Lots of Questions

[Redbird]

So if she carries the A gene, then she is part wild rabbit?

No.
Wild "rabbits" in North America are actually a completely different species than the European rabbit that all domesticated rabbits are descended from. They are not interbreedable and cottontails are more closely related to hares and jack rabbits than your bunnys. The agouti gene is called "wild type" because it is what the colour the original, and most of the current, wild rabbits in Europe look like.So is agouti a good rabbit? I mean I like her but is there something special about agouti? Does dilute blue mean she's likely an Am. blue rabbit with agouti fur? I think I'm catching on ?!?! Even if I'm wrong it's interesting to me and I appreciate your help.

The Cal marking most likely came from the buck.

Actually your REW buck cannot carry himilayan so your opal doe must have this gene

This agouti bun came pregnant when I bought her. I only have this doe, a NZW buck, and the litter that was in her belly. I did breed her to my NZW buck when the buns where 3 weeks old (Dec 31) so this next litter will be from my boy.

__________ Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:32 pm __________

Reds and Blues? Is it possible for more colors to surface later?

Yes.
They could be hiding othrr recessives that didn't crop up in this litter. Statistically you should also get 50% females and 50% males but it is all a roll of the dice, you could get all blues next time as genetics is a game of chance.

(A,A,Ahem Forrest Gump voice) Agouti's like a box of chocolates...you never know what cha gonna get! AHAHAHA
Well maybe that's why they're special!<br /><br />__________ Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:51 pm __________<br /><br />

An agouti can carry

Agouti, self or otter (but only one or the other), Chocolate, dilute, white, chinchilla, shaded colors, the possibility for making Red or Tort, and if I am missing something Dood will fill it in.
I need to learn this rabbit lingo and google pics of all these


I've had a massive headache for the past few hours, and looking at the computer screen makes it worse, but I think I'm saying it all right.

__________ Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:15 pm __________

With the information you have, it looks like AaB_CcddEe,

so she's A-agouti,
with two blue babies she carries a-self
Opal is a B-black based agouti
but no sign of b-chocolate
Opal is a C-full color variety
as opposed to c-white the masking gene (or chl the shaded gene)
Opal is also dd- dilute
she is E-full extension or she would have been a different color
but carries e- to produce Reds.

:explanation: thats amazing. I will read this 100 more times. Part of me is going "where can I learn more about this?", and the other part is going "don't ask that you're not that smart! just breed the rabbit, and eat the rabbit." haha

 

[Dood]

Agouti is just a colour pattern but there is some evidence that steel colour gene could improve growth rate and/or carcass quality.

Crash course on the genotype of rabbit colours - rabbit-genotypes-list-t19367.html

Once the litter fathered by your white NZ is furred up we'll know if the doe has himilayan / Cali marked or REW

 

[skysthelimit]

Agoutis are only special if you like them. Quite a few people don't because they hide so many genes and in some breeds, it's a hard color/pattern to get right.<br /><br />__________ Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:06 pm __________<br /><br />The American Rabbit Breeders Association recognizes 46(?) rabbit breeds. Many of those breeds share the same colors, while some breeds only come in a handful of colors, and some only one. Being blue has nothing to do with being an American Blue breed of rabbit, there are quite a few breeds that share that color. (just like all white doesn't mean NZ rabbits). Some breed names are color names (chinchilla for one).

 

[GBov]

Agoutis are only special if you like them. Quite a few people don't because they hide so many genes and in some breeds, it's a hard color/pattern to get right.

__________ Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:06 pm __________

The American Rabbit Breeders Association recognizes 46(?) rabbit breeds. Many of those breeds share the same colors, while some breeds only come in a handful of colors, and some only one. Being blue has nothing to do with being an American Blue breed of rabbit, there are quite a few breeds that share that color. (just like all white doesn't mean NZ rabbits). Some breed names are color names (chinchilla for one).

That is just because it isn't really fun if it doesn't do you head in!

 

[mystang89]

So I did my best to use sound logic and explained we can't keep the little one unless we're going to breed with em, and we can't breed it because it's the runt of the litter. We can't keep the weak genetics, we want the good ones. needless to say... sadface.
An hour later, seemingly out of nowhere, "I'M NOT EATING ANY RABBITS!, so be prepared to cook 2 dinners every night!" whawhat!
Yesterday she comes home all excited and says " I have a co-worker that wants the little rabbit!"
I say "Oh really!" I'm thinking jeez now she's trying to give our meat away! lol
then

HAHAHAHAH -- That worked out about as well as I expected it to. Don't worry, I've had the same luck with my wife. Logic + wife = failure. Anyway, if she wanted rabbits to sell, I'd definitely suggest investing in Silver Fox. If you're just looking for fur I'd say any white colors and if she wants some that will sell like hot cakes just based on the fact they are rabbits...mmmm...Angora's or Lion Heads. Good luck with the wife and I hope the best for you.<br /><br />__________ Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:13 pm __________<br /><br />Also, as far as breeding a doe with your NZ buck you originally had that's fine but, imho, its also ok to inbreed. You'll just be finding the genetic quirks quicker but for meat it really doesn't matter. For instance, I have 4 sisters that are all pregnant by their 3 brothers. Also have 1 SF doe that I've been trying to get pregnant by the SF buck sibling and been trying to get the SF mom pregnant by the SF son. As long as the genetic line you have is strong you should most get good rabbits. There will always be those odd ones that come out though. Just my thoughts.

 

[Redbird]

Those sliver fox rabbits look so cool!

Red Urine
I was just out with the rabbits and noticed the agouti doe has red corners in her cage and some red/orange pee on the edge of the deflector.
I started to take pics and flip out, then did a google search and read through some older threads here, now I'm calm. thanks guys lol
I just want to clarify that this doe is 2 weeks pregnant, is she still fine? babies ok? she's acting totally normal.

and she does have white fur on her belly! (prev. convo) She's always so hunkered down when I pet her that I just now saw it while trying to peek at her backside.

Feeding
they haven't had any carrots or any beta c though. Just Nutrena pellets, alfalfa hay, and fresh broccoli leaves. (Is this too much Ca? I can buy timothy hay next time if you recommend. Timothy pellets avail too but for horses - are those ok for rabbits?)

 

[skysthelimit]

Red urine pretty much happens, along with yellow and orange.
Watch the alfafa hay with alfalfa based pellets. Too much alfalfa is not a good thing. Broccoli can cause gas, keep portions small.

You can try the Tim pellets, my rabbits would not eat horse pellets.

 

[MatSuAK]

Husband says it tastes like wild turkey Which was lucky for me, convinced him on this whole rabbitosis thing lol. He really missed turkey hunting after moving to Alaska. We use the loin & back legs like chicken breast and dark meat. Boil the meat off the front legs, ribs, and such. Use this "shredded" meat in anything that requires ground meat. Makes great stock for soup too :cauldron: We were both impressed just how much meat we could get off each rabbit.

 

[GBov]

Husband says it tastes like wild turkey Which was lucky for me, convinced him on this whole rabbitosis thing lol. He really missed turkey hunting after moving to Alaska. We use the loin & back legs like chicken breast and dark meat. Boil the meat off the front legs, ribs, and such. Use this "shredded" meat in anything that requires ground meat. Makes great stock for soup too :cauldron: We were both impressed just how much meat we could get off each rabbit.

Us too! One rabbit feed the six of us WITH leftovers AND stock for later meals.

Rabbit stock with a bit of garlic and ginger cooked in, with slivered mushrooms and chopped chives floating on top - and a few crispy fried onions in the bowl - makes a nice Japanese onion soup!

 

[DogCatMom]

...

as stated, I mostly just want to raise them for meat. However since the babies have come, the wife is totally backing out on the rabbits. (she wasn't 100% anyway). first shes like "we can't kill this one. its too little, i'm keeping it. it's mine." we can't just keep rabbits for no reason! only breeders and eaters. So I did my best to use sound logic and explained we can't keep the little one unless we're going to breed with em, and we can't breed it because it's the runt of the litter. We can't keep the weak genetics, we want the good ones. needless to say... sadface .
An hour later, seemingly out of nowhere, "I'M NOT EATING ANY RABBITS!, so be prepared to cook 2 dinners every night!" whawhat!
Yesterday she comes home all excited and says " I have a co-worker that wants the little rabbit!"
I say "Oh really!" I'm thinking jeez now she's trying to give our meat away! lol
then she casually drops the kicker "she's a vegan." hahaha

Colors/breeds - So the wife is more interested in money than meat, and would like to sell as many live rabbits as possible before they get old enough to butcher.
now to someone who buys a rabbit for a pet, snake food, or to eat themselves even though its sold as snake food - color/breed probably won't matter much.
If a person was trying to source a rabbit to breed with, then they would likely want a specific breed like Cali or NZ, which got me thinking maybe I should source a NZ white doe to go with my NZ white buck, then I would be able to offer purebred bunnies to this type of customer. Then one doe would deliver whites consistently (that could be sold as whites), and the other would have colors and whites. (this is most likely what I'll do, but I'll wait for your replies)

I've tried very hard to stay out of this discussion, since I don't actually raise rabbits. But there are some points which haven't yet been responded to, so here goes....

1) Be very careful in placing rabbits as pets if in fact this becomes part of your plan. I've only been reading this forum since last August (yes, August 2013), but have already read very distressing stories of what can happen when buyers take "cute widdle bunnies" home as pets without having a clue on rabbit care. Or if they out-and-out mislead the breeder. Also be aware that, in many states, baby bunnies must be 8 weeks old to be sold, so you're on the hook for that long in supporting them.

2) White rabbits are very difficult to place as pets. I don't know why, but they are. Several rabbit rescues in northern California had a "special offer" last fall for anyone who'd adopt a solid white rabbit (REW or BEW): adoption fee was cut in half, several months of hay supplied, etc. The Sacramento rabbit rescue is still featuring REWs here. I myself didn't want a solid white rabbit (unless it was an Angora, but I'm odd that way--I LIKE brushing my animals), so I passed these offers by. For the 5,265 Arizona rabbits already in rescue--that is, looking for homes, see this Petfinder search.

3) If your DW is now declaring that she's a vegan *and* she won't eat bunnies *and* she wants to sell bunnies as pets, read some of the safety plans that breeders here have in place so their true location (i.e., where the rabbits are) won't be found out. (This also helps prevent inadvertent transmission of disease to your in-place rabbits.) No one wants ARAs (Animal Rights Activists) coming onto the property in the dead of night and "liberating" safe, healthy rabbits. This has happened. So has unjustified calling down of the law as a means of harassment on legal operations. If she persists in these lines of action, be sure that you're operating within the letter of the law for your own safety and that each rabbit cage is locked in such a way that DW cannot open it (maybe a matched set of combination locks?).

Again, this information is available elsewhere on this forum. Occasionally (i.e., rarely) the law has come in and been justified. But 99 times out of 100, it's a matter of harassment, pure and simple.

Best wishes for it all to work out well....

 

[Redbird]

yeah that's true I wouldn't know how much a person would know about rabbits.(I have lots to learn myself) I'll bring that up to the wife. When I bought my original trio, the seller gave me a big list of do's and don'ts specific to our climate, and told me about this website.

the less rabbits sold as pets, the better imo haha. my wife isn't vegan, her coworker that wanted the rabbit is vegan.

thank you for the link too. unfortunately only 61 are within 100 miles and 12/12 that I viewed were spayed/neutered.
plus a rescue spot like that would probably throw me out. haha


I came up with more questions woooo!
I keep reading about "check the liver, check the liver". when it's time, what am I looking for?
Is this the kind of thing I should just ask when it happens?

Does anyone use the fur? what do you like to make with it?

 

[3mina]

You want no spots in the liver, these generally indicate coccidiosis or other issues. I check liver and lungs both, they give the first signs of illness in your herd along with an idea of what your dealing with.
I love tanning rabbit, it comes out beautifully with less work than thicker heavier hides.
You can make all sorts of things with the hide from gloves/mittens to hats, scarves, & blankets. I'm saving Rex hides for a blanket. I haven't decided what I want to do with my Foxes yet.

 

[DogCatMom]

yeah that's true I wouldn't know how much a person would know about rabbits.(I have lots to learn myself) I'll bring that up to the wife. When I bought my original trio, the seller gave me a big list of do's and don'ts specific to our climate, and told me about this website.

the less rabbits sold as pets, the better imo haha. my wife isn't vegan, her coworker that wanted the rabbit is vegan.

thank you for the link too. unfortunately only 61 are within 100 miles and 12/12 that I viewed were spayed/neutered.
plus a rescue spot like that would probably throw me out. haha


I came up with more questions woooo!
I keep reading about "check the liver, check the liver". when it's time, what am I looking for?
Is this the kind of thing I should just ask when it happens?

Does anyone use the fur? what do you like to make with it?

--If part of your response is in answer to my post, I provided the search link to give you help (if you want it!) against the idea of raising rabbits as pets. If there are already over 5,000 rabbits in Arizona looking for homes, and over half of them are white (judging from my random spot-check), there needs to be a back-up plan for your bunnies. As to breedable adults, you will NEVER, but NEVER, acquire an intact, breedable rabbit from a rescue group. That wasn't in any way part of my motivation. I'm trying to prevent the needless addition of more (esp. white) bunnies needing homes in Arizona. or California. or anywhere!

--Re. "check the liver": scan the forum for threads that say "PHOTOS--GRAPHIC." Those are usually post-mortem, anatomical photographs of potentially diseased or "died of unknown cause" rabbits.

--There's a subsection of the forum for Fur questions (Rabbits for Fur)--how to store untanned skins, how to tan them, etc.

I still recommend a safety plan, since your wife's co-worker and would-be "bunny savior" is a vegan. Most ARAs are of the Militant Vegan persuasion; who knows whether this person is Militant or simply Vegan? But once she finds out where the rabbits are, there's no going back. :|

 

[katiebear]

hi Redbird, I'm in Arizona too, just a little north of Phoenix been at this a yearhttp://rabbittalk.com/posting.php?m ... 4&t=19562#. Just posted my first litter for sale, they are right ..I only had one call the first week so far. My bunns are mutts this litter (my first) are Flemish x new Zealand beautiful bunns but most are white.No bites on the gray or black does. Not sure why,but there ya go.....gonna send this litter to freezer camp, sure hope I can convince my family that they are for eating.going toward the larger breeds,phasing out my "new Zealands "got a couple of giant mix bucks and a doe.Raising buns in AZ.is pretty difficult in the summer,... make sure you have lots of ice bottles, shade cloth ,even a heavy duty fan. I I've only lost one to the heat, before I got any the owner of the local feed store said to me "no one raises rabbits here it's too hard with the heat stick to chickens".lol...summer is a bear...but, don't give up.Please don't be like the guy I got my first buns from,he was a lair, my New Zealands are not my Flemish maybe, doesn't really matter the money is spent,but the taste still remains....mutts are mutts,I love my bunnys and would not trade this experience for anything, even the $100 that I paid twice for false Flemish giants.My last three were $8 dollars each,so it all works out.Any way keep in touch this is a good forum.....lots of Blessings to you and yours!!!!!!!!