mastitis susceptible?

[SterlingSatin]

will a doe that has had mastitis before be likely to get it again? i had a doe that got it, she got nipped by kits that were a little too eager for milk and then got a bad scratch across the teat (with her own toenails i believe). anyway, she recovered great with penicillin procaine injections. i rebred her and she's due to kindle on the 11th. will she be prone to mastitis again? i know some breeders never rebreed does that have had mastitis, and others don't really care as long as the rabbit is completely recovered. i know theres also the issue of trying to breed strong, disease proof rabbits, but it was a pretty bad scratch, i think any doe could have gotten an infection from it, and she was strong enough to pull through. what do you think?

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I think that if it was caused by a scratch then it wasn't true mastitis, or the mastitis was a secondary infection. Did it spread to other teats, or was it limited to the injured one?

 

[SterlingSatin]

i'm pretty sure it started in the teat that the kit bit too hard, and then went to the teat with the scratch. hard to know for sure. i saw the teat that got infected first, it looked like it had been chewed a little by the kits. but i noticed hte scratch a couple days after she was diagnosed, and it looked a little infected and recent.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Hmm. Hard to say whether the bite and scratch were the results of the kits or the doe- she may have wounded herself if she was biting or scratching the area because of discomfort from the mastitis. I believe Skysthelimit read somewhere that the infection could be spread to other teats by the kits nursing on them, so it may well have transferred more easily with an open wound.

If she gets it again, I wonder if feeding her a little mint would help since that can cause them to lose their milk? I'm sure there are people here that have used it to dry does up, so if you can find out how much was fed to dry them up completely maybe you could feed her a very small amount... or bruise the leaves between your fingers and rub any affected teats with it? I am purely speculating with the above ideas, and it may be risky to try it, but then again if it works it could be a valuable addition to our "medicine cabinet".

I hope she doesn't have any trouble this time. Do you have another doe bred as backup in case of problems?

 

[SterlingSatin]

yes i bred as a backup. i always try to. the doe i bred with her is actually a newbie, this'll be her first litter, but she's a very down to earth, friendly doe and she was calm throughout the whole breeding process (even went to the buck's feeder and started eating after the 3rd covering) so she gives good indications of being a good mama. are you talking about giving mint as a preventative or only if she actually develops mastitis again?

 

[MamaSheepdog]

are you talking about giving mint as a preventative or only if she actually develops mastitis again?

I was thinking if she started showing signs of it.

Here is a link to mastitis in goats, cows and horses. It mentions pastuerella as a causative organism. :x

http://www.case-agworld.com/cAw.LUmast.html

Here is another- it mentions injury to the sphincter of the teat allowing easier infection:

http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vetext/IN ... IS101.HTML

I didn't read the full articles, but one thing I noted was that the bacteria (100s of types cause it) thrive in damp places. If the bedding in the nestbox was cleaned with greater frequency instead of waiting until day 9 or 10 you might avoid it this time.

 

[MaggieJ]

I don't recommend giving mint or age if you want her to nurse kits. It has the reputation of causing the milk supply to dry up.

This is hearsay information based on its effects on humans and partially substantiated by anecdotal information from those whose rabbits ingested these plants while nursing. I don't know of any real studies on it.

Where pregnancy and lactation are not involved, mint and sage are pleasant food items for rabbits and I believe they have tonic value as well, but I can't recommend them used in this way if there are kits still nursing.

 

[skysthelimit]

Hmm. Hard to say whether the bite and scratch were the results of the kits or the doe- she may have wounded herself if she was biting or scratching the area because of discomfort from the mastitis. I believe Skysthelimit read somewhere that the infection could be spread to other teats by the kits nursing on them, so it may well have transferred more easily with an open wound.

I will soon find out. The doe in question, this was her fourth litter, and the breeder said she had never had any problems before. The teat never got hot or changed colors, and the kits were 3 weeks and eating solids when it happened, but the milk was chunky. It never spread. I did read somewhere that it can be caused by strep and staph.

The breeder brought the buck again, but we didn't actually watch the breeding. It doesn't really matter if she took, if not, this will give her time to rest. If she took, and she gets it again, I don't know what i will do. I hate to cull her after only two litters with me, but she is about two years old now.

 

[SterlingSatin]

Maggie, yeah, i was thinking the same thing. when she got mastitis the first time i took all the kits away and immediately gave her a ton of sage and mint. it definitely helped clear out the teat IMO. i never had to express the teats. at all.
mama sheepdog, i've heard of pasturella as a cause. poop i hope thats not what caused it. i'll be careful to make sure her cage and nestbox is clean before and during kindle and nursing; if she does kindle. hopefully i'll be able to avoid a repeat.<br /><br />__________ Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:39 pm __________<br /><br />btw, i'm pretty sure the vet said something about she thought it looked like it was caused by a staph infection. i've never had any kind of respiratory disease in my herd, except when i was first starting out i lost a doe to pasturella that she contracted because of the stress of the move from the breeder to my house. but that was before i had any other rabbits, almost 3 years ago. she was the doe of a pair, the buck was fine and i had him for another 2 years then sold him.

 

[akane]

All vets I've talked to say they are susceptible to getting it again. All livestock are. The best way to prevent it is to keep things absolutely clean. If it's a metal cage sterilize it several times and if it's solid bottom clean the poop areas twice daily and change the bedding twice a week. Make sure feeders and sitting areas are not also potty areas. You can also occasionally wash the doe which is how you would handle larger livestock. My plan for my 2nd attempt with a doe who is recovering from mastitis now is to soak her belly in a bathtub with a few inches of warm water and dish soap to sterilize everything and clean any wounds every few days during the most vulnerable time. It always seems right around 10 days after kindling they start to become likely to get it if they are going to. I haven't heard of it with newborn kits yet.

Staph is everywhere. Humans get staph skin infections (looks like bad acne or may be mistaken for or may even be the cause of acne) all the time. I've got a couple round scars on my legs from staph infection that didn't even come from a wound. It was just blocked pores like acne on your face that caused a bump that allowed staph bacteria to grow. This stuff is literally everywhere like salmonella that some people try so hard and pointlessly to avoid.

 

[skysthelimit]

Is staph an across species thing? I believe I was told when I get tonsillitis that the dogs also needed to take antibiotics, because they carry strep. I thinking I carried the strep/staph in from either school, or from my dogs licking the bottom of the wire of the rabbit cage.

 

[SterlingSatin]

okay. not sure about the bathing part, this is one evil doe and i'll get killed trying to wash her. but i will make sure the cage is clean. if she gets mastitis again i will definitely NOT breed her again. i'll got sterilize everythin tomorrow

 

[MamaSheepdog]

not sure about the bathing part

Why don't you make a solution of betadine and water, put it in a spray bottle, and mist her belly from underneath the cage? It might stain her fur a bit, but I'm thinking if her nipples are sore at all misting with alcohol would send her through the roof, and peroxide will bleach her... maybe there is something else you could find at the feed store? Maybe vinegar would work too, but I don't know if that would cause a similar reaction as alcohol. :?

 

[SterlingSatin]

thats a very creative solution. i have trays in all my cages so i'll have to take the tray out to spray, but thats still less of a hassle than having to take her out and getting bit i used to have some betadine, don't anymore i don't think. i can get some so, but i do have some saline wound wash and stuff like that in my first aid kit. i wonder if that would work? seems like it would be better than nothing

 

[akane]

On a non nursing doe maybe but I wouldn't want to put anything on that I wasn't rinsing off except maybe vinegar if she's got kits. I don't know what betadine ingestion would do or if they'd even nurse.

 

[SterlingSatin]

good point akane. i may just try to make her environment as clean as possible instead of worrying about her belly specifically.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Betadine can be used to purify water for drinking, so I doubt it would be problematic in a weak dilution.