick to tell me, a potential adopter unknown to them, that "these rabbits were spared from becoming someone's dinner." Since I view my inability to look with equanimity at rabbit on my plate as a personal weakness, this wasn't the overwhelmingly successful tactic they hoped it would be.

This makes me a little sad and frustrated. Not at YOU of course, but them.

Q1 - the bread I'm going to guess has more to do with - 'That's what my mom used to do' than practical application. Probably they knew someone who had fed the rabbits on bread for a reason and that actual reason has been lost. BUT that's what 'mom' used to do and so it continues. There is a fellow down the road that feeds his hogs slop -and makes his slop from grocery store cast offs, Bread, Ham, hamburger, old produce - you name it and for him this is perfectly fine because that's what his 'daddy' did. For the most part the Hogs look fine but that's not how I'd feed pigs.

That is entirely possible.

If that was the case, then shame on the authorities for not EDUCATING these people and giving them a chance to make the situation right! :evil:

Q2 - I don't know about warnings vs confiscation, Case by case basis I suppose, some I agree with and some I feel that a warning and ACTUAL Education would have gone much farther! Just because you tell someone to fix something doesn't mean they Know exactly how. I think there is a place for animal 'social work' if you will... although that could go horribly wrong as well...

Oh for sure there are people who will ignore all attempts to educate/improve the situation and the animals suffer for it. But to just SEIZE SEIZE SEIZE instead of TRY to educate people...frustrating. It takes animals away from people who might actually really CARE about them and just be ignorant on proper husbandry, it floods rescues with animals which eats up their resources, and who's to say the original owner, STILL NOT KNOWING ANY BETTER, won't get more down the road and have the exact same husbandry issues?!

It's like a vicious cycle.

People are far too quick to harshly punish or assume someone is willfully cruel or negligent...nobody benefits from this.

Q3 - I agree with your thought on this - I think in many cases the rescue collective has never walked a mile in the shoes of who they rescue from and have no empathy.

VERY well said.

As for the rabbits having no shelter from the sun... depending on how long they have been raising rabbits, they may have been acclimated to the situation. If they just started breeding this year, it may have been an oversight on their part, which would likely result in high mortality. I doubt they would make the same mistake twice, since they are relying on the rabbits as a food source.

Yeah, it doesn't behoove a meat breeder to have bad husbandry. Again, some attempts at education and suggestions for improvement might have been better than just seizing the herd. Especially if this was from a family with financial issues...raising meat rabbits can be very economical, losing their entire herd like this is a terrible loss both in costs to acquire/maintain them and in terms of lost meat.

I really, really hope some family out there isn't going hungry just so a selfish first-world-crusader rescue can feel good about themselves.

Although I certainly wouldn't recommend keeping rabbits in those conditions or on that diet, if it works for them, who am I to pass judgement? It is easy to feel superior when your economic situation is such that you can afford to feed and house your family and animals well, but for those on a subsistence level there may be no other choice.

THIS.

Lately on my Facebook I've seen a lot of people jokingly referring to "first-world problems." I think we forget sometimes that there are a lot of people in THIS COUNTRY who are really, really struggling.

Like I said, I worry about that family.

I would hope that Animal Control doesn't have a double standard regarding confiscation of animals from people of other ethnicities, but unfortunately it may be the case. If they are recent immigrants, the standard of care provided may be the norm in their home country, but be considered unacceptable here. Additionally, they most likely are not aware of their rights, so might be easily taken advantage of.

I fear that as well.

I have got to get myself a copy of that book.

It's well worth it.

No one I spoke to--and none of the press coverage--indicated whether the residents of the home were present during the confiscation itself. So, for example, I don't know whether they had a vegetable garden, which would be an additional way of reducing food costs. Carrots for people; carrot tops for rabbits.

Also things that don't look like good rabbit food to rescuers might have been present, and they were just ignorant of the uses.

The other day I got to go to a farm where a few rows of corn were in the shade...they were stunted and most didn't even develop ears. The ones that did produced little pathetic three-inch corns. My farmer friend was complaining that he didn't even want to waste the fuel to harvest them...he'd burn more in fuel than all the stunted corn (or rather, mostly-bare-cornstalks!) are worth.

So my dad and a friend of his and I? We borrowed a trailer, brought along some wicked tree-trimming cutters, and we harvested those runty cornstalks by hand. Took a while but it was great!!! My dad and his buddy have a few cornstalks for autumn decoration, our farmer friend doesn't have to deal with that useless bunch of cornstalks, and I...I got I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW MUCH cornstalks for my rabbits!!!!!!!! At least a hundred pounds!!!

Am in the process of drying it now.

Last night a friend came over to help me with some wiring (need internet to do homework, needed wiring help to make internet work again) and he was confused. There isn't much corn at ALL. He didn't even know that the stalks can be eaten!!!

So there may have been fodder there on site but it was ignored as "trash" by people who -ironically- don't actually know much more about rabbits than the people who were keeping them.

Not saying this was FOR SURE the case, but...it is POSSIBLE.

That explains why Mr. Chinchilla seems to be ignoring his water bowl! I pick the veggies--right now maybe 1 cup per meal, in case he hasn't been getting fresh veg's--small chard leaves, arugula leaves, dandelion leaves, arugula stems, basil leaves, parsley, and then wash them to get insects and garden crud off of them. They're still wet when they go into his bowl.

My rabbits rarely empty their water dishes...they get a lot of "kitchen waste" and most of it is fluid-packed and wet when served. Don't worry about fluid intake if there's sufficient and normal fluid output!

In one day, this family of 14 went from being able to eat meat a couple of times a week to probably less than once a week, maybe less than once a month.

And with 14 in one family and house, I know there must be children and elderly in there, too. They are the ones hurt most in situations like this.

Dividing 46 rabbits among 14 people doesn't go far when cooking, even when making stew or soup, if those rabbits are small and yield 2 to 2.5 pounds each (let's just say 1 kg as an average). Several of the rabbits are not available because they're the breeding adults; many of the juveniles are too young yet. The "available" rabbits are therefore few in number on any given week. BUT THEY ARE THERE; THEY ARE AVAILABLE. Now the family has to purchase, with its scarce money, every particle of meat they want to eat.

Plus they are out the costs of getting/setting up their rabbits. I'm sure that's money and time they can ill afford to have taken away.

I have always been an avid animal lover, and of course want animals to be treated as humanely as possible... however, too many people put animal welfare, let alone animal "rights" above people.

The fastest way to make a self-righteous AR-oriented "rescuer" fumble for words is to ask about the people. They like to portray the owners of animals confiscated as cruel or fatally negligent...when all too often the owner simply didn't know better and needed education, or was having difficulties and needed help.

I myself did the same in my teens and twenties. You may recall a recent thread wherein I mentioned taking pride in my days working in pet stores? At that time, I felt that if you couldn't afford to feed your pets "premium food", you shouldn't own a pet at all.

I've found that being less judgemental means people are more willing to hear what I have to say. My one friend has a cat. Cat lived mostly outside. One night somehow indoor-versus-outdoor cats came up and I mentioned that with the exception of "working" cats (think "pest control barn cats"), I prefer keeping cats indoors. My friend was shocked, and he asked me why I'd never berated him for keeping his big orange fluffball outside.

I told him that his cat is healthy and clearly happy, fed well, taken care of...so what if it's not what I'd do? Who am I to judge? We talked more about it and he mentioned that I'm the first person who hasn't talked down to him like he's an idiot for keeping an outdoor cat.

The last time I was there? The cat was inside. They've been letting him inside more and more lately, and keeping him in at night. He's still going outside during the day, but...as I say, he's been an outdoor cat for his whole life (he's about fifteen now!) and has done great.

Frankly, I let the animals tell me the story. Is the animals healthy? In good flesh? Got a nice coat? Seems calm and content or at least alert? Well, whatever they're doing works so why mess with it or judge them for doing it differently?

With maturity, and especially after I had children, my attitude abruptly changed. People are more important than animals... and while I still believe animals should be raised in a clean environment with adequate food and fresh water, I am less militant in my views.

This.