Mini-project....?

[Kyle@theWintertime]

I'm not amazing when it comes to rabbit colors so I figured I'd ask here.

I'm tempted to pick up a broken colored meat mutt doe and cross her to my Champagne buck...and once she has a litter, choose one of the broken kits (if there are any...if not, back to the buck she'd go) and grow it out, breed her to a Champagne, et cetera...to get a "broken colored" Champagne.

Like...a mini project. I love broken rabbits and the Champagnes are too pretty. I can envision how lovely a Broken Champagne would be!!! And if I chose both based on color and type, they might be pretty decent, you know?

So...if I got a broken black, how many hypothetical generations would I need before reaching the color-goal? What about other broken colored rabbits? What is my best choice for a broken doe to start this little party?

 

[Bad Habit]

Well, the silvering gene seems to be recessive, so you'd need to breed back for sure, but I'm not 100% what is being silvered on the champagnes.

Maybe red or fawn?

Nevermind, google pictures failed me, lol. Either a blue or black broken, I think.

 

[Dood]

Assuming you have the 'original' Champagnes and not Brun or Creme, then you should definately get a broken black who came from black parents and only has black in her history, if she has a bit of blue it is ok but NO fawn or reds!!

I think the lovely silvering effect may be lost when you add the broken gene, and they will just look like a broken chinchilla but if you want to give it a try please keep us updated.

 

[Bad Habit]

The silver and the chinchilla genes are different, so should have a different result.

I think the pics I was looking at that I got red or fawn from were actually Bruns or Cremes.

 

[Dood]

Oh, I know they are different genes but they look quite similar except on the points and in coat texture, so if the the points are white due to the broken gene, you will just have a white and grey rabbit.

 

[Bad Habit]

I don't think they look that similar at all, though. The chin is, well, chinchilla coloured. Silver fox reminds me of arctic animals going white for winter.

 

[skysthelimit]

I agree with Dood, it will just look like a broken chin, if the Si gene needs two copies, you won't have any silvering at all. Champs and Silver Fox do not have the same degree of silvering, or at least they should not. Silver fox are black based with silver tipping.

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

Yep, Dood, just regular Champagnes.

I have to agree with Bad Habit, they look totally different to me. :shock: Like if you cropped the whole rabbit out and showed me a picture just of a patch of the coat color on a Silver Fox, a Chinchilla and a Champagne D'Argent, I think I'd pick the Champagne out pretty well. It just looks so different than the other "shaded gray" colors...it was what really caught my eye when I first saw a Champagne, LOL. I'm addicted to their lovely silvery coats and gorgeous head shape!!!

Skysthelimit? That was why I asked in the first place. I figured SOMETHING had to be recessive, so I wanted to know how many generations out I'd need to plan for to get the right coloring...and then of course after that will come hard culls to set the type, too. I'm kinda viewing this as a very long-term mini-project.

 

[Bad Habit]

Shouldn't be too long term... First gen cross broken to champagne, get a broken doe with one copy of the champagne gene(if, of course, the gods are willing!!), 2nd gen broken doe back to champagne father - you have a chance of getting broken champagne. Once you have your broken champagne(hopefully close to the breed standard), whenever you breed to a champagne, you'll get all champagnes, some broken.

And the word champagne has now lost all meaning .

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

LOL true! Though I think it might take a while to get the type right. Now to lay hands on a meat-type broken black doe.......

 

[Bad Habit]

Type will definitely take more generations to get right... but luckily you aren't dealing with two recessives!

Might be worth while to breed a broken champagne charlie. Then you wouldn't have to worry about "well this one has the right type, but isn't broken!"

 

[ohiogoatgirl]

:lol: broken champagne... first thought was actually: who is breaking all the champagne bottles!?

just kidding i've never even tasted alcohol, just amusing thought.

personally i can tell the difference in the color of the coats between champagne and the other "greys". very interesting.

 

[skysthelimit]

I can tell the difference, but keep in mind, the degree of silvering has a separate set of modifiers, than just the silvering gene. You have to get those modifiers right as well.

And the amount of blanket a broken has is important, too, not to mention what ever color genes the broken is carrying. You are definitely in for the long haul, but it should be interesting. If it comes out right, perhaps you can get a COD?

Check this out http://www.kimwhistlekingswarren.com/champagne.html

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

I don't know if they'll ever be good enough to offer up for a possible COD, but...it's nice to daydream about! I had a friend over for dinner and told her my ideas for breeding broken Champagnes, and she's all for it...especially eating the "washouts." :roll: Should have known she had an ulterior motive, LOL!!!

But seriously, as I explained to her, I've got a fondness for brokens and the Champagnes are so beautiful...it's like two great tastes that I HOPE will taste great together!

OH MY WORD those little silver dwarf bunnies are AMAZING!!! I almost want one, LOL. I just LOVE it, thank you for sharing!!!!

__________ Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:08 pm __________

So...no idea if they are available, but...I was just casually perusing some local adds for rabbits, and found one where someone has accidentally bred a few "charlies" and wants to unload them. They have a few Charlie does. Or rather, had as of the time the ads were posted...I just emailed to see if they are available still. If so...there may be a Charlie in my future. That would make the first generation a little easier...all broken, all heterozygous for silver, and then I just pick the best one of the bunch for G2.

Man oh man I hope she still has a few Charlie does.

BLACK Charlie does. Maybe it's luck that she gets some black Charlies and I need a doe to start my little mini-project.

Of course this will never take more precedence than the pure Champagnes for me...but I do love seeing beautiul rabbits, and I'm excited to have a really challenging goal to work towards.

EDITED TO ADD: The Charlie does are available still!!! I will simply choose the one that is the most round and "meaty."

Now the REAL challenge will be to NOT bring home any of their Mini Rex as well...... :shock: :mrgreen:

 

[SarahMelisse]

Bam! Broken Champange! Actually that could be a pretty catchy name. Obviously I have way too much free time this morning...

 

[ohiogoatgirl]

Bam! Broken Champange! Actually that could be a pretty catchy name. Obviously I have way too much free time this morning...

:lol: yay!

 

[Bad Habit]

Wow... it took me a long time to realize you'd just coloured that picture, that it wasn't an actual broken champagne...

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

do that again-- but use an English Spot pattern!!!!

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

SarahMelisse, my jaw literally DROPPED. Talk about helping me to visualize my end goal!!! And wow, so so pretty. Thank you for coloring that!!!!

Something else I've been pondering. From time to time, I'm sure to get solids in my "broken experiment" line, and I am wondering: can you show a rabbit without a pedigree? It might be a good idea to occasionally show the solid ones to make sure I'm getting the type right. Is that allowed?

 

[Bad Habit]

No, I don't think it is.